Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 5

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
But you said that these laws ban "certain treatments that are considered medically unsound and harmful".

What treatments? Electroshock therapy, which hasn't been used in over 50 years?

Specifically conversion and reparative therapies, these are the most common still in practice but there are others which are less common, that seek to change a person's sexual orientation based on outdated or unproven pseudo-scientific theories that have little evidence that they are effective but show considerable potential to do harm to those who fail under such therapies.

Be more specific, as the terms "conversion and reparative therapies" are too general. Other than this supposed "electroconvulsive therapy" that you speak of below, what other types of therapy are being used that is "considered medically unsound and harmful"?

Do your homework Kit, when you make a statement, I want information to back it.

By the way, Electroconvulsive therapy, the correct name for it, is still in use and is an effective treatment for certain major depressive disorders.

So licensed therapist and EX homosexual David Pickup lied in front of a congressional committee when he stated that it hadn't been used in the past 50 years? How come Samuel "S&M" Brinton and his fellow child molesters didn't call him on that and provide evidence that it has? You should be able to provide the following since S&M Sam didn't.

1) Name of person/people who have been subjected to it.
2) Date(s) of incident
3) Place of incident
4) Name of therapist that conducted said "eletroconvulsive therapy".

As you can see, I'm starting to require proof when the LGBTQ continues to spew out lies.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
That lie has already been addressed by psychologists who don't goosestep to the LGBT band. Give it a rest.

We can review again how Frank "I have nothing against humans having sex with animals as long as the animal doesn't mind, and it rarely does" Kameny and his fellow homosexual activists bullied the APA into removing homosexuality from it's list of mental disorders if you like.

I didn't think so.

Yes please don't

You are aware though that Frank Kameny spoke to NAMBLA aren't you?

https://americansfortruth.com/2007/...frank-kameny-spoke-at-nambla-meeting-in-1981/

What is it about homosexuals and pedophilia? (They likez em young).

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Admit it, those in the LGBTQ so-called "community" don't want to deny youth all of the wonderful things that come with being a homosexual:

Being HIV positive, having anal cancer and the numerous sexually transmitted diseases that runs rampant amongst homosexuals (syphilis, gonorrhea, etc. etc. etc.), alcoholism, drug addiction, violence, suicide and early death.

"The problem" of course is engaging in unnatural i.e. homosexual acts, and many youth with same sex desires want a way out. Unfortunately, you won't let them.

No, what they don't want is having youth lives and families destroyed by dangerous treatments.

There you go using LGBTQ lies talking points again.

Once again, provide the following:

1) Name of family/families whose lives were destroyed by "dangerous treatments".
2) Date of incident(s)
3) Location of incident(s)
4) Name of therapist(s)
5) Type of "dangerous treatment" used.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I must have missed your explanation of what "sound medical treatments" are. Perhaps handing out condoms to those youth with homosexual desires at their school would be "sound medical treatment" in your mind?

There are a few, there is the Gay affirmative psychotherapy which helps a patient learn to accept their sexuality as it is.

Oh you mean 'gay affirmation therapy', where a person goes to a so-called 'therapist' and the so-called 'therapist' teaches the person how to feel better about engaging in a spiritually dead lifestyle that if full of disease, misery and often premature death?

That doesn't fit under the term "medical treatment" Kit. Try again.

If however they seriously want to change how they view their sexuality and/or their social and religious environment creates a serious conflict for them there is Sexual identity therapy (SIT).

I just started reading about SIT today, it seems to be a safer, sounder alternative to conversion therapy that as of 2009 has gained the approval of the APA and some members of NARTH.

What members of NARTH? Names please.

It seems to have the advantage of if a patient really wants to get to the balance in their life that those folks we call 'EX-Gays' have, it provides a path to get there.

I would love to talk about Mark Yarhouse, who is one of the so-called 'founders' of Sexual Identity Therapy.

http://sexualidentityinstitute.org/

I see that good ole Warren Throckmorton is involved in it as well.

