WOOT WOOT DONALD TRUMP IN MOBILE ALABAMA NOW!

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
I was simply commenting on the clergy's sterling reputation when it comes to monogamy and eschewing filthy lucre.





Well we agree the situation in this country's seriously bent. I think the Clintons and Obama are more of a symptom than a cause of the problem. It seems much older and deeper than them. As for the Bushes, the family is filth, and has been for decades.

I believe it is all of them, and the collusion of the Democrat & Republican parties to shape the political landscape so that their crony capitalist empire can continue to thrive while selling out the American people in the process. The people are on to it and are genuinely angry with both parties though the party loyalists on both sides will never stray. I think Trump has tapped into that anger, and people see him as outside of it given his campaign is self funded...really, I think the man could say just about anything and it would stick at this point.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
I believe it is all of them, and the collusion of the Democrat & Republican parties to shape the political landscape so that their crony capitalist empire can continue to thrive while selling out the American people in the process. The people are on to it and are genuinely angry with both parties though the party loyalists on both sides will never stray. I think Trump has tapped into that anger, and people see him as outside of it given his campaign is self funded...really, I think the man could say just about anything and it would stick at this point.

I agree, for the most part. But I'm skeptical Trump is the hero some folks make him out to be.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
I agree, for the most part. But I'm skeptical Trump is the hero some folks make him out to be.

That may well be the case but, unless another anti-establishment candidate that people are willing to vote for is able to gain momentum it looks like America will remain enamored by Trump. Just an observation anyway.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
That may well be the case but, unless another anti-establishment candidate that people are willing to vote for is able to gain momentum it looks like America will remain enamored by Trump. Just an observation anyway.

Agreed. We're hungry and angry for something, and it's a great opening for a demagogue.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
WOOT WOOT DONALD TRUMP IN MOBILE ALABAMA NOW!

Agreed. We're hungry and angry for something, and it's a great opening for a demagogue.


America just shifts from one demagogue to the next because all the real leaders are drowned out by the noise of the crony capitalists, the establishment of both parties, & the media alike. It is fertile ground for a demagogue running outside of frey on their own money.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
America just shifts from one demagogue to the next because all the real leaders are drowned out by the noise of the crony capitalists, the establishment of both parties, & the media alike. It is fertile ground for a demagogue running outside of frey on their own money.

That may be but a true-blue demagogue's never really been elected. Usually they're regional rabble rousers and disturbers of the status quo who can't or won't establish a national base. Trump's very different and far more dangerous in that regard.

I'm not sure we have any "real leaders" left. No one we're listening to or who has something we want to listen to, anyway.
 
Last edited:

The Berean

Well-known member
I really don't underatand why so many people are "afraid" of Trump? :idunno: His "popularity" is a sham. People show up to his appearances and events like people show up at parades, car accidents, and Cirque du Soleil. That is a far cry from people actually voting for Trump when it really counts next year. The Republican National Convention is still 11 months away. When the time comes for people to actually vote, Trump will be long gone from the national scene. Trump will ultimately fail to turn large crowds into large blocks of voters. I suspect that next year you will see the largest number of Hispanic voters registered ever. That alone will bury Trump.

Test for Donald Trump: Turning Crowds Into Real Voters

“The entertainment value of a Trump event is high, but the reality of his issues is a real challenge to him,” said Steve Grubbs, the director for Senator Rand Paul’s Iowa campaign, citing Mr. Trump’s past support for gun restrictions and abortion rights. “At the end of the day, you can like the concept of Donald Trump, but voting for him at the caucuses will be a lot tougher for people.”
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
That may be but a true-blue demagogue's never really been elected. Usually they're regional rabble rousers and disturbers of the status quo who can't or won't establish a national base. Trump's very different and far more dangerous in that regard.

Not true at all Granite, if we are all being honest here Obama is a demagogue of the first order and has been elected twice.

I'm not sure we have any "real leaders" left. No one we're listening to or who has something we want to listen to, anyway.

I think they are out there, and being the son of a West Point graduate I can say I have met many of them personally but, what leader with any integrity would want to step in to this circus and soil their garments amongst this political rabble.
 
Last edited:

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
I really don't underatand why so many people are "afraid" of Trump? :idunno: His "popularity" is a sham.

