ECT Why Were Only Some of the Jewish Believers Baptized Into the Body of Christ?

[DAN P]

When does the bible tell us these two groups became one?

Hi , trubosixx , and all become ONE , " IN CHRIST " and Gal 3:28 says so , and is the ONLY TIME that I believe that happens and Col 3:11 is also a proof text !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and it is in Gal 3:28 that Jews and Gentiles ARE / ESTE and does means OSAS , because the PRESENT TENSE means CONTINUOUS ACTION in the PRESENT TENSE are always " in Christ ."

And I c an prove , by many more texts !!

dan p

That verse doesn't answer WHEN they became one group. Do you know of a verse that shows WHEN they became one?

 

[turbosixx]

The chapters I suggested that Jerry re-read in the order I gave them, address your question.

It's called "rightly dividing the word of truth."

But you and I have been down this road before

I doubt you did what I suggested Jerry do; just as he obviously failed to do that little.

Because he has long since both ended up at, and dead set, in his many errors, he has long since largely rendered himself almost incapable of rightly dividing the word of truth beyond the very simplest of the most basic of basics of rightly dividing the word of truth.

The result?

Not only his many errors, but his consistent failure to see the obvious answer in a Scripture based reply to him - unless it is spelled out to him, in plain English.

And even doing that much often still runs smack into his cluelessness.

Sort of like Jacob, over in his thread in the Religion Forum about the Twelve, and the Eleven.

Not only did he once more clearly demonstrate his inability to discern some thing so simple like the fact that "Peter, standing up with the eleven" in Acts 2, makes it obvious there were Twelve Apostes AGAIN, but also made it obvious once more that he (Jacob) is ever clueless to just how clueless he ever is...to the simplest of deductions within the practice of rightly dividing the word of truth.

But, you did jump in, to my post to Jerry, turbo...

And you have asserted you are just curious.

Question is, did you at least read those chapters in the order I suggested they be read in?

I highly doubt it.

You just might...now.

2 Tim. 2:15

Rom. 5: 6-8.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
What does Peter mean by "be converted"?

 

[turbosixx]

Hi , trubosixx , and all become ONE , " IN CHRIST " and Gal 3:28 says so , and is the ONLY TIME that I believe that happens and Col 3:11 is also a proof text !!

dan p

That verse says one yes, but not when. The bible tells us WHEN they became one. You don't know?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Oh look, Jerry's saying there's two saving gospels in force today.

When were the following words of the Apostle John cancelled?

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

I am still waiting for you evidence from the Scriptures which demonstrate that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ and others were not.

So far all of you in the Neo-MAD camp have come up empty.

 

[DAN P]

When were the following words of the Apostle John cancelled?

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

I am still waiting for you evidence from the Scriptures which demonstrate that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ and others were not.

So far all of you in the Neo-MAD camp have come up empty.

Hi Jerry and you are calling me a Neo-MAN and you are CRETIN for sure !!

People that believe what you believe ONLY quote Paul when it suits you and Paul was not given the MYSTERY until Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 , around 33AD and you have yet to explain how Paul was saved !!

In verse 31 , But these are written , that Jesus is the Christ and that means the MESSIAH !!

Is that how we are saved , BELIEVE in the MESSIAH , so when did you become a Jew ??

Just 7 verse before verse 30 , Christ gave you the Holy Spirit to REMIT SINS , so how is that coming along , in John 20:23 ??

You are the one , writing FAKE NEWS for today and are TRYING to mix WORKS with GRACE !!

By verse 31 , to be saved JUST believing , you get LIFE through His name ??

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi Jerry and you are calling me a Neo-MAN and you are CRETIN for sure !!

People that believe what you believe ONLY quote Paul when it suits you and Paul was not given the MYSTERY until Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 , around 33AD and you have yet to explain how Paul was saved !!

In verse 31 , But these are written , that Jesus is the Christ and that means the MESSIAH !!

Is that how we are saved , BELIEVE in the MESSIAH , so when did you become a Jew ??

Just 7 verse before verse 30 , Christ gave you the Holy Spirit to REMIT SINS , so how is that coming along , in John 20:23 ??

You are the one , writing FAKE NEWS for today and are TRYING to mix WORKS with GRACE !!

By verse 31 , to be saved JUST believing , you get LIFE through His name ??

dan p

It is amusing observing confused Jerry calling the Hybrids...Neo-Mads.

:chuckle:

The Hybrids also confuse the heck out of Ephsians 2.

Eph. 2: 16 is actually referring to FORMERLY LOST Jews and Gentiles who believed AFTER Acts 9...

Eph. 2 is just Romans 1:18-3:31 further elaborated on.

It is merely a bit more of "the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery - which was kept secret since the world began - but now - is made manifest - through preaching committed unto" Paul...

In other words, Eph. 2 is the state of things after Paul himself was concluded SPIRITUAL Uncircumcision with his Unbelieving Nation at Acts 7.

After which he was then saved - while he was SPIRITUAL Uncircumcision - and then commissioned with preaching the very gospel under which he himself was saved - the gospel of the Uncircumcision, Gal. 1; Gal. 2.