Boy, this is gonna be fun.

 

[MrDante]

so you can't find any resource on the internet to support your claim that....

I told you to go read the book....(yeah right :chuckle you do know what a book is don't you?

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Be more specific, as the terms "conversion and reparative therapies" are too general. Other than this supposed "electroconvulsive therapy" that you speak of below, what other types of therapy are being used that is "considered medically unsound and harmful"?

Do your homework Kit, when you make a statement, I want information to back it.

You asking me to get down further in the weeds than I am qualified to speak to, unlike you, I am not going to pretend I know more than the medical professionals but I'll try.

The therapies are often based on outdated or even wrong theories on what causes homosexuality.

One is the belief that homosexuality is must be caused by some trauma in the person's life, they must have been raped by someone for example. The therapists go digging for memories of this trauma and as we have seen in the satanic scares of the 90s, when dealing with a young, troubled mind it is not hard to find one, even if it doesn't really exist in real life.

Another is the belief that homosexuality comes from a smoothing overprotective mother or a distant or hateful father or vice versa. The patient is then indoctrinated with the belief that his/her parents are the reason why they are gay.

When and if the therapy fails the patient is left not only still dealing with conflicting issues but now his relationship with family and others close to him is also in ruins.

The therapies also approach the issue with the assumption that just because some people appear to be able to 'change' their sexuality, often by completely forgetting that bisexuals exist, it is assumed that everyone can do this.

So licensed therapist and EX homosexual David Pickup lied in front of a congressional committee when he stated that it hadn't been used in the past 50 years?

I wouldn't say he lied, he might not be aware that ECT is still in use in other fields of treatment or he was talking specifically about its use in aversion therapy where he would be correct that it is no longer used by ethical therapists. But not knowing more of the context and his belief on it I couldn't speculate further.

You are aware though that Frank Kameny spoke to NAMBLA aren't you?

No, and don't care. Your love affair with NAMBLA and pedophiles is your problem. If you want to narrow your crusade to those two subjects, I would happily leave you to it.

Being HIV positive, having anal cancer and the numerous sexually transmitted diseases that runs rampant amongst homosexuals (syphilis, gonorrhea, etc. etc. etc.), alcoholism, drug addiction, violence, suicide and early death.

"The problem" of course is engaging in unnatural i.e. homosexual acts, and many youth with same sex desires want a way out. Unfortunately, you won't let them.

I am not stopping anybody from finding solutions to these problems, I encourage them to do so. I just want them to find the best and safest solution for them and not push them down rabbit holes that may do more harm than good.

Oh you mean 'gay affirmation therapy', where a person goes to a so-called 'therapist' and the so-called 'therapist' teaches the person how to feel better about engaging in a spiritually dead lifestyle that if full of disease, misery and often premature death?

That doesn't fit under the term "medical treatment" Kit. Try again.

Yes and the majority of the medical community disagrees with you. Go get your medical degree and convince the majority of the APA and try again.

What members of NARTH? Names please.

Sorry, the articles I've read so far didn't mention names. If I run across them I will provide them for you.

I would love to talk about Mark Yarhouse, who is one of the so-called 'founders' of Sexual Identity Therapy.

I see that good ole Warren Throckmorton is involved in it as well.

Boy, this is gonna be fun.

You go do that then. You think you would be happy that there is an approved therapy that will let young people deal with their unnatural confused homosexual desires that include the option of not acting on those desires. Or are you just upset because it proves that your claim that they are being denied access to licensed therapists to help them with it is a falsehood?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Be more specific, as the terms "conversion and reparative therapies" are too general. Other than this supposed "electroconvulsive therapy" that you speak of below, what other types of therapy are being used that is "considered medically unsound and harmful"?

Do your homework Kit, when you make a statement, I want information to back it.

You asking me to get down further in the weeds than I am qualified to speak to, unlike you, I am not going to pretend I know more than the medical professionals but I'll try.

You're making statements that things like electroconvulsive therapy is still being used, and I've asked you to provide evidence that it is.