I think many believe that but, from what I have been reading I am not inclined to agree. I also believe that those such as yourself that are underestimating him are in for a big surprise that he is not likely to go away. Love em or Hate em, Trump is all in and has a great following whose support is seemingly from the disenfranchised from both parties. People do not believe the progressives on the Right or Left, and are mad as hell which has created this Trump phenomena. This is just an observation, and Trump is not my pick either but, if he is the choice next to another RINO like Bush than I will vote for the man as well. You should read this article it kind of sums up what I believe is happening in our country concerning the Trump appeal.

http://time.com/4009413/donald-trump-focus-group-frank-luntz/
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Not true at all Granite, if we are all being honest here Obama is a demagogue of the first order and has been elected twice.

Then we're defining the word very, very differently.

I think they are out there, and being the son of a West Point graduate I can say I have met many of them personally but, what leader with any integrity would want to step in to this circus and soil their garments amongst this political rabble.

The only people worth putting in office are the ones who'd never want to be there. Time to grab a lamp and go wandering the streets looking for them, maybe. Or maybe we've already reached the tipping point.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
Then we're defining the word very, very differently.


dem·a·gogue
ˈdeməˌɡäɡ/
noun
a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.



No. I think you and I define the word the same, maybe you just see Mr. Obama in different light than I do.

The only people worth putting in office are the ones who'd never want to be there. Time to grab a lamp and go wandering the streets looking for them, maybe. Or maybe we've already reached the tipping point.

I think that we are already over the tipping point and on the downward slide and have been sliding downward as a country since Reagan left office...too many Bushes, the Clintons, and Obama...too many progressives...they are a very destructive lot.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
I think that we are already over the tipping point and on the downward slide and have been sliding downward as a country since Reagan left office...too many Bushes, the Clintons, and Obama...too many progressives...they are a very destructive lot.

Oh yes: The almighty St. Ronald.

I'd put our decline well before his administration. The entire system itself is rigged, gamed, heartsick, destructive, and co-opted. Has been for a while.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
Oh yes: The almighty St. Ronald.

I'd put our decline well before his administration. The entire system itself is rigged, gamed, heartsick, destructive, and co-opted. Has been for a while.

St. Ronny wasn't a progressive but, a true conservative...hated by the RINO's, and this country enjoyed great economic growth during his tenure. Was he perfect? no, he had his faults like any other but, in my lifetime I would say he was the best I have seen. I would compare where we are now with the state of affairs after Nixon/Ford/Carter years. So yes, Reagan was a good president and after him we saw the old ruling class (progressives) from both parties attempt to fill the void...and here we are. Your description of the system above is appropriate and I could not agree more.
 

The Berean

Well-known member
I think many believe that but, from what I have been reading I am not inclined to agree.
Ok. :think:

I also believe that those such as yourself that are underestimating him are in for a big surprise that he is not likely to go away.
America went through this with Ross Perot in 1992. The major differences are that Perot was smarter, had more money, and wasn't a clown. Perot actually accomplished some things in his life beyond making billions that showed that he had at least some integrity and honor. For example Perot put together a private militia to rescue two employees beign held captive in Iran. Perot was a champion for Vietnam vets. He went so far as to have private meetings with the Vietnamese government to try to find out if there were still American soliders being held in Vietnam. This angered the US government. Compared to these things Trump is a clown show.


Love em or Hate em, Trump is all in and has a great following whose support is seemingly from the disenfranchised from both parties.
The disenfranchised that are attracted to Trump are very small in number. Latino and black voters will not vote for Trump. I know you live in California, Rocketman. You know how liberal California is. Also, California has a HUGE and increasingly politically aware Latino voter base. They will never vote for Trump after his idiotic rants about "Mexicans". If by some major miracle Trump wins the GOP nomination he will most cetainly lose CA in the presidental election. CA has 55 Electoral College votes.

People do not believe the progressives on the Right or Left, and are mad as hell which has created this Trump phenomena. This is just an observation, and Trump is not my pick either but, if he is the choice next to another RINO like Bush than I will vote for the man as well. You should read this article it kind of sums up what I believe is happening in our country concerning the Trump appeal.
It's all smoke and mirrors IMO. Also, as we enter 2016 I have no doubt that Trump's opponents will dig up all the significant dirt on Trump. That will be so easy to do since there is so much of it. Trump has made a lot of enemies in his life.
This article says this.

The group was not a representative sample of the Republican party, or early state voters, as all of them had been selected because they like (or love) Trump and live in Washington or its suburbs in Maryland and Virginia.

The people who were part of the focus group were mostly white (23 of the 29). This is not a representaive cross section of American voters.

