An Open Invitation to Civil Discussion

[patrick jane]

The Eucharist
This verse does not negate the things that Jesus spoke before this particular dialogue.

We can even see in verse 59 that Jesus had spoken this many times before, denoting a passage of time between verse 60 and the preceding passage.

I am not trying to nitpick with your response, but I want to comb out any misinformation or falsehoods.

This is one such falsehood or misinformation. No one who is educated in Catholic doctrine believes that the box which holds the host is the Body of Christ.

Correct. All of this is accurate.

If the Host was transformed into the Body of Christ, would one not want to adore it? Just hypothetically.

Okay, so you would argue that the Lord's Supper is symbolic, correct? (Once I have your confirmation, I will extrapolate on this point)

Let us consider John 6:34-58. Jesus says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no inheritance with me." Then the people murmured and pondered "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Jesus did not correct them, but rather further emphasized what He stated before. If they were misunderstanding Him, why did He not correct them. When the multitude left Him, He did not call them back, due to a clear misunderstanding/misinterpretation of what He had declared.

Anytime that Jesus was speaking symbolically in John's Gospel Account, John denotes the symbolism by revealing it as such. For example, John 2:21. So, why is no such clarifying verse or denotation given in this instance. It plays out in the same manner, yet in John 6, no symbolic clarify9ing is provided by John, despite occurring every other time Jesus spoke in Parable or symbolically.


So, how does Jesus reside in you?

1 Corinthians 11:23-29 KJV - [FONT=&quot]For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Luke 22:14-20 KJV - And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.[/FONT]

 

[God's Truth]

I was a baptists/fundamentalist before I converted to Catholicism.

So, let us progress in our discussion. I would like to offer a challenge to both of us: not to use any of Paul's writings as support for our claims/positions.

hahahaha Okay, I have been debating the madists here for years and I have mostly only used what Paul says. I think though that you should not try to limit the use of any scripture, as they do.

Paul is just as divinely inspired as any other author in the New Testament. However, I feel that many of Paul's words need support from other books to paint a clearer picture. For example, the faith alone believers use Ephesians 2:9 as support for their doctrine, despite the verse having nothing to do with faith alone. Now, you and I easily refute this claim of support with James 2:24. We agree that all of the authors of the New Testament were equally inspired and infallible, no? So, I propose that we restrict ourselves to those other than Paul.

I do not agree that we should leave out any scripture, but as you wish.

Now, if you disagree with this, then that is fine. I just suggested it, due to many debates in other threads being over correct interpretation of various Pauline passages (due to the fact that his writings require outside support or clarification). That is why I suggested it.

Back to our discussion....

 

[God's Truth]

The Eucharist
scriptures to show that there is not real presence in the bread and wine.John 6:60-64.
This verse does not negate the things that Jesus spoke before this particular dialogue.

What? I do not ever nullify anything that Jesus says.

We can even see in verse 59 that Jesus had spoken this many times before, denoting a passage of time between verse 60 and the preceding passage.

I am not sure what you mean by saying that.

I am not trying to nitpick with your response, but I want to comb out any misinformation or falsehoods.

This is one such falsehood or misinformation. No one who is educated in Catholic doctrine believes that the box which holds the host is the Body of Christ.

You are badly mistaken about your denomination.
Please get more information on the beliefs of Catholics.
If you are not a true Catholic, then you need to state that. The Catholic church does so believe that their priest turns the wine and wafer into the real presence of the blood and flesh of Christ; in fact, they believe only their priests can turn the wine and wafer into the real presence of the body and blood of Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

There is even a service called Adoration, whereas parishioners can come to church, sit, and pray near the box of wafers, that box that they believe has the real body of Jesus. Catholics believe they can turn wine into the blood of Jesus.

Catholics believe that the Lord’s Supper is a sacrifice, a sacrifice every Mass where the priest turns the wafers into Jesus’ body. Catholics believe they are experiencing a miracle when the priest does this. No wonder Catholic teachings are that missing a Mass is sin.
Correct. All of this is accurate.

If the Host was transformed into the Body of Christ, would one not want to adore it? Just hypothetically.

No, not hypothetically. The Catholics believe they have really done such a thing.

Okay, so you would argue that the Lord's Supper is symbolic, correct? (Once I have your confirmation, I will extrapolate on this point)

I have made that clear, no?

