Why volunteer for the armed forces?


Well-known member
Wrong again. I want personal responsibility to be taught to ALL citizens, as I taught it to my children, as I taught it to the scouts I worked with, as I taught it to the students I worked with.
"Personal responsibility" means what, exactly? Give examples.


Well-known member
You and I will never agree on any of this. You turn everything upside down and inside out with your reasoning.
I'm sorry for the inadvertent confusion. I thought that using "institutions of liberalism," "institutions of liberal democracy," "liberal institutions," etc., was going to be clearer, especially when I offered examples of them. I've been using the first meaning of the word "institution" as found in the following Wiktionary link:

A custom or practice of a society or community.

[e.g.] The institution of marriage...

The "society or community" I've been calling "polity" or political body or nation, and the distinguishing institutions of liberal polities are the liberal institutions.
Today's "liberal" institutions are nothing but methods of control and are used to stomp out liberty. That you fail to see that is telling.

Tell me which of today's "liberal institutions" are protecting the bill of rights. The DOJ? The FBI? The presidency? Public education? Academia?
Rule of law, separation of powers (including independent judiciary), civilian control of the military, protection of human rights, constitutionalism, are examples of the liberal institutions that I mean.

I've seen people calling these "principles"---especially "political principles"---of liberal democracies, but for me a principle is really more of an idea, while institutions are actual practices that instantiate or objectively demonstrate a principle, like the example above of marriage. It's more than just an idea that we agree on, we actually get married, that's an institution.

The polities that practice these liberal institutions are liberal, not just the ones that pay them lip service but who basically dissolve them through negligence and corruption.


Well-known member
In this thread you've heard from many, including me, describe their views about the responsibility they owe to the country in terms of military service.

Did you overlook that?
What I've mostly heard is that people join the army for personal reasons, or to protect their Freedom.

ok doser

Well-known member
Something patriotic perhaps: defend my country, responsibility towards my country- that sort of thing.
We had a surge of patriotism and "defend my country" thinking after Pearl Harbor, and again after Tonkin Gulf. Definitely after 911. I'm of an age now where I'm less easily fooled by authorities and the media into responding emotionally to what I recognize as manipulation.

My patriotism personally has manifested in raising my sons, working with other young men in scouting, and working in fields that have aspects of altruism - health care and education. In both of those cases I have been burned out by the irrationalism and the emotionalism that I see as integral parts of them and am no longer willing to endure.
Which reminds me- you spoke of personal responsibility- but haven't defined it yet.
Perhaps it's best described by the Scout Oath - duty to God and Country and others, realized by self discipline.


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ok doser

Well-known member
So you'd volunteer for the army, but if drafted- you'd evade the draft and go to Canada?
I would volunteer for the army if I believed my country was in danger. If I was drafted for a foreign war such as Vietnam or Korea or Kuwait or Iraq, at this point in my life I would not. I may have chosen differently when I was younger and stupider.