Note how Eph. 2 starts out, Paul reckoning himself among their formerly lost SPIRITUAL UNCIRCUMCISION number.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Why?

Towards what end?

Towards His PROPHESIED "Israel of God" purpose?

Towards that?

Towards a mere do-over?

Nope.

Rather, towards ANOTHER aspect of God's plan and purpose...

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

There it is - an eternal purpose - one unto "OUR glory" in "the Lord OF GLORY..."

No more "mysterious ways..."

Rather "having revealed the mystery of his will" - the very Key to sorting out what's what as to what in the world God's will might be as to this, that, or the other...

The Mystery Of His Will not only in the here and now, but towards that glory IN Glory Itself then...

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This here...to paraphrase the beginning of 1 Corinthians 1 and 2...

You Corinthians have the salvation part that was accomplished by the Cross - but that was not ALL that took place at that Cross...

Which you are not yet ready for, you Corinthians - not given your continued spiritual immaturity, writes Paul...

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

More took place at that Cross than merely Christ dying for sins.

For God also had a Mystery salvation in that Cross - with its OWN purpose.

A purpose concerning a NEW Creature - "OUR glory" in "the Lord OF GLORY."

This NEW Agency IN GLORY ITSELF judging over ALL Creation...not just the Earth (as with the Israel of God over the Nations of the Earth, Is. 66)...

Much more!

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

A hybrid, DanP is a mix of things that differ, into some new thing, that does not, but sure appears to...

Anyone who mixes God's PROPHESIED Purpose in The Cross, WITH His UN-PROPHESIED Purpose in The Cross...

IS...a Hybrid.

No, not you, DanP, I often find you and I are on the same page.

More often than not.

And often, even when you conclude otherwise.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[DAN P]

It is amusing observing confused Jerry calling the Hybrids...Neo-Mads.

:chuckle:

The Hybrids also confuse the heck out of Ephsians 2.

Eph. 2: 16 is actually referring to FORMERLY LOST Jews and Gentiles who believed AFTER Acts 9...

Eph. 2 is just Romans 1:18-3:31 further elaborated on.

It is merely a bit more of "the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery - which was kept secret since the world began - but now - is made manifest - through preaching committed unto" Paul...

In other words, Eph. 2 is the state of things after Paul himself was concluded SPIRITUAL Uncircumcision with his Unbelieving Nation at Acts 7.

After which he was then saved - while he was SPIRITUAL Uncircumcision - and then commissioned with preaching the very gospel under which he himself was saved - the gospel of the Uncircumcision, Gal. 1; Gal. 2.

Note how Eph. 2 starts out, Paul reckoning himself among their formerly lost SPIRITUAL UNCIRCUMCISION number.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Why?

Towards what end?

Towards His PROPHESIED "Israel of God" purpose?

Towards that?

Towards a mere do-over?

Nope.

Rather, towards ANOTHER aspect of God's plan and purpose...

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

There it is - an eternal purpose - one unto "OUR glory" in "the Lord OF GLORY..."

No more "mysterious ways..."

Rather "having revealed the mystery of his will" - the very Key to sorting out what's what as to what in the world God's will might be as to this, that, or the other...

The Mystery Of His Will not only in the here and now, but towards that glory IN Glory Itself then...

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This here...to paraphrase the beginning of 1 Corinthians 1 and 2...

You Corinthians have the salvation part that was accomplished by the Cross - but that was not ALL that took place at that Cross...

Which you are not yet ready for, you Corinthians - not given your continued spiritual immaturity, writes Paul...

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

More took place at that Cross than merely Christ dying for sins.

For God also had a Mystery salvation in that Cross - with its OWN purpose.

A purpose concerning a NEW Creature - "OUR glory" in "the Lord OF GLORY."

This NEW Agency IN GLORY ITSELF judging over ALL Creation...not just the Earth (as with the Israel of God over the Nations of the Earth, Is. 66)...

Much more!

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

A hybrid, DanP is a mix of things that differ, into some new thing, that does not, but sure appears to...

Anyone who mixes God's PROPHESIED Purpose in The Cross, WITH His UN-PROPHESIED Purpose in The Cross...

IS...a Hybrid.

No, not you, DanP, I often find you and I are on the same page.

More often than not.

And often, even when you conclude otherwise.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

Hi , danoh , and we would aways be on the same page , IF you would listen to me !!

Everyone has a voice and many times it SPURS me ON !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is amusing observing confused Jerry calling the Hybrids...Neo-Mads.

Your so-called MAD teaching contradicts the teaching of one of the giants of Mid-Acts dispensationalism, J. C. O'Hair here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Your so-called Mid Acts dispensationalism is a hybrid because it is mixed with Bullingerism. Besides that, you have already said that you have a better understanding of these things than J.C. O'Hair.

But you haven't yet given any evidence from the Bible which explains why you believe that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body and others were not. What was the determining factor which decided the destiny of the Jewish believers?