I gues we'll have to see this plays out in the upcoming months.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Here's why Trump bothers me.

It's not so much I think he'll win--I doubt he gets nominated, lets alone gets to the White House. I can't even gauge how seriously he's taking this. Is his candidacy a lark? Born of boredom? A massive psyche? Is he trolling? Is he just building his brand? Is he a tool of the Clintons, intent on destroying the GOP?

I don't know and I don't care.

What Trump's done is prove that xenophobia, open bigotry, naked hatred, and vulgarity are perfectly acceptable when the presidency's on the line. The genie's out. There's no getting it back in the lamp. What Trump's selling is selling because it's popular. The naked, ugly id is out in the open now. Less and less dog whistling's required; you can just cup your hands and call.

Someone else is going to pick up where Trump left off, capitalize on his snake oil, and might well wind up in the White House. And that is an unsettling proposition: A slicker, savvier version of Trump either truly bigoted enough to get the big job, or deeply cynical enough to pose as a bigot just to get elected, is an extremely dangerous human being.

Trump's campaign doesn't speak well for this country and now that he's proven he's got a bottle of elixir worth peddling, he's opened the door for imitators and followers up to improve on what he's already built.

Not good.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
America went through this with Ross Perot in 1992. The major differences are that Perot was smarter, had more money, and wasn't a clown. Perot actually accomplished some things in his life beyond making billions that showed that he had at least some integrity and honor. For example Perot put together a private militia to rescue two employees beign held captive in Iran. Perot was a champion for Vietnam vets. He went so far as to have private meetings with the Vietnamese government to try to find out if there were still American soliders being held in Vietnam. This angered the US government. Compared to these things Trump is a clown show.

The man is as undignified as I have seen but, I also see what is driving his campaign and like it or not it is the illegal immigration infestation that both parties have allowed to metastasize, it is hurting this nation, it has put people out of work, and all the spin that it is not just aint sticking anymore. I agree that he is not a proper choice but, in the absence of a real leader being being put forward he has stepped into the void. The country will not elect another Bush, I think we can all see that.



The disenfranchised that are attracted to Trump are very small in number. Latino and black voters will not vote for Trump. I know you live in California, Rocketman. You know how liberal California is. Also, California has a HUGE and increasingly politically aware Latino voter base. They will never vote for Trump after his idiotic rants about "Mexicans". If by some major miracle Trump wins the GOP nomination he will most cetainly lose CA in the presidental election. CA has 55 Electoral College votes.

I am not sure that you are correct here, in fact the article showed that some in that audience voted for Obama so, the demographic spans party lines as well, it really is an interesting phenomena. As far as California goes, no conservative expects to win here & George Bush won twice without their help...California is really politically irrelevant anymore in national elections, except to liberals of course given that they cannot carry middle America generally.


It's all smoke and mirrors IMO. Also, as we enter 2016 I have no doubt that Trump's opponents will dig up all the significant dirt on Trump. That will be so easy to do since there is so much of it. Trump has made a lot of enemies in his life.

And even these people were given some of those facts and were undeterred...How much of what he has said & done has effected him so far? pretty much nothing...the guy is teflon and people don't seem to care.


This article says this.

The group was not a representative sample of the Republican party, or early state voters, as all of them had been selected because they like (or love) Trump and live in Washington or its suburbs in Maryland and Virginia.

The people who were part of the focus group were mostly white (23 of the 29). This is not a representaive cross section of American voters.

I gues we'll have to see this plays out in the upcoming months.

Yes, we will indeed.I think if the RINO's don't suck it up and back/fund an acceptable anti-establishment candidate running like a Carson, Cruz, or Fiorina they are finished & stuck with Trump by default, Bush just won't cut it...
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
St. Ronny wasn't a progressive but, a true conservative...hated by the RINO's, and this country enjoyed great economic growth during his tenure.

During his tenure:

We went from a creditor nation to a debtor nation, largely because Reagan decided that "deficits don't matter", and so he cut taxes and raised expenditures.

Then, when it became clear that a disaster was looming, he gave us the largest middle-class tax increase in history.

And he gave us the most corrupt administration in U.S. history, based on the number of presidential appointees, convicted, pardoned, or indicted for crimes related to their performance in office.