I'm still waiting....

The therapies are often based on outdated or even wrong theories on what causes homosexuality.

Oh look, Kit has moved the goalpost from using electroconvulsive shock therapy on same sex attracted patients to what causes those desires.

If you would like me to cite studies (not LGBTQ approved) spanning a 100 year period on what causes homosexual desires, I'll gladly do so again. Remember that these studies were done by people who were "sympathetic to the homosexual rights movement" (review somewhat recent posts about Irving Bieber and Robert Spitzer).

If you would like to me cite testimonies from those who were honest enough to admit that their same sex desires came from sexual molestation as a child, exposure to pornography, or an overbearing mother or an abusive or distant father I'll gladly do so again.

...When and if the therapy fails the patient is left not only still dealing with conflicting issues but now his relationship with family and others close to him is also in ruins.

The patient's life is "in ruins", hence the reason they sought therapy to help understand and diminish or even overcome their same sex desires. Once the truth about what caused those desires has been established (most patients already know), the therapist helps the patient with such things as forgiveness and/or moving on from not only the self hatred, but hatred towards those who are responsible for his or her unnatural sexual desires.

The therapies also approach the issue with the assumption that just because some people appear to be able to 'change' their sexuality, often by completely forgetting that bisexuals exist, it is assumed that everyone can do this.

Therapy for bisexuality is another topic. Understanding how someone can have homosexual and heterosexual desires at the same time (which I've been told by homosexual activists isn't true, they say that those desires come in stages)is a topic for another post.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So licensed therapist and EX homosexual David Pickup lied in front of a congressional committee when he stated that it hadn't been used in the past 50 years?

I wouldn't say he lied, he might not be aware that ECT is still in use in other fields of treatment or he was talking specifically about its use in aversion therapy where he would be correct that it is no longer used by ethical therapists. But not knowing more of the context and his belief on it I couldn't speculate further.

So you lied.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You are aware though that Frank Kameny spoke to NAMBLA aren't you?

No, and don't care.

So you "don't care" that one of the key people that had homosexuality removed as a mental disorder from the American Psychiatric Association was a pedophile or a promoter of pedophilia?

Your love affair with NAMBLA and pedophiles is your problem. If you want to narrow your crusade to those two subjects, I would happily leave you to it.

I'm again pointing out that the child rapists of the LGBTQ movement don't have children's best interests in mind when they ban therapy for those same sex desires.

(They likez em young).

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
"The problem" of course is engaging in unnatural i.e. homosexual acts, and many youth with same sex desires want a way out. Unfortunately, you won't let them.

I am not stopping anybody from finding solutions to these problems, I encourage them to do so. I just want them to find the best and safest solution for them and not push them down rabbit holes that may do more harm than good.

The "solution" to same sex desires and hence homosexual behavior, which has been shown to be downright deadly, is spiritual and/or psychological therapy to help understand and eventually diminish and possibly overcome those same sex desires.

Again, your LGBTQ movement will have nothing t do with that because it shows that homosexuality is a changeable behavior and hence laws protecting and promoting homosexuality would be shown for what they are:

Lies.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Oh you mean 'gay affirmation therapy', where a person goes to a so-called 'therapist' and the so-called 'therapist' teaches the person how to feel better about engaging in a spiritually dead lifestyle that if full of disease, misery and often premature death?

That doesn't fit under the term "medical treatment" Kit. Try again.

Yes and the majority of the medical community disagrees with you. Go get your medical degree and convince the majority of the APA and try again.

So you're using the term "medical treatments" in conjunction with psychological treatment. I thought so.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
What members of NARTH? Names please.

Sorry, the articles I've read so far didn't mention names. If I run across them I will provide them for you.

Be prepared to back up your statements with evidence Kit. I've been reading about Sexual Identity Therapy and one of the articles stated that a keynote speaker at a NARTH convention spoke highly of it. That doesn't mean that SIT is a good thing, as it appears that it's gay affirmation therapy glossed over with another name.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I would love to talk about Mark Yarhouse, who is one of the so-called 'founders' of Sexual Identity Therapy.

