ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
he's kinda stupid that way, ain't he? :kookoo:
Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
- Start date
he's kinda stupid that way, ain't he? :kookoo:
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Mat6:12 Eph4:32 Col3:13
The parable of the unforgiving servant.
I just think that forgiving those who do not repent, is part of being a Christian. :idunno: That's not the same as partaking of the bread and of the cup together with them, though. :freak: They ought to be excommunicated if they don't repent. Church policy isn't the same as personal policy.
The parable of the unforgiving servant.
I just think that forgiving those who do not repent, is part of being a Christian. :idunno: That's not the same as partaking of the bread and of the cup together with them, though. :freak: They ought to be excommunicated if they don't repent. Church policy isn't the same as personal policy.
PureX
Well-known member
Yes, I do. Because forgiveness with demands and strings is not forgiveness. It's just manipulation pretending to be forgiveness. And God is not fooled, even if you are.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
genuineoriginal
New member
You are not thinking things through.
If you came home to find your wife in bed having sex with another man, would you forgive her with no demands and no strings?
You wouldn't expect her to ask for forgiveness or to say she wouldn't do it again?
What if she said that she was going to continue having sex with other men and that you just need to learn to live with it.
Would you tell her that it is not a problem, you forgive her, and she can keep doing it as long as she wants?
That last scenario is what the man in the OP did to his church.
He told them that they could expect him to continue having sex with other men, and he expected them to accept that and tell him it was not a problem, even though it is a problem.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Eventually, Christ willing, yes. That's the idea.
But I still wouldn't eat Christ's body and drink his blood with her. :sibbie:
But I still wouldn't eat Christ's body and drink his blood with her. :sibbie:
:think: Im pretty sure you dont know the pastor there, much less "all" of the members there, which would include the mans parents.
Quite a hypocritical judgment you just made there...
yep, its one thing to say one is struggling with homosexuality and admit its practice is a sin, and quite another to say one is intent on openly embracing it and living it.
And yet, Jesus still said 'go and sin no more'.
You mean like the 2000 year old Jew named Jesus?
Or did that 2000 year old Jew think homosexuality was cool? Then make your case that they are confused and wrong. Accusing them of self-righteousness and bad motives does nothing productive and you don't know their hearts anyway.
I will grant that homosexuality has become an easy and popular target in much of Christianity. However, this isn't really about his sin 'stinking' more than theirs. It's about him embracing the homosexual lifestyle. You'd have a stronger point if he was trying to turn from homosexuality and they still shunned him. Then I'd be with you.
And do you not think there's even a little bit of irony in you accusing those people of being arrogant and self-righteous? You just declare them wrong and accuse them of seeking to harm this guy without any thought that maybe you are wrong. That maybe they aren't seeking to harm this guy. That maybe they are right about what Jesus would want. That doesn't seem like you are doing the exact same thing that you are accusing them of doing?
Even if all sin is about is motive, you still don't know that they are acting out of bad motives.
Except this guy doesn't even think he needs forgiveness. Who knows, he might be just as offended and upset if they 'forgave' him for something he didn't feel he needs forgiveness for. Forgiveness implies that the person feels they did something wrong.
And really, what would the church even be forgiving him for? Him being a homosexual doesn't wrong the church. Even if Settles was repentant it wouldn't be a situation in which the church would need to forgive him. The issue isn't about the church forgiving him or not. The issue is Settles openly embracing something the church doesn't stand for. Go ahead and make your case that the church shouldn't include the sinfulness of homosexuality in its identity but talking about them forgiving him seems to be off base.
:shocked:
:thumb: I would agree also they were wrong if that was the case, but it isnt in this case.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
:first:
PureX
Well-known member
Did he really? We don't know. But it would seem an odd thing for Jesus to say, knowing that it's an impossible command for any human to obey.
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality one way or another. And that's because he taught that sin was a state of the heart and mind (spirit), not a condition of our genitals. And his church had him murdered for that.
My comment was perfectly clear. All you have to do is read it.
The problem is that you insist on thinking that homosexuality is a sin, when it is not, as I have already explained several times. The sin does not take place in the genitalia. It takes place in the heart and mind, when we seek to exploit and abuse others for our own gain, pleasure, or satisfaction. Anyone can use (abuse) sexuality as an expression of sin, but the sexuality does NOT DEFINE THE SIN. The MOTIVATION defines the sin. You can't seem to grasp this because you are so stuck in your idolatry of ancient Jewish religious texts that express the pre-Christian idea that sin is the breaking of some ancient Jewish religious law.
