Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’

[Angel4Truth]

Christ isn't a "he". Christ is an ideal, which Jesus of Nazareth embodies (according to the Bible story).

This ideal: that God's love acting in us and through us to others, will heal us and save us from ourselves, is a reality, whether we recognize it as such, or not. And we all 'need it', whether we recognize this, or not, too.

You're trying to pick an argument where there isn't one, because I don't need your religion to recognize or embody the Christ ideal.

Get over it.

Im completely over it, i just wanted to see you say it outright to be sure what you believe. I pray you get saved one day. Christ is real and only He can save you.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . "

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Do you believe this?

 

[Idolater]

Christ said, and it's repeated for us four times by the New Testament writers, that we should eat his Supper, and partake of the bread and of the cup. Don't you think that has something to do with the Christ ideal?

Christ isn't a "he". Christ is an ideal, which Jesus of Nazareth embodies (according to the Bible story).

This ideal: that God's love acting in us and through us to others, will heal us and save us from ourselves, is a reality, whether we recognize it as such, or not. And we all 'need it', whether we recognize this, or not, too.

You're trying to pick an argument where there isn't one, because I don't need your religion to recognize or embody the Christ ideal.

Get over it.

 

[PureX]

Christ said, and it's repeated for us four times by the New Testament writers, that we should eat his Supper, and partake of the bread and of the cup. Don't you think that has something to do with the Christ ideal?

I'm not particularly concerned with what some scribe thought Jesus said, or wrote that he said. The scribe wasn't there (every written text we have about Jesus' life was written long after his death by people who were not there to personally witness it), and neither was I. So I take the religious here-say with a good dose of skepticism.

In the end, the truth is 'what is'. And we are all living in it. So the truth will become evident to us if we are willing to seek it out, and test it's propositions for ourselves. The truth of Christ is available to us all. Here and now. And the religions surrounding it can very often be more of a hindrance than an aid in that quest.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I'm not particularly concerned with what some scribe thought Jesus said, or wrote that he said. The scribe wasn't there (every written text we have about Jesus' life was written long after his death by people who were not there to personally witness it), and neither was I. So I take the religious here-say with a good dose of skepticism.

In the end, the truth is 'what is'. And we are all living in it. So the truth will become evident to us if we are willing to seek it out, and test it's propositions for ourselves. The truth of Christ is available to us all. Here and now. And the religions surrounding it can very often be more of a hindrance than an aid in that quest.

How do you know what you believe about Christ is the truth at all, when you put no stock in the word that tells you so?

 

[PureX]

How do you know what you believe about Christ is the truth at all, when you put no stock in the word that tells you so?

There's this thing called 'real life'. And in it, I can try out ideas that I hear about, or read about, or think up all on my own. And by trying them out, I can see if they work or not. And thus determine if they are worth accepting as being true, or not.

God gave me a life, and a brain, and a conscience, and I presume I was expected to use these gifts in conjunction with each other, to learn things. So that's what I try to do with them.

 

[Idolater]

I agree with all of this. :thumb:

In the end, the truth is 'what is'. And we are all living in it. So the truth will become evident to us if we are willing to seek it out, and test it's propositions for ourselves. The truth of Christ is available to us all. Here and now. And the religions surrounding it can very often be more of a hindrance than an aid in that quest.

 

[PureX]

I agree with all of this. :thumb:

I don't really have anything against religion, but I do think a lot of people confuse their religion with their God, and start worshipping their religion. Which is a form of idolatry.

A lot of Christians do this with the Bible: they confuse it with God and end up worshipping the words in it as if God were speaking them. And that's a form of idolatry, from my perspective. And idolatry is fundamentally dishonest, which pretty much always does us harm sooner or later.

If Christ is real, Christ is just as real without the scriptures as with them. And I have found in my own life that Christ IS REAL. And I didn't need any religious books to prove it to me.

 

[Angel4Truth]

There's this thing called 'real life'. And in it, I can try out ideas that I hear about, or read about, or think up all on my own. And by trying them out, I can see if they work or not. And thus determine if they are worth accepting as being true, or not.

God gave me a life, and a brain, and a conscience, and I presume I was expected to use these gifts in conjunction with each other, to learn things. So that's what I try to do with them.

What you define is relative morality.

 

[PureX]

What you define is relative morality.

Morality is the application of some ethical imperative. So morality is always "relative" to the ethical imperative set as it's goal.

Most of us have more or less the same ethical imperatives as our goal, though there are always variations and degrees of urgency involved in our actions as we express them, morally.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Morality is the application of some ethical imperative. So morality is always "relative" to the ethical imperative set as it's goal.

It cannot be so, or everyone would be right equally about what they believe - and if you really believe that nonsense, why are you in this thread calling down people for what you believe as their own version of morality?