I see that good ole Warren Throckmorton is involved in it as well.

Boy, this is gonna be fun.

You go do that then. You think you would be happy that there is an approved therapy that will let young people deal with their unnatural confused homosexual desires that include the option of not acting on those desires. Or are you just upset because it proves that your claim that they are being denied access to licensed therapists to help them with it is a falsehood?

While reviewing various articles about Sexual Identity Therapy and it's founders, I see the word "gay Christian" used quite a bit. That in itself is a huge red flag. How about we shorten this debate from your continual falsehoods about reparative/conversion therapy (unless you need to add something) and concentrate on your newest falsehood:

Sexual Identity Therapy?

I should also point out that Dr. Robert Gagnon explicitly described conversion/reparative therapy in the article that I posted several pages back.

https://www.josephnicolosi.com/collection/robert-a-j-gagnon

If you have issues with anything that Gagnon has written, address it here.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

While Kit the Coyote writes out his long reply to my previous post, I wanted to thank Peter LaBarbera at Americans For Truth About Homosexuality (AFTAH) for not only exposing Sexual Identity Therapy (SIT) co-founder Warren Throckmorton, but SIT itself.

LaBarbera has catalogued numerous anti Christian/pro homosexual things that Throckmorton has done since abandoning Judeo-Christian doctrine and joining the LGBTQ movement.

https://americansfortruth.com/issues/warren-throckmorton/

Regarding Sexual Identity Therapy:

Can a Faithful Christian Practice Yarhouse’s and Throckmorton’s ‘Sexual Identity Therapy’?

Wednesday, April 28th, 2010

Laurie Higgins says ‘No’
“How can a Christian even in the service of mental or psychological consonance be open to a client assuming a same-sex identity when this therapist knows that consonance comes at the cost of his or her client’s eternal life?” — Laurie Higgins
https://americansfortruth.com/2010/...es-and-throckmortons-sexual-identity-therapy/

Is Grove City College Still ‘Authentically Christian’ if It Abides Pro-‘Gay’ Professor Warren Throckmorton and his ‘Sexual Identity Therapy’?
Therapeutic approach values “gay identity”

https://americansfortruth.com/2010/...abides-pro-gay-professor-warren-throckmorton/

Homosexual activist/fraudulent Christian Warren Throckmorton, co founder of Sexual Identity Therapy and a Professor at the supposedly Christian Grove City College.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

You're making statements that things like electroconvulsive therapy is still being used, and I've asked you to provide evidence that it is.

I'm still waiting....

Electroconvulsive Therapy and Other Depression Treatments

Oh look, Kit has moved the goalpost from using electroconvulsive shock therapy on same sex attracted patients to what causes those desires.

If you would like me to cite studies (not LGBTQ approved) spanning a 100 year period on what causes homosexual desires, I'll gladly do so again. Remember that these studies were done by people who were "sympathetic to the homosexual rights movement" (review somewhat recent posts about Irving Bieber and Robert Spitzer).

If you would like to me cite testimonies from those who were honest enough to admit that their same sex desires came from sexual molestation as a child, exposure to pornography, or an overbearing mother or an abusive or distant father I'll gladly do so again.

I'm sure you can, please don't. You are absolutely correct that there are cases where trauma and abuse occurred and contributed to the subject's mental distress. It doesn't make the assumptions and means by which conversion therapy approaches the issue right.

The patient's life is "in ruins", hence the reason they sought therapy to help understand and diminish or even overcome their same sex desires. Once the truth about what caused those desires has been established (most patients already know), the therapist helps the patient with such things as forgiveness and/or moving on from not only the self hatred, but hatred towards those who are responsible for his or her unnatural sexual desires.

And when it fails, their lives are in even more ruins. Which is the point, if the therapy is more likely to do more harm than whatever good it does, it is not a good approach.