Granite is right; the decline was underway before Reagan; he just hastened things more than any other president.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
What Trump's done is prove that xenophobia, open bigotry, naked hatred, and vulgarity are perfectly acceptable when the presidency's on the line. The genie's out. There's no getting it back in the lamp. What Trump's selling is selling because it's popular. The naked, ugly id is out in the open now. Less and less dog whistling's required; you can just cup your hands and call.

Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Here's the latest:
After a Hispanic man was beaten Wednesday by two Boston men, one of whom told the police that he was inspired by Donald J. Trump’s anti-immigrant message, Mr. Trump told reporters that his supporters were “passionate.”

Two brothers from South Boston were arrested and charged with beating the 58-year-old man, who is homeless, with a metal pole, breaking his nose and battering his chest and arms, The Boston Globe reported.

“Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported,” the police said one of the brothers, Scott Leader, 38, told them. His brother, Steve Leader, 30, was also charged in the beating, the police said. The Globe reported that the brothers have extensive criminal records.v His brother, Steve Leader, 30, was also charged in the beating, the police said. The Globe reported that the brothers have extensive criminal records.

Told of the attack, which also left the man soaked in urine, Mr. Trump said at a news conference late Wednesday that it was the first he had heard of it.

“It would be a shame,” Mr. Trump said, before adding: “I will say that people who are following me are very passionate. They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.”



All those here and elsewhere who go on and on about why Trump resonates, it still comes down to his appealing to the baseness of the base.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Great article in The New Yorker.
Trump has succeeded in unleashing an old gene in American politics—the crude tribalism that Richard Hofstadter named “the paranoid style”—and, over the summer, it replicated like a runaway mutation. Whenever Americans have confronted the reshuffling of status and influence—the Great Migration, the end of Jim Crow, the end of a white majority—we succumb to the anti-democratic politics of absolutism, of a “conflict between absolute good and absolute evil,” in which, Hofstadter wrote, “the quality needed is not a willingness to compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Nothing but complete victory will do.” Trump was born to the part. “I’ll do nearly anything within legal bounds to win,” he wrote, in “The Art of the Deal.” “Sometimes, part of making a deal is denigrating your competition.” Trump, who long ago mastered the behavioral nudges that could herd the public into his casinos and onto his golf courses, looked so playful when he gave out Lindsey Graham’s cell-phone number that it was easy to miss just how malicious a gesture it truly was. It expressed the knowledge that, with a single utterance, he could subject an enemy to that most savage weapon of all: us.

Also, regarding his support from white supremacists:

When the Trump storm broke this summer, it touched off smaller tempests that stirred up American politics in ways that were easy to miss from afar. At the time, I happened to be reporting on extremist white-rights groups, and observed at first hand their reactions to his candidacy. Trump was advancing a dire portrait of immigration that partly overlapped with their own. On June 28th, twelve days after Trump’s announcement, the Daily Stormer, America’s most popular neo-Nazi news site, endorsed him for President: “Trump is willing to say what most Americans think: it’s time to deport these people.” The Daily Stormer urged white men to “vote for the first time in our lives for the one man who actually represents our interests.”

[...]

Richard Spencer is a self-described “identitarian” who lives in Whitefish, Montana, and promotes “white racial consciousness.” At thirty-six, Spencer is trim and preppy, with degrees from the University of Virginia and the University of Chicago. He is the president and director of the National Policy Institute, a think tank, co-founded by William Regnery, a member of the conservative publishing family, that is “dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of European people in the United States and around the world.” The Southern Poverty Law Center calls Spencer “a suit-and-tie version of the white supremacists of old.” Spencer told me that he had expected the Presidential campaign to be an “amusing freak show,” but that Trump was “refreshing.” He went on, “Trump, on a gut level, kind of senses that this is about demographics, ultimately. We’re moving into a new America.” He said, “I don’t think Trump is a white nationalist,” but he did believe that Trump reflected “an unconscious vision that white people have—that their grandchildren might be a hated minority in their own country. I think that scares us. They probably aren’t able to articulate it. I think it’s there. I think that, to a great degree, explains the Trump phenomenon. I think he is the one person who can tap into it.”

Jared Taylor, the editor of American Renaissance, a white-nationalist magazine and Web site based in Oakton, Virginia, told me, in regard to Trump, “I’m sure he would repudiate any association with people like me, but his support comes from people who are more like me than he might like to admit.”



 

The Berean

Well-known member
I have read similar articles, Anna. Real white nationalists know that Trump is not one of them. They know Trump's words about "menace of illegal immigration" are only superfically similar to White Nationalist beliefs.
 
Top