Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’

[Ktoyou]

I'm simply saying it's unChristlike. You can follow whatever beliefs you want. But calling one's self a Christian doesn't make one a Christian.

agree

And neither does following 2000 year old Jewish biases against homosexuality.

How is this related to the first part? Why assume anyone against homosexuality is following a Jewish bias? I do not like homos and it has nothing to do with having a Jewish bias

 

[lifeisgood]

Empathy is a good practice. I try to imagine how I would feel if I had to suppress my love for my husband and for myself to love another woman. I flat out couldn't do it. The idea is repugnant to me.
Could it be that a person of homosexual orientation feels the same way? I don't know.
But I do know that I will not be unkind or unloving to my neighbor.
Unless he lets his dog bark all night... or lets his property become an eyesore... or behaves in a vulgar or violent way... or is abusive to animals and other persons.
Ya know, stuff like that.

I agree with you.

and let me add to your list or put the car music so high that my windows vibrate and I cannot hear anything inside my house.

 

[PureX]

How is this related to the first part? Why assume anyone against homosexuality is following a Jewish bias? I do not like homos and it has nothing to do with having a Jewish bias

Many Christians try to justify their bias against homosexuals by claiming that God wants them to be biased, according to some 2000 year old Jewish scripture, which expresses the bias of that time and place. They believe an anti-homosexual bias and Christianity are part-and-parcel. And they are not.

Your own bias against homosexuals is your own shortcoming. It has nothing to do with your being a Christian or not, except that it will continue to be a spiritual stumbling block for you as long as you allow yourself to continue indulging it. And it will become a stumbling block for others if you use your bias to do them harm in the name of Christ.

 

[bybee]

I agree with you.

and let me add to your list or put the car music so high that my windows vibrate and I cannot hear anything inside my house.

Right! and the dog hides behind you because she thinks a tornado has struck!

 

[ok doser]

Many Christians try to justify their bias against homosexuals by claiming that God wants them to be biased, according to some 2000 year old Jewish scripture, which expresses the bias of that time and place. They believe an anti-homosexual bias and Christianity are part-and-parcel. And they are not.

Paul sez otherwise :idunno:

 

[PureX]

How is it unChristlike?
Did he not say, go and sin no more? Call people hypocrites, fools, dogs, and specify who would go to hell? You call the church since the Apostles nothing but Jewish biases? Make up your own unbiblical rules on morality and think they are superior? Wow, how can you survive that rarified air you live in?

Are you so weak-minded that you can't recognize what's right and wrong unless some 2000 year old Jewish text tells you? If so, you are seriously lacking in empathy, humility, and spiritual discernment, which will seriously impede your ability to understand and reflect the love and forgiveness of Christ to your fellow humans. Any fool can call themselves a Christian, and then join a theology club church where the 'insiders' sit around and pat themselves on the back and tell each other how much more righteous they are than those dirty sinners they kicked out, according to their ancient Jewish religious texts. While none of it makes any one of them a Christian.

 

[brewmama]

Paul sez otherwise :idunno:

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to ok doser again"

 

[brewmama]

Are you so weak-minded that you can't recognize what's right and wrong unless some 2000 year old Jewish text tells you? If so, you are seriously lacking in empathy, humility, and spiritual discernment, which will seriously impede your ability to understand and reflect the love and forgiveness of Christ to your fellow humans. Any fool can call themselves a Christian, and then join a theology club church where the 'insiders' sit around and pat themselves on the back and tell each other how much more righteous they are than those dirty sinners they kicked out, according to their ancient Jewish religious texts. While none of it makes any one of them a Christian.

Wow, pressed some buttons for you, huh?
Since you are so all-knowing, what DOES make one a Christian?

Wouldn't it be to know and follow Jesus, which is what my Church has done for 2000 years? Are you saying all the saints and martyrs over the past millenia were not really Christians, since they followed apostolic doctrine? Just what are you trying to say? Other than that you think I'm not a Christian.