 

[bybee]

It cannot be so, or everyone would be right equally about what they believe - and if you really believe that nonsense, why are you in this thread calling down people for what you believe as their own version of morality?

Exactly so!
Apparently only he may enjoy that freedom?

 

[PureX]

It cannot be so, or everyone would be right equally about what they believe

Everyone does believe they're right. Don't they? Even when they disagree about what is ethically imperative.

- and if you really believe that nonsense, why are you in this thread calling down people for what you believe as their own version of morality?

You seem to be desperately looking for some way to negate and insult me, here. Why? What do you care what I think?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Exactly so!
Apparently only he may enjoy that freedom?

yes, which already rips apart "relative" or its this way because *i* feel it so, morality.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one

Psalms 118:8 - better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Everyone does believe they're right. Don't they? Even when they disagree about what is ethically imperative.
You seem to be desperately looking for some way to negate and insult me, here. Why? What do you care what I think?

I'm not trying to insult you at all, i am trying to win you over to the truth that you might be saved. His truth. The only One who has it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Im completely over it, i just wanted to see you say it outright to be sure what you believe. I pray you get saved one day. Christ is real and only He can save you.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . "

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Do you believe this?

Do you believe it, Pure x, or will you substitute what you feel is right instead by your own definition of what is moral and immoral instead of His?

 

[PureX]

Do you believe it, Pure x, or will you substitute what you feel is right instead by your own definition of what is moral and immoral instead of His?

"His"?

I don't pretend that God speaks the Bible's words. To me, that would be a grievous form of religious idolatry. But you're not going to understand that, and you're clearly looking for a fight, so we may as well just stop here.

Have a good evening.

 

[Angel4Truth]

"His"?

I don't pretend that God speaks the Bible's words. To me, that would be a grievous form of religious idolatry. But you're not going to understand that, and you're clearly looking for a fight, so we may as well just stop here.

Its not fighting to share the gospel with you, nor to pray for your salvation.

Have a good evening.

Thanks, and the same to you.

 

[Idolater]

Censored, I wasn't sure which post of yours to answer: in a good way. I ran out of rep to give you.

This is informative. So for you: can I ask: if you grant that there was a man whose name was Joshua who was crucified and who rose from the dead: I'm not asking if you agree with it, just, for instance: If you grant that: then would you accept that this Joshua began a particular, formal, actual, legal, visual, obvious, major, global, organization or corporation? One that we can see today? That is today: everywhere? Almost literally?

I ate the Lord's Supper this morning again before work. The Lord's Supper is not work, it's something I do before work: sometimes after work. I'm right now trying to figure out how to partake of the bread and the cup twice each day instead of just once. I think I'm going to definitely try it out.

"His"?

I don't pretend that God speaks the Bible's words. To me, that would be a grievous form of religious idolatry. But you're not going to understand that, and you're clearly looking for a fight, so we may as well just stop here.

Have a good evening.

 

[rougueone]

Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’
"We will continue to pray for you and your family."



Seems huffington post and this young man who was a 6 year member of this church calling himself a brother - needs to be reminded of this bible verse:

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

They obviously also do not understand that being a member of the local church and being able to attend it, aren't the same thing.

This church did the right thing imo, and followed scripture after being informed that he wanted to openly embrace being gay.

Thoughts?

A4T, I know of other threads you started that significance. But at least this one has taken off . And some wholesome perspectives offered.

Good thread.

 

[PureX]

So for you: can I ask: if you grant that there was a man whose name was Joshua who was crucified and who rose from the dead: I'm not asking if you agree with it, just, for instance: If you grant that: then would you accept that this Joshua began a particular, formal, actual, legal, visual, obvious, major, global, organization or corporation? One that we can see today? That is today: everywhere? Almost literally?

No, I think the religion we call Christianity sprung up on it's own.

I suspect there really was a man at the heart of all this, and some of the events and quotes attributed to him are probably accurate according to the story of him. And what is certainly true is that a new way of understanding God, how God works in the world, and our relationship to God, was born in that place and time.

But the religions that have manifested since then, based loosely on this new idea, was our doing; not God's, nor Jesus'. And they may be useful to us, or they may not be. But turning them into false idols and pretending that they were God's absolute will isn't helping anyone, spiritually, I don't believe. It's just an idea that's being used to create false "authorities" for some men to use to control and manipulate other men.

I ate the Lord's Supper this morning again before work. The Lord's Supper is not work, it's something I do before work: sometimes after work. I'm right now trying to figure out how to partake of the bread and the cup twice each day instead of just once. I think I'm going to definitely try it out.

Why are you so enamored with this ritual? Such rituals have their uses, but they aren't 'magical'. They're really just tools we can use to help us maintain spiritual clarity. Unfortunately, they can also be used to enable our spiritual illnesses, too. And we must be mindful of this.