ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
"purex" and "logical" don't appear to be all that familiar with each other :idunno:
Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
- Start date
"purex" and "logical" don't appear to be all that familiar with each other :idunno:
PureX
Well-known member
Nope. Sin is a spiritual malady. It may effect the body, eventually, but it does not originate there.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
:doh: didn't she just say "soul"?
genuineoriginal
New member
And homosexuality is a sin that originates as a spiritual malady and is manifested by the actions of the body.
lifeisgood
New member
Being that I am sure you DO "not murder", you DO "not steal," you DO "honor your father and mother," you DO "not covet your neighbor's things;" therefore, you're are a Jew? :think:
Are you saying that because it's something you don't like? :chuckle:
So....he should tell her to sin just a little bit? :AMR: Sheesh. That's silly. The goal is to be perfect as our Father is perfect, even if it's unreachable in our current state.
It's true he didn't speak about homosexuality but you don't know why he didn't. Neither do I. But if you are saying he was OK with it then you are speculating more than those who would say Jesus wasn't.
I actually haven't said anything about my views on homosexuality. That's more of your projection. And again, you accuse others of being so stuck in such-and-such and fail to see the irony/hypocrisy because you appear to be so stuck in your own thinking.
My views on homosexuality are irrelevant to what I'm saying. I'm not trying to convince you to believe it's a sin, or even to support what this church did. My main point in talking to you has been about your unfair assumptions and accusations about why this church's leadership did what they did.
It's not really authoritarian. They aren't forcing him to do anything. Membership means A, B, and C and this guy rejects C so they cut out the membership. It's not really punishment and it's not authoritarian, unless you think any/all membership is authoritarian. They aren't even banning him from the church completely.
"Emptiness of religious dogma", but you appear to be calling the law that Jesus upheld 'religious dogma'. Jesus is hard to grasp. For all you accuse them of worshiping ancient Judaism you are worshiping a few statements from Jesus that are nice and non-judgmental. Jesus can't be pigeon-holed.
Yes, that's your view.
Umm...I guess I do? :idunno:
Not sure how this is a response to what I said. However, I find it interesting that in one sentence you say most sins are unconscious and then later say (and in other places) that sin is in the motive. Are people unconscious of their motives? :idunno:
I know why, because it was already a sin in the law, He was speaking to those who already had and read and knew the law, and He also clearly defined marriage and its purpose, once that is established, there is no need to add all the things that marriage and its intent, isnt. (See Matthew chapter 19)
Huckleberry
New member
It's not an odd thing for Christ to say at all. That is what the law said. Do not sin.
Yes, it's an impossible command for us to keep. That is why He gave Himself that we could be freed from the yoke of the law. So, if Christ forgave this woman her sins and yet she was still under the law...of course He would tell her to sin no more! She was still under the law.
What good did that commandment do her then? If she could not keep the law, could not be accounted as righteous under the law, why command her to keep the law?
What does the law teach us? Where does it lead us? To Christ, who can save us where the law cannot.
The same law that condemns homosexual sex on penalty of death.
Last edited:
PureX
Well-known member
I don't do or not do any of those things because of Judaism. So no, I'm not a Jew.
PureX
Well-known member
I'm saying it because none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said.
So you'd rather presume that Jesus went around placing irrational demands on people?
I'm saying the provincial religious biases of the day are irrelevant. Jesus did explain sin to us. And as he explained it, it is something that occurs in us by the motive of our heart and mind. Not by breaking some ancient religious rule.
All you're doing is trying to deflect the sting of the accusation by accusing the accuser. And the only people who will fall for that are those who will fall for anything, no matter how silly or unreasoned, so long as it thwarts an accusation that they don't want to face.
The whole point is to punish him, and anyone else, for not accepting their beliefs as facts of God. The only legal way they have of doing that is to reject him and shun him. Of course it's authoritarianism. The whole point is that the theology club maintains it's illusion of self-righteous authority. Otherwise, they wouldn't care if he agreed with them, or not.
It's true, he was an ancient Jew, and as such supported their beliefs and rituals. Yet it's also true that they murdered him for daring to speak of a higher, spiritual way of living, that supersedes their dogmatic traditional religious rule. It's also true that Jews, then and now, do not proselytize, nor seek conversions. And yet Jesus did preach to anyone who would listen, and did admonish his followers to do the same (supposedly).
So he is somewhat of a dichotomy, and that's all the more reason for us not to presume he was preaching adherence to ancient Judaism.
Yes, much of the time, we are. Often, deliberately so.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
isn't that true of all scripture?
isn't that true of 99.9% of the stuff you fill your head with?
did He?
none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said
was He?
none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said
did He?
none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said
did they?
none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said
is that what He did?
none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said
did He?
none of us were there, so we don't know what actually happened, or what was actually said
lifeisgood
New member
I only said asked because you said:
However, Judaism is what tells us not to do these things.
And, yes, I know about people saying that other laws were already in place, etc.
For example, Hammurabian code vs Law of God.
The Law of Moses is more than a legal code; it speaks of sin and responsibility to God.
The Hammurabian Code and other ancient laws do not do this.
The Hammurabian Code - you MUST follow. - contains harsh punishments.
The Ten Commandments - you SHOULD follow. - no punishments.
If you are interested:
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7150-hammurabi
PureX
Well-known member
No, it's not.
lifeisgood
New member
Where did you get your commandments not to do those things then?
PureX
Well-known member
I don't need any "commandments" to figure out how to live. By my experience, I have learned that helping others, helps me, too. By respecting others, I gain their respect. In appreciating others, I am in turn appreciated. And so on. And I find that life is better when lived in this way.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
and what did you use as a guide before you had that experience?
What do you need Christ for?
PureX
Well-known member
Christ is the reality of this ideal, and the promise that results from living it.
So you saying you really dont need Christ, you just need the ideal that He represents for you?
PureX
Well-known member
Christ isn't a "he". Christ is an ideal, which Jesus of Nazareth embodies (according to the Bible story).
This ideal: that God's love acting in us and through us to others, will heal us and save us from ourselves, is a reality, whether we recognize it as such, or not. And we all 'need it', whether we recognize this, or not, too.
You're trying to pick an argument where there isn't one, because I don't need your religion to recognize or embody the Christ ideal.
Get over it.