Their whole region is based on authoritarianism. It's all about harming those who dare to deny their imagined "authority". That's the whole purpose of the shunning: to punish the homo for not kow-towing to the imagined authority of their 2000 year old Jewish religious text. They call themselves Christians, but they worship ancient Judaism. The religion that murdered Jesus precisely because he illuminated the difference between divine love within the human spirit, and the emptiness of religious dogma.
I don't have to know. I am only their accuser. Not their judge.
Being a homosexual is not a sin. So he does not need to be forgiven for that.
Who knows, he might sprout wings and fly away like an angel, too.
You get the point.
Most of the sins we commit are unconscious. So it's not likely that we will know them all, specifically. Yet we do know that we live most of our lives being selfish, self-centered, and in fear of not getting what we want. So we do know that we often act on these motives even when we are unaware of them.
Yet we can know we need forgiveness, even when we don't exactly know what for. Once we understand that the sin is in the motive, and not the act, we realize we don't need to know every sinful act to know that we have sinned. And often, there is no act, yet our desire to commit such an act was sin enough.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
lifeisgood
New member
No, Jesus did not specifically mention the act of homosexuality however, He was in accord with the Old Testament, which condemns homosexuality and Jesus reaffirmed that marriage is between a man and a woman as God preordained.
• Matthew 10:15, "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city."
• Matthew 19:4-6, "And He answered and said, 'Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'”
• Matt. 19:9, “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
• Mark 10:11-12, "And He said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; 12 and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.'”
• John 5:46-47, “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
Did Jesus condemn homosexuality? Sure, He did, by reaffirming heterosexuality as God’s norm and the God-ordained definition of marriage.
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Have you ever heard of Walt Heyer?
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/govt11/tranny_bill/testimony/walt_heyer.html
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Now for the good news. Once we understand the correct and contextual biblical position in this matter, we also discover that homosexuality is not the unforgivable sin. There is hope, healing, forgiveness and salvation for anyone caught in the grips of any sinful lifestyle. Jesus extends his love and forgiveness to anyone, the Bible says, if one would repent (turn from) their sin and call upon Jesus Christ as Lord. Just like the woman caught in the act of adultery, you can hear Jesus say, “Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”
http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/did-jesus-condemn-homosexuality/
genuineoriginal
New member
You seem to think homosexuality comes from the genitalia.
It does not.
Homosexuality comes from the heart and the mind that seeks to use and abuse sexuality for a person's own gain, pleasure, and satisfaction.
That is why it is a sin.
You can't seem to grasp this because you are so hung up on the fact that this was recognized 3000 years ago and deemed so destructive to society that the perpetrators of this sin had to be put to death to keep the sin (abusing sexuality for a person's own gain, pleasure, and satisfaction) from spreading.
Other manifestations of this same sin (abusing sexuality for a person's own gain, pleasure, and satisfaction) are incest, rape, bestiality, and adultery, each of which also were given the death penalty.
genuineoriginal
New member
No, the laws were not given to promote authoritarianism.
The laws were given to preserve society.
The penalties in the law were put there to keep people from harming the society.
PureX
Well-known member
Jesus was a Jew. We are not. So the fact that Jesus honored his Jewish religious heritage has nothing to do with us. I'm sure Jesus followed lots of ancient Jewish religious proscriptions, like not eating pork, and not associating with women while on their periods. And a hundred other religious laws like that.
But unless we are Jews, there is no reason for us to be ascribing to those ancient religious dictums, today. Even modern Jews no longer follow many of them.
So claiming that Jesus wants us to consider homosexuality an abomination because he was a Jew, 2000 years ago, is a VERY weak argument. Especially when you don't ascribe to many of those ancient religious biases, prejudices, and laws anymore, YOURSELF. You just pick out the ones that suit your prejudices.
That's a very weak and reaching argument, too. Because he DIDN'T condemn homosexuality. And you have to invent some silly inverse sophistry to try and claim that he did.
It's sad that you feel you need to work so hard just to maintain such a bias.
PureX
Well-known member
But homosexuality does not do that simply by being homosexuality. Therefor, homosexuality is not a sin simply because it's homosexual.
PureX
Well-known member
I am not a Jew, and I am not living in the ancient world. So I don't really care about how the ancient Jews arrived at their laws. And I am not the least bit interested in "preserving their society". Their society is long gone. Even Jews today don't follow most of those ancient proscriptions, anymore.
Interestingly though, research on pork shows it to be potentially very harmful to one's health.
Also shelled creatures concentrate neurotoxins in their systems.
Also studies done of females for cervical cancer showed that Jewish women had statistically much lower rates than non-Jewish women.
The likely conclusion that circumcision played an important role in the difference.
The Bible has a way of being proven correct by historians, archaeologists, anthropologists, linguists and forensic disciplines in a variety of fields.