I already have. But this does not mean that I am not to live a righteous life.
Why Law and Religion Causes Sin and Hypocrisy
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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I already have. But this does not mean that I am not to live a righteous life.
We live righteous lives not to be saved, but for the purpose of being witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.
Yes. I believe that Jesus died for our sins so that we would be forgiven, and that this is for people of all time. Righteousness is not the requirement to be saved. It is the result of having been saved. But to be righteous, to do right, to do righteousness, to do right by God, to live a righteous life, is something that every person on the face of the earth is supposed to do, whether they know of salvation in Jesus Christ or not. Thus, we preach the gospel, with one consequence or benefit being people living righteous lives. The problem was sin. But we are all to obey God's commandments. All can be extended to include or initially includes even those who are not saved. For, we cannot say that there are no punishments for breaking God's Law for the unsaved. And yet for those who are saved or have not sinned a sin leading to death, though death is the consequence of and for sin, we are saved in Jesus (must a person be saved by Christ know that they have been saved by Christ?) and not subject to punishment but or except by God or we are subject to punishment even that it would begin with us should those in the family of God or the body of Christ the church or among Israel would recognize that judgment begins with us (is this the cleaning out of that which is evil, sin, or transgression among us or a part of us or within us) does this involve punishment for sin leading to death etc... was this not the body of Christ but was Israel God's Holy Law with Judges Elders a Ruling Body etc... whatever was there, and yet a person in the body of Christ the body of Messiah can indeed become of Israel if the person is not already of Israel, still a person who is righteous or who has not committed a sin leading to death has still sinned as we all have except for Christ Messiah, Yeshua, Jesus, who never sinned ever, that person still needs to be saved. Even the person who believes that they are saved and lives a righteous life needs to be saved if they are not saved. Then righteousness is good, and the result of salvation, but it is something we do once saved and something which we are not excluded from having not yet been saved. There is a standard and it is the same for all people. It is God's Holy Law. What would or does God Judge us by? The standard for Jesus was the Law, I believe. Then the standard can be Jesus or the Law because Jesus fulfilled the Law. I do not know if He did more than what God's Law required, but I do know that His ministry is better than that of Moses. God's Law is the Word of God, His Law, His Instruction for us, in how to live and right living. Is Jesus' ministry better because He died for our sins or because His righteousness exceeded the Law? He observed and taught the Law. He never taught against the Law. Did He teach more than the Law in keeping with God's Word which God gave for Him to speak share relate teach? Or did He teach exactly what was God's Law being that none of God's Law has been done away with abolished or annulled? I live a righteous life because God wants me to, regardless of if the result of salvation is something that can be measured as righteousness by fact or the product of the born again life. If the Spirit of God dwells in believers by faith, and the new birth means that a person now lives for God, was it possible ever, from time before Christ or salvation in Christ, for a person to live a righteous life? Possible with Jesus, and possible in Jesus, and even for those who came before Jesus who did not know that Jesus had already come maybe, whether they observed God's Law and were called righteous rather than wicked, that anyone could be saved then, or if they knew of Jesus that He would come or not, for obviously some did. Do we have instance in the Bible of people who were saved before the coming of Christ and were they born again or did they have the Spirit of God dwelling in them by faith as the result of God's salvation of them by His Spirit? Is salvation about facts believed or a changed life by God's Spirit, obedience and righteousness, eternal life, etc...? For forgiveness of sins is a part of salvation, and there is an outcome of the life of faith or the life lived in faith (by the Spirit of God?) when even obedience, righteousness, sanctification, results in eternal life whether the Spirit of God ushers the person into salvation from the time they were born again until the time that they die or not. So I need to understand what it means when it says "will never die". Can you accept any of this or teach me? I have seen you post positively and that indicates either a change in your thinking or a long course drive or journey to assure no one is left behind by or in false teaching.
Shalom.