Therapy for bisexuality is another topic. Understanding how someone can have homosexual and heterosexual desires at the same time (which I've been told by homosexual activists isn't true, they say that those desires come in stages)is a topic for another post.

Oh I know, one of the most hateful comments I received about being bisexual was from a self-identified homosexual activist. Bigotry exists in all groups.

So you lied.

No, I did not.

So you "don't care" that one of the key people that had homosexuality removed as a mental disorder from the American Psychiatric Association was a pedophile or a promoter of pedophilia?

No, I don't care. The decision was made by the organization and most every other professional medical and mental health organization in the Western World ruled similarly. I'm not concerned about specific individuals in the organization, that is their lookout. If you feel that this one individual has somehow pulled the wool over the eyes of all these other professionals you are more than welcome to present your evidence to the APA and fix the problem. You remember that hard work I keep mentioning, that would be part of it.

The "solution" to same sex desires and hence homosexual behavior, which has been shown to be downright deadly, is spiritual and/or psychological therapy to help understand and eventually diminish and possibly overcome those same sex desires.

The solution to those who are conflicted and suffer emotional issues with same-sex desires is spiritual and/or psychological therapy to help them understand and eventually resolve those conflicts in a way that lets them be a well balanced, functional member of society. If some achieve that by becoming an EX-Gay, good for them. That solution will not work for everyone though.

So you're using the term "medical treatments" in conjunction with psychological treatment. I thought so.

If I am confusing the terms somehow I apologize, I see psychological treatments as medical treatments.

Be prepared to back up your statements with evidence Kit. I've been reading about Sexual Identity Therapy and one of the articles stated that a keynote speaker at a NARTH convention spoke highly of it. That doesn't mean that SIT is a good thing, as it appears that it's gay affirmation therapy glossed over with another name.

It does appear to be an approach halfway between with what I hope is the best aspects of both and not the worst.

While reviewing various articles about Sexual Identity Therapy and it's founders, I see the word "gay Christian" used quite a bit. That in itself is a huge red flag. How about we shorten this debate from your continual falsehoods about reparative/conversion therapy (unless you need to add something) and concentrate on your newest falsehood:

Sexual Identity Therapy?

I should also point out that Dr. Robert Gagnon explicitly described conversion/reparative therapy in the article that I posted several pages back.

https://www.josephnicolosi.com/collection/robert-a-j-gagnon

If you have issues with anything that Gagnon has written, address it here.

There are gays who identify as Christians and there are Christian churches that accept homosexual members. Now I know many evangelicals have a no true Scotsman argument on the issue but I am not going to judge who or who is not a Christian but take them at their word.

I'm not qualified to get into the weeds of SIT, I've only known about it for a couple of days and read a few high-level articles on it. I like that it seems to focus on the actual problems the patient is dealing with instead of trying to apply a one size fits all approach. And I like that it is approved by the APA. About all I can say about it at this point.

Interestingly, Dr. Nicolosi's site set off my security filters on my web browser. It seems to be flagged under the categories of unethical, misleading and a scam. It has low ratings for trustworthiness and child safety. I didn't see any flags for malicious software and I have some trust in my script filters so I went to it anyway.

I have nothing really to note on the article, I skimmed it but I'm not interested in whether or not Christians throw RT under the bus. In my opinion, they should defer to the professionals in this case. The professionals have thrown it under the bus and that is what matters in this case.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You're making statements that things like electroconvulsive therapy is still being used, and I've asked you to provide evidence that it is.

I'm still waiting....

Electroconvulsive Therapy and Other Depression Treatments

Get to the part where it's used for therapy to overcome homosexual desires. Remember the requirements:

1) Name of person it was used on.
2) Location it was used.
3) Date it was used.
4) Therapist that used it.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Oh look, Kit has moved the goalpost from using electroconvulsive shock therapy on same sex attracted patients to what causes those desires.

If you would like me to cite studies (not LGBTQ approved) spanning a 100 year period on what causes homosexual desires, I'll gladly do so again. Remember that these studies were done by people who were "sympathetic to the homosexual rights movement" (review somewhat recent posts about Irving Bieber and Robert Spitzer).