 

[DAN P]

Your so-called MAD teaching contradicts the teaching of one of the giants of Mid-Acts dispensationalism, J. C. O'Hair here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Your so-called Mid Acts dispensationalism is a hybrid because it is mixed with Bullingerism. Besides that, you have already said that you have a better understanding of these things than J.C. O'Hair.

But you haven't yet given any evidence from the Bible which explains why you believe that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body and others were not. What was the determining factor which decided the destiny of the Jewish believers?

Hi Jerry , and you can believe Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 that there CANNOT BE /ENI Jews and Gentiles is a simple text that confounds you and not everyone believes Paul , like you !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry , and you can believe Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 that there CANNOT BE /ENI Jews and Gentiles is a simple text that confounds you and not everyone believes Paul , like you !!

It doesn't confound anyone but you.

And you continue to dodge my question. Look at what is said at 1 Corinthians 12:13 and then answer my question.

Were Jews baptized into the Body of Christ?

 

[DAN P]

It doesn't confound anyone but you.

And you continue to dodge my question. Look at what is said at 1 Corinthians 12:13 and then answer my question.

Were Jews baptized into the Body of Christ?

Hi Jerry and it is more than 3 times and your mind must be on IGNORE !!


In the first century there were many Jews saved that were BAPTIZO / PLACED into the B O C !

And all of Paul's helpers were JEWS and are in the B O C . do you have it now ??

Why Jews can NOT be saved is because of 2 Cor 3:13-15 as it says , that all JEWS have a VAIL that covers there HEART , do you see that ??

Verse 16 explains that when Jews TURN towards the Lord , the VAIL IS BEING TAKEN AWAY , do you see that , they have to TURN TOWARDS THE LORD and believe Rom 10:9 and confess Him as LORD !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Your so-called MAD teaching contradicts the teaching of one of the giants of Mid-Acts dispensationalism, J. C. O'Hair here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Your so-called Mid Acts dispensationalism is a hybrid because it is mixed with Bullingerism. Besides that, you have already said that you have a better understanding of these things than J.C. O'Hair.

But you haven't yet given any evidence from the Bible which explains why you believe that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body and others were not. What was the determining factor which decided the destiny of the Jewish believers?

You've proven nothing other than your usual cluelessness.

Even the Acts 9 / Acts Hybrids (mix of Bullinger with Stam) on here well know that I have ALWAYS spoken VERY highly of J.C. O'Hair.

Doesn't mean I always agree with his positions.

O'Hair himself would have approved.

The man died in 1958 - 60 years ago - still seeking after, and ever open to having any greater clarity pointed out to him, no matter who might point out that greater clarity to him.

His personal driver (after he was up in years) and others of his congregation have told me this about him themselves, and each with their obvious love for that great man his congregation was well known for.

I spoke to one of their younger ones about two weeks ago, as we keep in touch and compare notes.

I have the highest of high regard for O'Hair and his people.

Again, the answer is that God has a TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

Prophecy: The Israel of God and the Twelve Apostles over the Kingdoms of the Earth one day.

Mystery: The Body of Christ and that One Apostle over the Heavenly Host in the Heavenly Realm one day.

Both realms returned unto the Father by the Son with The Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.

Your problem is you know little of the Heavenly aspect: the very subject and basis of the Mystery's "citizenship."

What Paul refers to as "our glory."

Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[musterion]

Jerry believes there's two gospels in operation today, one of which is a Messianic gospel requiring God to acknowledge Jews as distinctly Jewish.

No idea if Jerry has always secretly been this kind of heretic or recently fell victim to it, but he's on permanent ignore for me, lest he repents.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry , and you can believe Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 that there CANNOT BE /ENI Jews and Gentiles is a simple text that confounds you and not everyone believes Paul , like you !!

You are the one who doesn't believe Paul. He is in the Body of Christ and after being in the Body said that he was a Jew.

But according to you he was no longer a Jew because according to you there are no Jews in the Body.

You are really getting tiresome with your ridiculous ideas.

 

[Danoh]

You are the one who doesn't believe Paul. He is in the Body of Christ and after being in the Body said that he was a Jew.

But according to you he was no longer a Jew because according to you there are no Jews in the Body.

You are really getting tiresome with your ridiculous ideas.

Yep, yours is most definitely just one more Hybrid (or mix of things that normally do not go together).

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry believes there's two gospels in operation today, one of which is a Messianic gospel requiring God to acknowledge Jews as distinctly Jewish.

The following words of the Apostle John make it plain that even today people can be saved by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20-31).​

Yes, those who believe that truth are born of God when they believe:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).
​

We see that happening here:

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

Were you not aware of these passages?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yep, yours is most definitely just one more Hybrid (or mix of things that normally do not go together).

Yea, and you think that you know more about Mid-Acts dispensationalism than J.C. O'Hair!!! Only in your dreams!

According to your views the fathers of systemized Mid Acts were hybrids!

That can only make sense to someone who is delusional!

 

[musterion]

Who are you trying to convince, Two-Gospel?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you really think that the Apostle John made an error when he wrote the following?:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).