Let us consider John 6:34-58. Jesus says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no inheritance with me." Then the people murmured and pondered "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Jesus did not correct them, but rather further emphasized what He stated before. If they were misunderstanding Him, why did He not correct them. When the multitude left Him, He did not call them back, due to a clear misunderstanding/misinterpretation of what He had declared.

They were quick to right him off. You however, are quick to believe you really eat the flesh of Jesus, and, this proves you are a bigger believer. However, you forget that Jesus explained it to those who stayed, and Jesus explained that it was SPIRITUAL.

Anytime that Jesus was speaking symbolically in John's Gospel Account, John denotes the symbolism by revealing it as such. For example, John 2:21. So, why is no such clarifying verse or denotation given in this instance. It plays out in the same manner, yet in John 6, no symbolic clarify9ing is provided by John, despite occurring every other time Jesus spoke in Parable or symbolically.

You are missing it.

So, how does Jesus reside in you?

Oh I can’t tell you how much I love this question.
I will post to you my answer in the next post.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is the Word of God, John 1:1. The Word became flesh, John 1:14. Jesus’ words are life, John 6:63. Jesus’ body is the bread, the bread from heaven, John 6:33. Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.“

If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever, John 6:51. This bread is Jesus’ flesh, which he will give for the life of the world, John 6:53.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

When we believe in Jesus’ shed blood, we come into the blood covenant with God, Mark 14:24. We believe and this believing is as drinking his blood.

To obey Jesus, to do what the bread from heaven says, this is eating, this is eating the bread from heaven, and it is eating his flesh. Obeying Jesus’ word is equivalent to eating his flesh.

Luke 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread.

Jesus says for us to pray, give us each day our daily bread. That is having Jesus every day, his words, his teachings. We are to eat Jesus every day, which is to obey every day.

John 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Did you hear what Jesus said? Jesus says he who “feeds on this bread.” That is not a onetime thing. We are to eat every day. We are to obey every day.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

When we are hungry, hungry for God’s truth, we come to Jesus. Jesus says, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.” John 6:51

When we come to Jesus, believe, and obey, Jesus gives us water to drink that is, Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, John 4:10; 14; John 7:38; 39.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” The seal of approval is the Holy Spirit.

When we celebrate the Lord’s Supper, it is in remembrance to Jesus dying for us.
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.1 Corinthians 11:26.

Read what Jesus' disciples said to him...

John 4:31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."


32 But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33 Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Did you read that? Jesus says his food is to DO the will of him who sent me and to FINISH HIS WORK.

We are to do God's will. God's will is that we obey Jesus' teachings.

Now, that proves we eat the flesh of Jesus when we do what Jesus says to do.

That is how we eat the bread from heaven, the bread of life.

We have to eat every day. We have to obey every day.

 

[meshak]

Well done, GT

 

[jsanford108]

1 Corinthians 11:23-29 KJV - [FONT="]For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]25 [/B][/FONT]After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]27 [/B][/FONT]Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]29 [/B][/FONT]For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Luke 22:14-20 KJV - [FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT]And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]16 [/B][/FONT]For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]18 [/B][/FONT]For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.[/FONT]

Excellent parallels of Scripture.

If something is merely symbol, why would one be eating and drinking to one's damnation, if taking unworthily?

 

[God's Truth]

Excellent parallels of Scripture.

If something is merely symbol, why would one be eating and drinking to one's damnation, if taking unworthily?

Because people didn't treat the gathering as anything holy, they behaved as if Jesus was not in their life; they ate before the poor, and they got drunk.

 

[jsanford108]

hahahaha Okay, I have been debating the madists here for years and I have mostly only used what Paul says. I think though that you should not try to limit the use of any scripture, as they do.

I am not trying to limit the use of Scripture; I am merely pointing out that many rely on Paul as an easy way to defend a position, regardless of their interpretations being correct. I am just trying to limit any confusion or misinterpretation.

What? I do not ever nullify anything that Jesus says.

That was never my accusation. I am not saying that you negated anything; rather, that John 6:60-64 does not explain away literal interpretation of John 6:34-58.

I am not sure what you mean by saying that.

I am saying that taking verse 59 in context illustrates a passage of some time between various teachings regarding the consuming of Christ's Body/Blood, and His explanation in verses 60-64.

Do you see how that is determined? Verse 59 indicates that Jesus had taught this same message multiple times, yet never provided the extrapolation found in verses 60-64.