If you would like to me cite testimonies from those who were honest enough to admit that their same sex desires came from sexual molestation as a child, exposure to pornography, or an overbearing mother or an abusive or distant father I'll gladly do so again.

I'm sure you can, please don't. You are absolutely correct that there are cases where trauma and abuse occurred and contributed to the subject's mental distress. It doesn't make the assumptions and means by which conversion therapy approaches the issue right.

So addressing what has caused someone's same sex attractions shouldn't be used by therapists?

If a woman seeks therapy for emotional problems she's developed after being raped, that subject should be ignored?


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The patient's life is "in ruins", hence the reason they sought therapy to help understand and diminish or even overcome their same sex desires. Once the truth about what caused those desires has been established (most patients already know), the therapist helps the patient with such things as forgiveness and/or moving on from not only the self hatred, but hatred towards those who are responsible for his or her unnatural sexual desires.

And when it fails, their lives are in even more ruins. Which is the point, if the therapy is more likely to do more harm than whatever good it does, it is not a good approach.

As we've seen, living the lie of homosexuality does more harm than good: Disease, misery and often times early death, and let's not forget spiritual death.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Therapy for bisexuality is another topic. Understanding how someone can have homosexual and heterosexual desires at the same time (which I've been told by homosexual activists isn't true, they say that those desires come in stages)is a topic for another post.

Oh I know, one of the most hateful comments I received about being bisexual was from a self-identified homosexual activist. Bigotry exists in all groups.

Coming from your LGBTQ allies no less. Thanks for showing that your so-called 'community' is full of hatred.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So you "don't care" that one of the key people that had homosexuality removed as a mental disorder from the American Psychiatric Association was a pedophile or a promoter of pedophilia?

No, I don't care. The decision was made by the organization and most every other professional medical and mental health organization in the Western World ruled similarly. I'm not concerned about specific individuals in the organization, that is their lookout. If you feel that this one individual has somehow pulled the wool over the eyes of all these other professionals you are more than welcome to present your evidence to the APA and fix the problem. You remember that hard work I keep mentioning, that would be part of it.

As lesbian and Kameny ally Barbara Gittings stated: "“It never was a medical decision—and that’s why I think the action came so fast. After all, it was only three years from the time that feminists and gays first zapped the APA at a behavior therapy session to the time that the Board of Trustees voted in 1973 to approve removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders. It was a political move.”
http://tcfamily.org/Things/APA/1973 Decision/intimidating_the_APA.htm


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
While reviewing various articles about Sexual Identity Therapy and it's founders, I see the word "gay Christian" used quite a bit. That in itself is a huge red flag. How about we shorten this debate from your continual falsehoods about reparative/conversion therapy (unless you need to add something) and concentrate on your newest falsehood:

Sexual Identity Therapy?

I should also point out that Dr. Robert Gagnon explicitly described conversion/reparative therapy in the article that I posted several pages back.

https://www.josephnicolosi.com/colle...ert-a-j-gagnon

If you have issues with anything that Gagnon has written, address it here.

There are gays who identify as Christians and there are Christian churches that accept homosexual members. Now I know many evangelicals have a no true Scotsman argument on the issue but I am not going to judge who or who is not a Christian but take them at their word.

Let Holy Scripture be the judge: 1 Corinthians 6:11
There is no such thing as a "Gay Christian" even though some Christians struggle with homosexual desires. They've left their homosexual identity behind when they became followers of Christ.

I'm not qualified to get into the weeds of SIT, I've only known about it for a couple of days and read a few high-level articles on it. I like that it seems to focus on the actual problems the patient is dealing with instead of trying to apply a one size fits all approach. And I like that it is approved by the APA. About all I can say about it at this point.

You're the one that brought it up so defend it. I looked into it just this morning and found it to be a fraudulent movement based on what's been written by LaBarbera and my own research.