 

[ok doser]

Since you are so all-knowing, what DOES make one a Christian?

according to purexcrement?

forgiving everybody no matter what they do or declare the intent to do

 

[brewmama]

according to purexcrement?

forgiving everybody no matter what they do or declare the intent to do

Except for those that disagree with him, of course. Or go by historical Christian doctrines.

 

[PureX]

Wow, pressed some buttons for you, huh?
Since you are so all-knowing, what DOES make one a Christian?

Wouldn't it be to know and follow Jesus, which is what my Church has done for 2000 years? Are you saying all the saints and martyrs over the past millenia were not really Christians, since they followed apostolic doctrine? Just what are you trying to say? Other than that you think I'm not a Christian.

Jesus owned no buildings; he travelled around healing people physically and spiritually through divine love, forgiveness, and faith until his own church 'insiders' had him murdered for daring to expose their spiritually empty and self-aggrandizing religiosity.

And now days we have another building full of church 'insiders' trying to 'punish the sinner' for daring to have pointed out their own spiritually empty, self-aggrandizing religiosity. The only difference is that this church now calls itself "Christian".

 

[ok doser]

Jesus owned no buildings; he travelled around healing people physically and spiritually through divine love, forgiveness, and faith ....

and what did He say to do with those who would not hear His message?

come on - you know this one

i know you don't like it, because it's judgmental and you want to hang onto your imagined version of Jesus being non--judgmental

i'll give you a hint - it has to do with shaking the dust from your feet as a testimony

 

[brewmama]

Jesus owned no buildings; he travelled around healing people physically and spiritually through divine love, forgiveness, and faith until his own church 'insiders' had him murdered for daring to expose their spiritually empty and self-aggrandizing religiosity.

And now days we have another building full of church 'insiders' trying to 'punish the sinner' for daring to have pointed out their own spiritually empty, self-aggrandizing religiosity. The only difference is that this church now calls itself "Christian".

:bang:

I can see you are not really interested in an actual conversation where you actually respond to what other people say.
So, never mind! Good luck with your self-made religion and your obvious love of fellow man.

 

[kmoney]

I think Jesus cares why we do what we do. "Sin" is the state of heart and mind that motivates us to hurt ourselves and each other. I think too many Christians like to focus on sinful "acts", so they can avoid facing the real sin, which is what motivates the act, and thereby avoid focusing on their own motivations.

I don't fully agree with this, but it's really irrelevant. The point is that Jesus cares about sin, however you define it. People do sometimes focus too much on other people's sins instead of their own. But you have a picture of Jesus that's too one-sided in the other direction.

I'm simply pointing out that these "churches" are not expressions of Christ. They expressions of their own narrow political and religious bias. There is no reason that people have to gather together under a mutually adhered to dogma. They could gather together for the purpose of sharing love, and forgiveness, and to express kindness and generosity to each other, and to the community at large.

My point was that the church is being motivated by their desire to punish people who won't adhere to their particular religious dogma. And that's a sin. Because that's a desire to hurt someone else based on their own selfish and ego-centric desires. It's a sin they could have avoided if they could have humbly realized that their beliefs about homosexuality are just their beliefs, and are not direct mandates from the mind of God. But they were so full of their own presumed self-righteousness that this never occurred to them. And it probably never will.

Says you. You are very good at projection. Do you have the humility to admit that perhaps you are wrong about them? That it's possible that they think they are truly doing the right thing, that denying him membership is the best thing for him because condoning his lifestyle would just help him along a path that they think is a sinful and destructive?

Also, it does hurt people to shun them. We are a social species, and we all want to be accepted and appreciated by our fellow humans. And that's exactly why the church chose not to do it. They wanted to cause hurt. They wanted to "punish the sinner", as if they were gods, themselves.

People want to be accepted and appreciated but this guy's homosexuality wasn't going to be accepted or appreciated regardless of his membership status.