You are badly mistaken about your denomination.
Please get more information on the beliefs of Catholics.
If you are not a true Catholic, then you need to state that. The Catholic church does so believe that their priest turns the wine and wafer into the real presence of the blood and flesh of Christ; in fact, they believe only their priests can turn the wine and wafer into the real presence of the body and blood of Christ.

I think I must have misunderstood what you were saying then. When you said " A special box holds these wafers, the supposed body of Christ," I took this to mean that you inferred that the box was the supposed Body of Christ.

If I am mistaken, I apologize. If I am not, then my original point stands true, as no Catholic doctrine teaches that the box is the Body in any capacity.

No, not hypothetically. The Catholics believe they have really done such a thing.

Yes, I know this. And I agree with this. I am proposing the hypothetical to you: If the Host was the literal Body, would you adore it? 'Tis a simple yes or no. I have no ill intent by asking, and am not trying to trick you into any capacity; I just wanted to know your honest answer.


[REGARDING SYMBOLISM: I have made that clear, no?[/QUOTE]Okay, so when you discuss a meal, usually, you consider bread and water to be the essential foods for life. As does Jesus. As does the Apostles. Etc. So, why does Jesus use Bread and Blood as elements in John 6? If He was being symbolic, why not say His Body and Water? After all, it would be further supported at the Crucifixion, since water sprayed from His pierced side. Yet, we see Jesus uses Body and Blood; clear Hebrew indicators of physical consumption of flesh. Thus, the sustaining of the multitude's interpretation of Jesus offering His physical Body/Blood for their consumption, in order to inherit eternal life. This troubled them. Jesus, rather than correcting them, or clarifying symbolic interpretation, repeated His exact phrasing again and again. He even let them leave Him, murmuring about this that He had said. Why would He not correct a misinterpretation?

They were quick to right him off. You however, are quick to believe you really eat the flesh of Jesus, and, this proves you are a bigger believer. However, you forget that Jesus explained it to those who stayed, and Jesus explained that it was SPIRITUAL.

The only ones who stayed were the Apostles. And again, verse 59 shows that for some time Jesus had been giving the same message, with no clarification.

It is easy to relate verses 60 on back to Jesus speaking about His spiritual food and water, back in John 4.

You are missing it.

Please, feel free to explain where I am missing John the Author clarifying Jesus' symbolic meaning about consuming Jesus' Body/Blood.

Jesus is the Word of God, John 1:1. The Word became flesh, John 1:14. Jesus’ words are life, John 6:63. Jesus’ body is the bread, the bread from heaven, John 6:33. Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.“

If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever, John 6:51. This bread is Jesus’ flesh, which he will give for the life of the world, John 6:53.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

When we believe in Jesus’ shed blood, we come into the blood covenant with God, Mark 14:24. We believe and this believing is as drinking his blood.

To obey Jesus, to do what the bread from heaven says, this is eating, this is eating the bread from heaven, and it is eating his flesh. Obeying Jesus’ word is equivalent to eating his flesh.

Luke 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread.

Jesus says for us to pray, give us each day our daily bread. That is having Jesus every day, his words, his teachings. We are to eat Jesus every day, which is to obey every day.

John 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Did you hear what Jesus said? Jesus says he who “feeds on this bread.” That is not a onetime thing. We are to eat every day. We are to obey every day.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

When we are hungry, hungry for God’s truth, we come to Jesus. Jesus says, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.” John 6:51

When we come to Jesus, believe, and obey, Jesus gives us water to drink that is, Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, John 4:10; 14; John 7:38; 39.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” The seal of approval is the Holy Spirit.

When we celebrate the Lord’s Supper, it is in remembrance to Jesus dying for us.
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.1 Corinthians 11:26.

Read what Jesus' disciples said to him...

John 4:31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."


32 But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33 Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Did you read that? Jesus says his food is to DO the will of him who sent me and to FINISH HIS WORK.

We are to do God's will. God's will is that we obey Jesus' teachings.

Now, that proves we eat the flesh of Jesus when we do what Jesus says to do.

That is how we eat the bread from heaven, the bread of life.

We have to eat every day. We have to obey every day.

I will address this part later, as there are a couple errors within. I apologize for another delay.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not trying to limit the use of Scripture; I am merely pointing out that many rely on Paul as an easy way to defend a position, regardless of their interpretations being correct. I am just trying to limit any confusion or misinterpretation.


That was never my accusation. I am not saying that you negated anything; rather, that John 6:60-64 does not explain away literal interpretation of John 6:34-58.