Jacob
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Jacob
You are obsessed with your righteousness, which makes you in bondage to the law. You need to be free from the law. As long as you are in bondage to the law you will sin. Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12.
We are free from the law because Jesus fulfilled the law for us and then abolished it for us, Ephesians 2:15. You have trouble believing that because you don't understand the Gospel. The one new man in Ephesians 2:15 is that man that lives by faith and not by the law.
People were saved in the Old Testament the same way that they are saved today "BY FAITH". In the Old Testament they believed that God would provide them with a savior, THEY BELIEVED GOD, Romans 4:3. Their faith, NOT THE LAW, was counted for righteousness. The law does not count for righteousness. If anything the law reveals sin, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Those that were saved in the New Testament were saved because they heard and believed the Gospel. The moment that one hears and believes the Gospel they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and are "In Christ". I don't think that you are there. If you believed the Gospel you would not be so occupied with your righteousness. Christ is our righteousness, NOT THE LAW.
You are obsessed with your righteousness, which makes you in bondage to the law. You need to be free from the law. As long as you are in bondage to the law you will sin. Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12.
We are free from the law because Jesus fulfilled the law for us and then abolished it for us, Ephesians 2:15. You have trouble believing that because you don't understand the Gospel. The one new man in Ephesians 2:15 is that man that lives by faith and not by the law.
People were saved in the Old Testament the same way that they are saved today "BY FAITH". In the Old Testament they believed that God would provide them with a savior, THEY BELIEVED GOD, Romans 4:3. Their faith, NOT THE LAW, was counted for righteousness. The law does not count for righteousness. If anything the law reveals sin, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Those that were saved in the New Testament were saved because they heard and believed the Gospel. The moment that one hears and believes the Gospel they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and are "In Christ". I don't think that you are there. If you believed the Gospel you would not be so occupied with your righteousness. Christ is our righteousness, NOT THE LAW.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be righteous or living a life of righteousness. Righteousness is something that God desires of us. I am not in bondage to the law. Here is a verse that will help you. It helped me.
Romans 7:13 NASB - 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
Take away the commandment and sin is not sin anymore? No. You cannot take away the commandments.
Here are scriptures that say that the law has been abolished for Christians.
Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13, Hebrews 8:13.
I understand that the enmity was abolished. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
well said, You are obseesed to be righteous and nothing wrong about it. We all should be obsessed to be righteous.
I am not obsessed and no obsession.
You are doing so well, Jacob.
bless you
Shalom.
Of course he did. To be under the law is to be under judgment and condemnation. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21.
You apparently do not hear or understand what the law demands.
Happy Chanukah!
There is nothing wrong with observing God's Law. What do you mean by saying or being under the law? When is it that you believe that a person is under the law? Do you believe that it is when a person observes it or does not observe it and do they need to have said that they do?
Shalom.
Jacob
Do you have your quote right?
There is nothing wrong with observing God's Law. What do you mean by saying or being under the law? When is it that you believe that a person is under the law? Do you believe that it is when a person observes it or does not observe it and do they need to have said that they do?
Shalom.
Jacob
If you observe it, or do it, you are under it and will be subject to it, Galatians 3:10.
It is like committing spiritual suicide.
That is not what Paul is saying.
"For as many as are under the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10.
What are the works of the law? What is the works of the law?
Obedience to God is not something that Paul teaches against.
No, Paul teaches that... "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. The law will not save you, nor will the law make you acceptable to God.
Read the context for what Paul is quoting and see the point that he is making here in Romans. No one is righteous, true. The law doesn't save and it doesn't make you acceptable to God, true. But God wants you to obey Him. Do you agree with this but then find it wrong to say that God wants you to obey (or, observe) His Law? You are to live by or according to the Spirit of God. If the Spirit of God does not dwell in you then you do not belong to God and Christ. I should get the quote right.
Romans 8:9 NASB.
What does God want you to do? God wants you to believe in his Son Jesus Christ and live by faith in him.
Living by laws and rules is not living by faith.