I'm open to the idea that the church's decision wasn't the best one, but you don't seem able to make that point without projecting all sorts of bad motives on them. :nono:

 

[PureX]

I don't fully agree with this, but it's really irrelevant. The point is that Jesus cares about sin, however you define it. People do sometimes focus too much on other people's sins instead of their own. But you have a picture of Jesus that's too one-sided in the other direction.

No, my "picture of Jesus" is being derived from the overall essence of his message, not the legalistic religious minutia. Jesus was murdered by his own Jewish "church". Yet modern Christians are all tripping over themselves trying to adhere to every jot and tittle of ancient Jewish religious dogma. And in the process they are still murdering Jesus in their hearts and minds, just as their ancient Jewish mentors did 2000 years ago.

I don't care that some 2000 year old Jews didn't like homosexuality, and thought it was a sin. Their opinions on the matter mean nothing to me. They have long since shown their true colors and I'm more interested in the essential message of Christ: that God's love acting in us and through us to each other, will heal us and save us from ourselves. And that message goes for homosexuals and sinners of any kind. Of which we are ALL active members.

Says you. You are very good at projection. Do you have the humility to admit that perhaps you are wrong about them? That it's possible that they think they are truly doing the right thing, that denying him membership is the best thing for him because condoning his lifestyle would just help him along a path that they think is a sinful and destructive?

I have no doubt that they think they are doing the right thing. But that only shows me how sick and confused the worship of religious righteousness makes people. And how wrong. Nothing kills the spirit of God's love and forgiveness in the heart and mind like the illusion of self-righteousness.

People want to be accepted and appreciated but this guy's homosexuality wasn't going to be accepted or appreciated regardless of his membership status.

Of course. Because these church members all believe their sins don't stink as much as his. They are hypocrites, and they are wrong. They blame him because he refuses to "repent" his homosexuality, while they refuse to even acknowledge their own arrogance, self-righteousness, bigotry, and dishonesty.

I'm open to the idea that the church's decision wasn't the best one, but you don't seem able to make that point without projecting all sorts of bad motives on them. :nono:

"Good people" are full of bad motives. That's what sin is: "bad motive". And the first step to being a Christian, is to acknowledge that we are riddled with this sin. And to acknowledge that we need constant grace and forgiveness, because of it.

And once we know we need constant forgiveness for ourselves, we will see that so does everyone else. And that as we forgive them, we will find ourselves forgiven, in turn.

But this church didn't want to forgive the homo, because they don't really believe they need to be forgiven, themselves. Because they the think their sins don't stink as much, or that they don't really sin at all. They haven't even taken the first step of being Christian. Yet they pose themselves as if they are the very hand of God's righteousness.

What a pack of Pharisees, feeding their own righteousness with the blood of their condemned and outcast sinners!

 

[PureX]

:bang:

I can see you are not really interested in an actual conversation where you actually respond to what other people say.
So, never mind! Good luck with your self-made religion and your obvious love of fellow man.

There is no point in conversing with people who are determined not to listen. It's a waste of everyone's time, and it almost immediately devolves into silly insults.

If you have any honest questions, or comments, I'll respond as honestly as I can, in turn. But I've been around the TOL block on and off for many years and I don't waste energy on other people's willful stupidity.

 

[ok doser]

What a pack of Pharisees, feeding their own righteousness with the blood of their condemned and outcast sinners!

 

[ok doser]

There is no point in conversing with people who are determined not to listen.

i bought a button for you

Spoiler

I don't waste energy on other people's willful stupidity.

and a t-shirt

Spoiler

 

[genuineoriginal]

Nothing kills the spirit of God's love and forgiveness in the heart and mind like the illusion of self-righteousness.

They blame him because he refuses to "repent" his homosexuality

He has to repent of his homosexuality before he can be forgiven.

Luke 17:4 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.​

But this church didn't want to forgive the homo, because they don't really believe they need to be forgiven, themselves.

You seem to think that unrepentant sinners should be forgiven for refusing to repent.

 

[serpentdove]

[We send them to your church.] "...No need..."

Why do the

men in your church linger: wear dresses? :smokie:

See:

Roman Catholicism