I am saying that taking verse 59 in context illustrates a passage of some time between various teachings regarding the consuming of Christ's Body/Blood, and His explanation in verses 60-64.

Do you see how that is determined? Verse 59 indicates that Jesus had taught this same message multiple times, yet never provided the extrapolation found in verses 60-64.

Not trusting Jesus and leaving him was what was discovered when some of his disciples left him. There were Jews that God cut off and hardened so that they could not hear Jesus and be saved. Jesus came first for the Jews who already belonged to God by faith. They were God's and now they had to go through Jesus to remain Gods. Jesus said when he is lifted up then all could come to him to be saved; but while he walked the earth, he came for the sheep. Not all Jews were sheep. The old law was not based on faith, but the new law that Jesus would preach was based on faith.

I think I must have misunderstood what you were saying then. When you said " A special box holds these wafers, the supposed body of Christ," I took this to mean that you inferred that the box was the supposed Body of Christ.

No, the wafers in the box.

If I am mistaken, I apologize. If I am not, then my original point stands true, as no Catholic doctrine teaches that the box is the Body in any capacity.

I would have never of guessed that you thought I was saying the Catholics thought a box was the body of Christ.

Yes, I know this. And I agree with this. I am proposing the hypothetical to you: If the Host was the literal Body, would you adore it? 'Tis a simple yes or no. I have no ill intent by asking, and am not trying to trick you into any capacity; I just wanted to know your honest answer.

It is not the literal body of Christ.
Jesus died once.
Catholics believe that the Lord’s Supper is a sacrifice, a sacrifice every Mass where the priest turns the wafers into Jesus’ body. Catholics believe they are experiencing a miracle when the priest does this. However, read what the word of God says. The word of God tells us that Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb. When Jesus offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Jesus is not in a wafer, he is at the right hand of the Father.

[REGARDING SYMBOLISM: I have made that clear, no? Okay, so when you discuss a meal, usually, you consider bread and water to be the essential foods for life. As does Jesus. As does the Apostles. Etc. So, why does Jesus use Bread and Blood as elements in John 6? If He was being symbolic, why not say His Body and Water? After all, it would be further supported at the Crucifixion, since water sprayed from His pierced side.

Water is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.

Yet, we see Jesus uses Body and Blood; clear Hebrew indicators of physical consumption of flesh. Thus, the sustaining of the multitude's interpretation of Jesus offering His physical Body/Blood for their consumption, in order to inherit eternal life. This troubled them. Jesus, rather than correcting them, or clarifying symbolic interpretation, repeated His exact phrasing again and again. He even let them leave Him, murmuring about this that He had said. Why would He not correct a misinterpretation? And again, verse 59 shows that for some time Jesus had been giving the same message, with no clarification.

It is easy to relate verses 60 on back to Jesus speaking about His spiritual food and water, back in John 4.

Please, feel free to explain where I am missing John the Author clarifying Jesus' symbolic meaning about consuming Jesus' Body/Blood.

He said it was SPIRITUAL.
Here Jesus explains that it is Spiritual and not literal flesh and blood for them to eat.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

Jesus explained to his disciples that it was spiritual. The ones who walked away rejected it.

I will address this part later, as there are a couple errors within. I apologize for another delay.

If anything, I am glad to tell such a kind person as yourself my beliefs. I have things to take care of tomorrow and probably won't be on much.

 

[patrick jane]

Well done, GT

I like 'em medium rare.

 

[God's Truth]

We have to obey Jesus.

I like to ask Catholics how they obey Jesus' commands.

Tell me, how Catholics obey this:

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Matthew 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Catholics call their brothers 'father', and their 'fathers' call each other 'father'.

I will tell you how I obey Jesus: I do not call my brothers in Christ 'father'.

Your turn; tell me how Catholics obey that command from Jesus.


Now, tell me how Catholics obey this when it comes to infants:

Mark 1:15
"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Catholics baptize infants who cannot repent and believe.

I will tell you how I obey Jesus: I got baptized when I could repent and believe.

Your turn.


Tell me how do Catholics obey this:

Acts 10:25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.

Acts 10:26 But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."

Catholics bow to their pope.

I do not bow to any other Christian.

Your turn.


How do Catholics obey this:

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Catholics pray to Mary and their other "saints".

I pray only to Jesus.

Your turn.


How do Catholics obey this:

Leviticus 26:1 "'You must not make for yourselves idols, so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar, and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down before it, for I am the LORD your God.

