Assisted Suicides Soar in Switzerland

[Eagles Wings]

Say what? Did He not foretell his death to his disciples? Obviously then it could have been avoided.

Have you thoroughly read the words of Christ in the Holy Scriptures, particularly when He talks of His relationship with His Father?

Ultimately the death of Christ fulfills the will of the Godhead and gives glory to God. . John 13:31-32

All true Christians believe this, Eeset.

 

[Nang]

Say what? Did He not foretell his death to his disciples? Obviously then it could have been avoided.

Not the point being discussed . . .

The death of Jesus Christ was not suicide. Jesus Christ was executed (murdered) wrongly.

If Christ, in all His divine powers, had chosen to escape this death, then the human race would suffer total destruction. Not a soul would live to bring glory to God.

Jesus Christ submitted to death, not to escape death, but to vicariously/substitutionally save many children of God from their deserved death.

IOW's, suicide of sinners does not come close to the holy sacrifice of the death of The Son, provided by God.

Suicide is not sacrifice.

Sacrifice is not suicide.

 

[glassjester]

You're about as accurate and objective on this as you seem to be with the notion that people simply put their pets down out of convenience as oppose to humanely alleviating their suffering. Any loving pet owner will tell you it's not done out of anything like.

How is that inaccurate? Is assisted suicide not "mercy killing" ?
You pity the man, so you help put him out of his misery. Right?

Like I said, "Kill the poor bastard."

 

[glassjester]

Both culminate in the same result, so you're rather arguing semantics there.

And if ends justified means, you'd have an argument with that statement.
But they don't.

 

[glassjester]

Clearly indeed.

:up:

But I have.

And I've had pets that I didn't kill. That died at home.

And I've had sick and old family members that could no longer eat or walk.
I've watched dying people. Who hasn't? I've spent time with them, and held their hands. And told them I loved them.

And you know what? I never once had the urge to kill them.

 

[MrDante]

Is a terminally ill man worth talking out of suicide?

I spent many years working in crisis intervention and dealt with more suicides than i can count. No one talks anyone out of suicide. What is does is an intervention that removes the suicidal individual from the method and the opportunity for committing suicide and then confining that individual in a safe location while emergency medical attention is provided.

Get real.

The entire concept of killing a sick, suicidal man (simply because he's sick and suicidal) can be summed up by the words, "Kill the poor bastard."

Suicidal implies that the individual is mentally ill. Part of the process of physician assisted suicide is to evaluate the individual for mental illness and to treat any found.

No one is saying "kill the poor bastard" at least no one honest is saying that.


let me once again direct your attention to the Colorado law and the attending physician responsibilities:

he Colorado law states: "25-48-106. Attending physician responsibilities. (1) THE ATTENDING PHYSICIAN SHALL:

...

(d) REFER THE INDIVIDUAL TO A CONSULTING PHYSICIAN FOR MEDICAL CONFIRMATION OF THE
DIAGNOSIS AND PROGNOSIS AND FOR A DETERMINATION OF WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL IS
MENTALLY CAPABLE, IS MAKING AN INFORMED DECISION, AND ACTING VOLUNTARILY;
"(e) PROVIDE FULL, INDIVIDUAL-CENTERED DISCLOSURES TO ENSURE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL IS
MAKING AN INFORMED DECISION BY DISCUSSING WITH THE INDIVIDUAL:
(I) HIS OR HER MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS AND PROGNOSIS OF SIX MONTHS OR LESS;
(II) THE FEASIBLE ALTERNATIVES OR ADDITIONAL TREATMENT OPPORTUNITIES, INCLUDING
COMFORT CARE, PALLIATIVE CARE, HOSPICE CARE, AND PAIN CONTROL;
(III) THE POTENTIAL RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH TAKING THE MEDICAL AID-IN-DYING MEDICATION TO
BE PRESCRIBED;
(IV) THE PROBABLE RESULT OF TAKING THE MEDICAL AID-IN-DYING MEDICATION TO BE
PRESCRIBED."

 

[MrDante]

Nobody in their right mind says a soldier who jumped on a grenade, or a firefighter running into a burning building committed suicide.

Technically that is exactly what they did.

 

[Arthur Brain]

How is that inaccurate? Is assisted suicide not "mercy killing" ?
You pity the man, so you help put him out of his misery. Right?

Like I said, "Kill the poor bastard."

In a sense yes it is, although also at the persons own request and without the "kill the poor bastard" as you seem to want to interject as motif.

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

And if ends justified means, you'd have an argument with that statement.
But they don't.

So a person shouldn't have any means of ending their terminal suffering until they 'naturally' draw their last breath then, right? Is this the be all and end all of your argument?

 

[Arthur Brain]

But I have.

And I've had pets that I didn't kill. That died at home.

And I've had sick and old family members that could no longer eat or walk.
I've watched dying people. Who hasn't? I've spent time with them, and held their hands. And told them I loved them.

And you know what? I never once had the urge to kill them.

Nobody who loves has the "urge to kill" so you really want to get rid of that deliberately loaded crap out of your argument frankly.

 

[quip]

And you know what? I never once had the urge to kill them.

That's commendable ....though what remains relevant is their urge to die.. not your urges.

 

[Crucible]

I recall this movie, 'The Life of David Gale', which was about two death penalty abolitionists who come up with a plan in which one commits suicide and makes it look like murder. The other would be framed for it, and new evidence would arise of his innocence after he was executed.

One of them was terminally ill and the other was a former philosophy professor whose life got ruined by a false rape accusation. Pretty good and thought provoking, I think all those folks with conundrums about life and death, voluntary or involuntary, should watch it

 

[shagster01]

But I have.

And I've had pets that I didn't kill. That died at home.

And I've had sick and old family members that could no longer eat or walk.
I've watched dying people. Who hasn't? I've spent time with them, and held their hands. And told them I loved them.

And you know what? I never once had the urge to kill them.

Did any of them ask you to kill them? Because your urges are irrelevent.

 

[shagster01]

Abortion and euthanasia are indeed part of the same "culture of death."

What about DNR orders? If you can revive someone with CPR but they have DNR orders, do you do CPR anyway? Or are they "not worth saving?"

 

[glassjester]

I spent many years working in crisis intervention and dealt with more suicides than i can count. No one talks anyone out of suicide. What is does is an intervention that removes the suicidal individual from the method and the opportunity for committing suicide and then confining that individual in a safe location while emergency medical attention is provided.

Alright, being "talked out of it" is not proper phrasing.
I'll rephrase the question.

Is a sick person's life worth saving?

Suicidal implies that the individual is mentally ill.

How do you define suicidal?

 

[glassjester]

Technically that is exactly what they did.

No. They didn't deliberately take action for the purpose of ending their own life.

We can assume that if they could have accomplished the same goal without ending their own lives, they would have done so. Death was not their goal.

 

[glassjester]

So a person shouldn't have any means of ending their terminal suffering until they 'naturally' draw their last breath then, right? Is this the be all and end all of your argument?

That would be impossible. There will always be a means to that end.

But that does not mean the state should encourage or allow it.

 

[glassjester]

That's commendable ....though what remains relevant is their urge to die.. not your urges.

Should I "assist" someone to commit suicide if they aren't terminally ill? Why or why not?

 

[glassjester]

What about DNR orders? If you can revive someone with CPR but they have DNR orders, do you do CPR anyway? Or are they "not worth saving?"

Do you honestly see no difference between someone dying naturally, and someone being deliberately killed?

 

[glassjester]

Say what? Did He not foretell his death to his disciples? Obviously then it could have been avoided.

Jesus didn't take His own life. And you know it.