Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

Explain to yourself, why Jesus would need a hell, after God has given him " All Flesh", John 17:2. And he gave Jesus ALL FLESH in order to GIVE them all eternal life. People are going to be completely forgiven, get over it! God is going to show mercy to those unbelievers that YOU would not show mercy to, get over it!

 

[Mickiel]

Why would God need a hell, when he is full of mercy and grace?

 

[ok doser]

You're not getting it, neither have you apparently read all the commentaries, resource articles with proofs or considered this issue in its total implications. You're mind is made up, without a desire to really Research whats been provided you here and elsewhere. Again, I challenge you to read all the evidences put forth in the shared resource site that's been provided ,...this is for your own benefit, if you would be so brave to discover facts and truth for yourself, having the proper info. from which to draw a more informed conclusion.

The concept of 'eternal salvation' or 'eternal life', a person receiving the divine nature or divine kind of life that endures into the ages, or for a particular 'age' is NOT insane....since this is available for one's own choosing, and God's good pleasure to give as a GIFT.

What is insane is the assumption that this God of LOVE is going to condemn and DETAIN souls in a lake of fire (or any space of containment) for all eternity, in a state of suffering, pain, agony, sorrow, misery, without allowing for them to EVER have any relief, hope or salvation whatsoever. This is imposing a punishment that is TO NO END (it accomplishes nothing; the suffering has no corrective purpose leading to the soul's repentance or reformation....at least in Universalism the soul undergoes a period of purgatorial suffering and is then rehabilitated thereby....in ECT, there is no resolve or rehabilitation, again its just eternal torture....TO NO END. That is INSANE.

~*~*~

More on the word 'aion', 'aionios' (and its derivatives)- see Here

eternal salvation

vs

eternal damnation



not sure why you think that's insane - seems balanced to me :idunno:

 

[ok doser]

"unto the resurrection of damnation" is not a very good translation of "eis anastasin kriseos". A better translation is "into the resurrection of judgment". I suggest that you look up the word "kriseos" (krisis) in a Greek lexicon. It means "judgment, judging, condemnation, punishment, justice". It doesn't mean "damned to hell to be tortured alive forever".

sorry timmy, i'm not using that scripture to show "damned to hell to be tortured alive forever"

i'm using it to show mickie "not universal salvation"


but he's too retarded to get it

 

[Mickiel]

Inside of us all, there is a filter through which all incoming knowledge must go through, its called " Human consciousness." Spiritually, we can only be conscious of, those things we are conscious of. Many humans are more conscious of punishment, than they are of mercy. I mean, its just how they are; how they think, and that seriously affects how they view scripture. And how they view God. There are mindsets we are just comfortable with, and many believers in God are just comfortable with God eternally punishing humans alive. I mean they are okay with that; they agree with it, because its what they would do to un believers. It requires an unmerciful mind to be unmerciful. You have to be unforgiving to not forgive. Its a way of thinking.

It requires a certain consciousness to be ruthless, the heart has to be geared toward that kind of coldness; it has to be numb to human suffering, to sentence them to eternal pain and hurt. Something has to be there that can see millions suffering, and yet do nothing about it. Hitler had it, that kind of hard core stance toward a whole race of people. Its stunning that we are witnessing religions that are breeding this kind of consciousness.

 

[ok doser]

Inside of us all, there is a filter through which all incoming knowledge must go through, its called " Human consciousness." Spiritually, we can only be conscious of, those things we are conscious of. Many humans are more conscious of punishment, than they are of mercy. I mean, its just how they are; how they think, and that seriously affects how they view scripture. And how they view God. There are mindsets we are just comfortable with, and many believers in God are just comfortable with God eternally punishing humans alive. I mean they are okay with that; they agree with it, because its what they would do to un believers. It requires an unmerciful mind to be unmerciful. You have to be unforgiving to not forgive. Its a way of thinking.

It requires a certain consciousness to be ruthless, the heart has to be geared toward that kind of coldness; it has to be numb to human suffering, to sentence them to eternal pain and hurt. Something has to be there that can see millions suffering, and yet do nothing about it. Hitler had it, that kind of hard core stance toward a whole race of people. Its stunning that we are witnessing religions that are breeding this kind of consciousness.

:darwinsm:

 

[ttruscott]

Why would God need a hell, when he holds all power in his hands?

Why use power to build a hell, when you can use it to save the people.

Obviously, if there is a hell, it is for those who have put themselves outside of HIS ability to save them...a matter of some thing else other than power such as a true free will decision (which is sacrosanct to the Person who gives it to us) to reject YHWH's deity and to reject HIS promise of salvation for eternity.

As sinners who cannot save themselves and having rejected all and forever HIS help in saving them, they have doomed themselves to being eternally evil. As well, since entry into the heavenly marriage can only be by a true free will decision to accept HIS proposal then these reprobate cannot be forced to conform to HIS righteousness as this would make a false marriage, totally unacceptable to GOD.

So by these two things it is possible to see how the demonic reprobate have sealed their fate of destruction by rejecting YHWH as their GOD.

As for hell - if these spirits were created to be eternal and if their evil would never be stopped in its spread, then hell is the loving necessity to keep HIS Church and heaven free from inevitable corruption.

 

[ok doser]

hey mickie - was God acting like Hitler when He destroyed all of mankind (save 8) in the flood?

 

[ttruscott]

Jesus does not loose sheep, and all humans are sheep.

All humans are not sheep - some are demonic goats soon as people of the evil one into the world by the devil.