Catholics bow to their statues.

I do not bow to any statue.

Your turn.

How do Catholics obey?

 

[meshak]

You are so good GT

keep up the good work

 

[marhig]

Jesus is the Word of God, John 1:1. The Word became flesh, John 1:14. Jesus’ words are life, John 6:63. Jesus’ body is the bread, the bread from heaven, John 6:33. Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.“

If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever, John 6:51. This bread is Jesus’ flesh, which he will give for the life of the world, John 6:53.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

When we believe in Jesus’ shed blood, we come into the blood covenant with God, Mark 14:24. We believe and this believing is as drinking his blood.

To obey Jesus, to do what the bread from heaven says, this is eating, this is eating the bread from heaven, and it is eating his flesh. Obeying Jesus’ word is equivalent to eating his flesh.

Luke 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread.

Jesus says for us to pray, give us each day our daily bread. That is having Jesus every day, his words, his teachings. We are to eat Jesus every day, which is to obey every day.

John 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Did you hear what Jesus said? Jesus says he who “feeds on this bread.” That is not a onetime thing. We are to eat every day. We are to obey every day.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

When we are hungry, hungry for God’s truth, we come to Jesus. Jesus says, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.” John 6:51

When we come to Jesus, believe, and obey, Jesus gives us water to drink that is, Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, John 4:10; 14; John 7:38; 39.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” The seal of approval is the Holy Spirit.

When we celebrate the Lord’s Supper, it is in remembrance to Jesus dying for us.
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.1 Corinthians 11:26.

Read what Jesus' disciples said to him...

John 4:31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."


32 But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33 Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Did you read that? Jesus says his food is to DO the will of him who sent me and to FINISH HIS WORK.

We are to do God's will. God's will is that we obey Jesus' teachings.

Now, that proves we eat the flesh of Jesus when we do what Jesus says to do.

That is how we eat the bread from heaven, the bread of life.

We have to eat every day. We have to obey every day.

Eating the flesh of Jesus isn't obedience, it's being fed of the things of God through the Holy Spirit, the bread of life, the word of God. Jesus said my words are Spirit and they are life. So eating the bread is being fed of the word of God into our hearts. Jesus is the bread of life because he only spoke what he was given to speak of the father, thus he brought us pure bread from heaven, feeding those hungry for the word of God bringing them to life from death. And drinking the blood isn't believing on the natural cross, but having the life of Christ within our hearts cleansing us from within.

Without eating his flesh and drinking his blood, (which is taking all his life into our hearts), then we have no life in us. We must believe and take in the truth, let God into our hearts, taking in the word of God through Christ and feed off it, ponder on it and live by it, obey God and live by his will daily. We naturally have to feed and drink to stay alive, spiritually we need the bread of life daily fed into our hearts, and the life of Christ within our hearts to keep alive in God.

 

[meshak]

Eating the flesh of Jesus isn't obedience,

[MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION]:

It is not literal. It is metaphor. When Jesus says eat and drink His blood, it is about being faithful to Him. This is my contextual reasoning.

 

[marhig]

[MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION]:

It is not literal. It is metaphor. When Jesus says eat and drink His blood, it is about being faithful to Him. This is my contextual reasoning.

Yes, I know it's not literal, but the bread isn't obedience, it's the word of God and we are to be obedient and faithful to God as we hear it, as God guides and teaches us daily through Christ, by the Spirit.

 

[meshak]

Yes, I know it's not literal, but the bread isn't obedience, it's the word of God and we are to be obedient and faithful to God as we hear it, as God guides and teaches us daily through Christ, by the Spirit.

I think GT did a good job explaining it.

 

[marhig]

I think GT did a good job explaining it.

Meshak, I agree with GT regarding obedience, but bread is the word of God. And we are fed of the word through Christ. Eating his flesh and drinking his blood is taking his life in and living by it and obeying God's word.

Some people think that the blood of Christ is his literal blood on the cross, but it isn't it's his life within and his life poured out. And the cross is the cross that Jesus bore and the cross that we are to take up to follow him. That's what I believe is the truth.

Anyway, I'm just off out, speak soon

 

[meshak]

Meshak, I agree with GT regarding obedience, but bread is the word of God.

[MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION],

GT is not denying that. Her point is very clear to me.

 

[God's Truth]

[MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION],

GT is not denying that. Her point is very clear to me.

I cannot tell you how good it is to me to hear from you sometimes.

Well done to you.