Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

God's Truth

God's Truth

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Yes, the Gospel is for the believing ones and only the believing ones, whether they be Calvinists or not. :AMR:

AMR
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No, not Robert Pate's way, and no, not Calvin's way. It is Jesus' way.

Jesus' Way says to believe and obey.

Robert Pate's way is, "I will believe but will not obey.

Calvin's way is, "I will not believe and I will not obey, not until you save me first.


You both are condemned.
 
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Robert Pate

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God's Truth said:
No, not Robert Pate's way, and no, not Calvin's way. It is Jesus' way.

Jesus' Way says to believe and obey.

Robert Pate's way is, "I will believe but will not obey.

Calvin's way is, "I will not believe and I will not obey, not until you save me first.


You both are condemned.
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Paul never taught that works or obedience saved. What he did teach is that we are saved and justified by faith, Romans 4:5.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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Banned
God's Truth said:
No, not Robert Pate's way, and no, not Calvin's way. It is Jesus' way.

Jesus' Way says to believe and obey.

Robert Pate's way is, "I will believe but will not obey.

Calvin's way is, "I will not believe and I will not obey, not until you save me first.


You both are condemned.
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Believe and obey
not
obey and believe

Pate's way is obey and believe like you. Both obeyed on something they have no clue about. Unregenerates knows nothing
 
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Robert Pate

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God's way is salvation by grace through faith, but because you still have your Adamic body you will not be able to please God, because you are still a sinner, a saved sinner, but still a sinner. Please don't make Paul a liar. Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.
 
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Robert Pate

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Angel4Truth said:
False. You keep saying that, then say not all are saved, which is it. If all are chosen, all are saved and this is a lie:

Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Ill believe Him, because:
Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


John 5:40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

all are not saved.
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Its not God's fault if unbelievers go to hell, its their fault.

"I have set before you this day life and death, choose life" Duet. 30:19

God thinks that you can choose.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Nang said:
I really appreciate you posting what is bolded above!

But I need to ask how you interpret Ephesians 1:4 as explaining "God chose us" according to His foreknowledge of "what we will choose."

This verse says nothing about God seeing into the future and choosing souls in Christ, according to what they would DO in their lifetimes.

Rather the verse clearly teaches three things:

1. God chose some to be "holy and blameless."

2. So that they would be fit for "adoption as His sons."

3. According to "the good pleasure of HIS WILL."

God Himself alone can change our hearts to be holy and blameless for only God can enable sinners to repent and serve righteousness rather than sin.

I believe Ephesians 1:4 is the Gospel message of unconditional Election, and unconditional salvation, that alone brings all glory to the name of Jesus Christ.

I believe Ephesians 1:4 reveals the purpose, accomplishment, and sovereign will of God only.

No mention from God of any human conditions or necessity of the exercise of the free will of men, in order to accomplish His purposes and good will. None.

BTW, your sig is powerful! :up:
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The plan is predestined, people are not predestined according to the Calvinistic way.

God chooses those who do right and fear Him.

That is to whom the message has been sent.

Can a heifer become a sheep?

Yes.

A heifer can change to a sheep.

All it takes is repentance.

Calvinism is false because there is no scripture anywhere that says God saves unbelievers.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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Choosing According To One's Inclinations

Choosing According To One's Inclinations

Robert Pate said:
God thinks that you can choose.
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Yes, He does, Robert!

We can choose according to our greatest inclinations at the moment we so choose. The non-believer, fallen in Adam, is wholly inclined to only sin more or sin less (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). The unbeliever cannot not sin.

Mercifully, God has marked out a great multitude no man can number (Rev. 7:9) to be changed from this terrible state of affairs, in that God will give them a new heart of flesh, replacing their hearts of stone, such that they will then not not believe (Eze. 36:26). To God goes all the glory!

AMR
 
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Robert Pate

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Yes, He does, Robert!

We can choose according to our greatest inclinations at the moment we so choose. The non-believer, fallen in Adam, is wholly inclined to only sin more or sin less (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). The unbeliever cannot not sin.

Mercifully, God has marked out a great multitude no man can number (Rev. 7:9) to be changed from this terrible state of affairs, in that God will give them a new heart of flesh, replacing their hearts of stone, such that they will then not not believe (Eze. 36:26). To God goes all the glory!

AMR
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Your Calvinist God is unjust and is a sinner. If you continue to have a perverted view of the nature and character of God you will never see heaven.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
God's Truth said:
The plan is predestined, people are not predestined according to the Calvinistic way.

God chooses those who do right and fear Him.

That is to whom the message has been sent.

Can a heifer become a sheep?

Yes.

A heifer can change to a sheep.

All it takes is repentance.

Calvinism is false because there is no scripture anywhere that says God saves unbelievers.
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:noway:
 
Eagles Wings

Eagles Wings

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Yes, He does, Robert!

We can choose according to our greatest inclinations at the moment we so choose. The non-believer, fallen in Adam, is wholly inclined to only sin more or sin less (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). The unbeliever cannot not sin.

Mercifully, God has marked out a great multitude no man can number (Rev. 7:9) to be changed from this terrible state of affairs, in that God will give them a new heart of flesh, replacing their hearts of stone, such that they will then not not believe (Eze. 36:26). To God goes all the glory!

AMR
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I don't think this can be said enough, AMR, because Pate almost daily declares so few to be true believers.

We, on the other hand, rejoice at the generous nature of a benevolent God who has chosen many for the benefit of Christ.
 
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Robert Pate

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Eagles Wings said:
I don't think this can be said enough, AMR, because Pate almost daily declares so few to be true believers.

We, on the other hand, rejoice at the generous nature of a benevolent God who promises to choose many for the benefit of Christ.
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Your Calvinist God is unjust and is a sinner like you.

No one has to choose anything for Christ. Christ redeems all that come to him to be saved.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

If you want to be saved you had better start calling.
 
Eagles Wings

Eagles Wings

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Robert Pate said:
Your Calvinist God is unjust and is a sinner like you.

No one has to choose anything for Christ. Christ redeems all that come to him to be saved.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

If you want to be saved you had better start calling.
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If one does not have to choose, which you frequently refer to as free will to accept or reject Christ at one's whim, how does one start calling?
 
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Robert Pate

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Eagles Wings said:
If one does not have to choose, which you frequently refer to as free will to accept or reject Christ at one's whim, how does one start calling?
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Everyone has a free will. If you don't have a free will then you are some sort of a robot.

If some one knocked on your front door and said your house is on fire, what would you do?
 
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