 

[Mickiel]

It requires a unique level of consciousness to sentence a human to eternal conscious misery; the mind has to be completely stubborn to forgiveness, mercy, grace or pity. Almost similar to a monster like quality, there can be no room for kindness or gentleness, because eternal punishing is the greatest level of pain ever to be constructed to heap on humans. It is therefore not a human quality, it requires inhuman traits to hurt someone for an endless eternity. There can never be pity or remorse, the judgment is eternal and unrelenting, so the human who believes in and agrees with this, must themselves be forever unrelenting and without pity. Their consciousness must be seared and sold on suffering. And that is frightening ; a human who thinks like that could condemn more humans than Hitler did, I mean in the billions. And religion is manufacturing this mindset daily.

 

[ok doser]

It requires a unique level of consciousness to sentence a human to eternal conscious misery; the mind has to be completely stubborn to forgiveness, mercy, grace or pity. Almost similar to a monster like quality, there can be no room for kindness or gentleness, because eternal punishing is the greatest level of pain ever to be constructed to heap on humans. It is therefore not a human quality, it requires inhuman traits to hurt someone for an endless eternity. There can never be pity or remorse, the judgment is eternal and unrelenting, so the human who believes in and agrees with this, must themselves be forever unrelenting and without pity. Their consciousness must be seared and sold on suffering. And that is frightening ; a human who thinks like that could condemn more humans than Hitler did, I mean in the billions. And religion is manufacturing this mindset daily.

you're an obsessive little tard, aren't you?

 

[Mickiel]

There is a biblical principle that goes against the Christian version of eternal suffering. In James 2:13, " For he shall have judgment without mercy, that has showed no mercy; and Mercy triumphs over judgment!" People who show no mercy, they ought not receive it themselves. But they will. Those who believe in and accept eternal hell punishing, have thrown mercy away; they would rather judge people to punishment, than to have mercy on them and forgive. But Mercy triumphs over judging people into this hell. But hell belief retards mercy; it eliminates it. It does things to the heart and mind; makes them callous.

It was biblically predicted that the love of many would grow cold; hell belief is one of the manifested ways to make a human heart cold blooded. Mercy is compassion shown to an offender, one who is guilty. Mercy is a blessing, its favor. So to be unmerciful, is to be of a mindset that you will NOT give favor, you will NOT show compassion; you will not forgive! This eternal hell belief is teaching believers to be uncompassionate and cold toward the very people who NEED mercy. Its training believers to turn their back on grace and favor to sinners, and give their grace to only those they think deserve it. Hey, if God was like that, we all would be in serious trouble.

 

[LightSon]

This question is for those who hold to the traditional Christian view of Eternal Conscious Torment.
Would God be just in offering salvation through Christ to a lost person after they have died physically?

 

[freelight]

What is Love's will ?

What is Love's will ?

There is a biblical principle that goes against the Christian version of eternal suffering. In James 2:13, " For he shall have judgment without mercy, that has showed no mercy; and Mercy triumphs over judgment!" People who show no mercy, they ought not receive it themselves. But they will. Those who believe in and accept eternal hell punishing, have thrown mercy away; they would rather judge people to punishment, than to have mercy on them and forgive. But Mercy triumphs over judging people into this hell. But hell belief retards mercy; it eliminates it. It does things to the heart and mind; makes them callous.

It was biblically predicted that the love of many would grow cold; hell belief is one of the manifested ways to make a human heart cold blooded. Mercy is compassion shown to an offender, one who is guilty. Mercy is a blessing, its favor. So to be unmerciful, is to be of a mindset that you will NOT give favor, you will NOT show compassion; you will not forgive! This eternal hell belief is teaching believers to be uncompassionate and cold toward the very people who NEED mercy. Its training believers to turn their back on grace and favor to sinners, and give their grace to only those they think deserve it. Hey, if God was like that, we all would be in serious trouble.

:thumb:

Those who blindly just follow a traditional concept of eternal hellfire and everlasting tortures must by some mirror psychology accept that image of God, even if its distorted, heinous and cruel. A thinking religionist however employs reason, conscience, intelligence, logic, common sense and holds to some ethic of a philosophy worthy of wisdom, some morality consonant with love.

Few apparently have stopped to meditate upon the nature and will of LOVE. What is Love's will? These are questions that draw one into the eternal and infinite Heart of Our Father in heaven.

 

[Crucible]

:doh:

These Hell deniers do not even know what is taught of Hell today. The concept of Hell has changed, being a place commensurate to one's sins rather than ethereal fire. The fire is simply the initial purge.

People are so self-righteous today that all they can do are things like this- consistently find what they see as the most wrong.. and never SHUT UP about it!

(like liberals)
(most Hell deniers are probably libs)

 

[Mickiel]

I personally see nothing wrong with finding a "Most wrong, and constantly talking about it." I think that's fine.

 

[ok doser]

Would God be just in ....

....doing anything He chose to do?

of course

 

[Mickiel]

In Romans 5:1 there will come a time that the whole world will be justified by faith and be at peace with God, also read Rom. 5:18-19. Riddle me this; why would God need a hell when the world will be at peace with him? Why do the Christians keep forcing this hell onto humanity? Why are they addicted to hell?

 

[ok doser]

In Romans 5:1 there will come a time that the whole world will be justified by faith

"the whole world"?

nope

and be at peace with God, also read Rom. 5:18-19.

"many"

not "all"

 

[Mickiel]

Why would God need a hell, when ALL FLESH shall see him? Luke 3:6. ALL FLESH shall see the Salvation of God; and God is not a human, that would show people things they cannot have.