Eagles Wings
New member
How does one start calling if they do not have to choose anything for Christ?
Your words not mine.
Just trying to get the gist of your thought.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Your words not mine.
Just trying to get the gist of your thought.
glorydaz
Well-known member
If Christ wasn't the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe, then we would still be sinning, too. So it doesn't seem like what you're saying is actually the case.
Ask Mr. Religion
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We would still be sinning?
We would still be sinning?
AMR
We would still be sinning?
I am not following what you are saying. Can you unpack this a wee bit more?
AMR
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Unbelievers Deny Their Terrible State of Affairs
Unbelievers Deny Their Terrible State of Affairs
Robert, your burning house analogy is flawed in that it misunderstands the inclinations of the person whose house is on fire. The person whose house is on fire denies the very fact of the flames about them (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14).
Fire now put out. All is well on its way to full restoration. To God goes the glory!
AMR
Unbelievers Deny Their Terrible State of Affairs
Yes, we all have free will, the ability to choose according to our greatest inclinations at the moment we so choose.
Robert, your burning house analogy is flawed in that it misunderstands the inclinations of the person whose house is on fire. The person whose house is on fire denies the very fact of the flames about them (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14).
Your house is on fire.
No, it is not.
Yes it is, and this is why it is indeed on fire...etc....etc....
---God intervenes... Eze. 36:26 ----
Yikes, my house is indeed on fire. I believe, help me in my unbelief!
No, it is not.
Yes it is, and this is why it is indeed on fire...etc....etc....
---God intervenes... Eze. 36:26 ----
Yikes, my house is indeed on fire. I believe, help me in my unbelief!
Fire now put out. All is well on its way to full restoration. To God goes the glory!
AMR
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Works Based Salvation
Works Based Salvation
Hinduism - work on one's yoga to reach Brahman's moksha
Buddhism - work on the Noble Eightfold Path to reach Nirvana
Islam - work on points for good deeds to tip the scales of Allah's judgment in one's favor to reach Paradise
Judaism - work on keeping the halakha to reach Olam Ha-Ba
Romanism - work Rome's sacramental treadmill to reach Heaven, or at least Purgatory and then Heaven eventually
Jehovah Witnesses - work to keep membership in the Watchtower Society, God's channel, to reach paradise on earth
Avoid keeping company with proponents of works based salvation.
AMR
Works Based Salvation
Sadly, salvation by works seems to be correct, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint, Proverbs 14:12; Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-5, notwithstanding, of course.
Hinduism - work on one's yoga to reach Brahman's moksha
Buddhism - work on the Noble Eightfold Path to reach Nirvana
Islam - work on points for good deeds to tip the scales of Allah's judgment in one's favor to reach Paradise
Judaism - work on keeping the halakha to reach Olam Ha-Ba
Romanism - work Rome's sacramental treadmill to reach Heaven, or at least Purgatory and then Heaven eventually
Jehovah Witnesses - work to keep membership in the Watchtower Society, God's channel, to reach paradise on earth
Avoid keeping company with proponents of works based salvation.
AMR
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According to you, if someone knocks on your door and tells you that your house is on fire you just slam the door in their face and ignore the whole thing, because you don't believe them.
This is why Paul said that they are without an excuse, Romans 1:18-22.
God's Truth
New member
Sadly, salvation by works seems to be correct, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint, Proverbs 14:12; Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-5, notwithstanding, of course.
Hinduism - work on one's yoga to reach Brahman's moksha
Buddhism - work on the Noble Eightfold Path to reach Nirvana
Islam - work on points for good deeds to tip the scales of Allah's judgment in one's favor to reach Paradise
Judaism - work on keeping the halakha to reach Olam Ha-Ba
Romanism - work Rome's sacramental treadmill to reach Heaven, or at least Purgatory and then Heaven eventually
Jehovah Witnesses - work to keep membership in the Watchtower Society, God's channel, to reach paradise on earth
Avoid keeping company with proponents of works based salvation.
AMR
The ONLY thing that separates God's true believers from all those you mentioned, and more---are those who actually OBEY Jesus' teachings.
Eagles Wings
New member
Please tell me how to call on Christ without having to choose Christ.
To use your fire analogy:
I call for the fire department and when they come I choose not to allow them to spray water on the fire?
Yet, they have come and will put out the fire for all who call them?
All that have called on Christ have also chosen Christ by their own free will to be their savior.
I didnt give an interpretation of my own, i quoted Gods word on it.
Ephesians 1:4 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,…
If you dont believe that, your argument is with God, not me. Ive even asked you numerous times to break it down and show us HOW it doesnt mean what it says there, and you wont do it.
fishrovmen
Active member
Better 40 years late than not at all.
You have misinterpreted Ephesians 1:4.
God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.
God does not choose individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Jesus comes into the world as humanities representative. All that Jesus does and all that he is, was for our salvation and justification, Romans 3:26. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Not for just some, but for all.
I am not about to embrace your Satanic cult.
Show where i interpreted it at all, by posting it. Then we can start from there. Also please take the verse itself and break it down, showing how it doesnt mean what it says- teach us something.
fishrovmen
Active member
So now you changed your mind again, that the "we" in Ephesians is "all of humanity"?
Nanja
Well-known member
Pate, you keep reiterating the same responses over and over again 2 Cor. 4:3-4. :yawn:
glorydaz
Well-known member
What? I was as clear as a bell. :chuckle:
Sorry about that, AMR. I guess my point is that it isn't that we quit sinning after we were saved, it's that we are no longer under the law. What makes us different than the unbelievers is that we are in Christ and His righteousness is accounted to us.
When we were unbelievers, we didn't always sin any more than as believers we always do righteousness....which is, I believe, what you were saying.
Is that any better, or have I just muddied the waters even more?
God's Truth
New member
What? I was as clear as a bell. :chuckle:
Sorry about that, AMR. I guess my point is that it isn't that we quit sinning after we were saved, it's that we are no longer under the law. What makes us different than the unbelievers is that we are in Christ and His righteousness is accounted to us.
When we were unbelievers, we didn't always sin any more than as believers we always do righteousness....which is, I believe, what you were saying.
Is that any better, or have I just muddied the waters even more?
What?! It IS about stop sinning. Jesus died and gave us the Helper so that we can stop sinning.
Then why is it you are not in heaven?
Can it be that you are still in your Adamic body that is sinful and must be changed? 1 Corinthians 15:52.
God's Truth
New member
I am in heaven.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
John 6:56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
John 6:56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.