Interestingly, Dr. Nicolosi's site set off my security filters on my web browser. It seems to be flagged under the categories of unethical, misleading and a scam. It has low ratings for trustworthiness and child safety. I didn't see any flags for malicious software and I have some trust in my script filters so I went to it anyway.

Which shows how much influence the LGBTQ movement has (or perhaps your "security filters" allow websites like the Advocate, Queerty, Joe My god, etc. and not pro Judeo-Christian websites?

I have nothing really to note on the article, I skimmed it but I'm not interested in whether or not Christians throw RT under the bus. In my opinion, they should defer to the professionals in this case. The professionals have thrown it under the bus and that is what matters in this case.

Professionals like Frank Kameny and the child molesters who make up the LGBTQ movement.

Anyway, you know your limitations when it comes to debate.

Moving on...

Next up: EX homosexual and therapist Jeff Simunds take on WA State's somewhat recent ban on conversion/reparative therapy.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Get to the part where it's used for therapy to overcome homosexual desires.

I never claimed it was, do keep your stories straight.

So addressing what has caused someone's same sex attractions shouldn't be used by therapists?

If a woman seeks therapy for emotional problems she's developed after being raped, that subject should be ignored?

Of course not and I don't suggest that it should. The point is not ignoring a patient's issues but inserting presuppositions and acting on them in treatment.

Coming from your LGBTQ allies no less. Thanks for showing that your so-called 'community' is full of hatred.

I generally don't judge an entire community on the basis of one ******* on a message board. Like I said, there bigots and idiots in every community.

You're the one that brought it up so defend it. I looked into it just this morning and found it to be a fraudulent movement based on what's been written by LaBarbera and my own research.

Yet you have presented no evidence on why other than Christians shouldn't be associated with it and it allows for more than your layman's opinion on potential outcomes. I defend it on the basis that the APA approves it and it allows for a similar outcome that CT and RT seek with less risk: that a patient if they really want that can, to use your terms, turn off their same-sex desires to find balance with their religious and social life.

Which shows how much influence the LGBTQ movement has (or perhaps your "security filters" allow websites like the Advocate, Queerty, Joe My god, etc. and not pro Judeo-Christian websites?

Yes, I do find it annoying that filter sites allow user ratings based on what is really political opinion. It one of the reasons why I will bypass them when I don't see any actual security flags.

 

[MrDante]

nothing to see here

 

[MrDante]

Do your homework Kit, when you make a statement, I want information to back it.



You're making statements that things like electroconvulsive therapy is still being used, and I've asked you to provide evidence that it is.

I'm still waiting....

"Around 100,000 people a year receive ECT in the U.S."

If you would like me to cite studies (not LGBTQ approved) spanning a 100 year period on what causes homosexual desires, I'll gladly do so again. Remember that these studies were done by people who were "sympathetic to the homosexual rights movement" (review somewhat recent posts about Irving Bieber and Robert Spitzer).

the list where every single entry has been shown to be fraudulent? Again?

Get some new fake material already

If you would like to me cite testimonies from those who were honest enough to admit that their same sex desires came from sexual molestation as a child, exposure to pornography, or an overbearing mother or an abusive or distant father I'll gladly do so again.

you mean testimonies from those who were told that by quacks.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You are aware though that Frank Kameny spoke to NAMBLA aren't you?

the claim that he did was something put out by the well known hate group Americans for Truth (how that for an ironic name?) AFT claims they learned of his association with NAMBLA from an unnamed publication from 1997. No one has actually seen this publication and all links to it on AFT's website mysteriously don't work.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Get to the part where it's [electroconvulsive therapy] used for therapy to overcome homosexual desires.

I never claimed it was, do keep your stories straight.

Quote: Originally posted by Kit the Coyote
By the way, Electroconvulsive therapy, the correct name for it, is still in use and is an effective treatment for certain major depressive disorders.

How about you finish that sentence by saying "but it is not a treatment used in reparative/conversion therapy for those with homosexual desires and according to experts on the subject, hasn't been used for over 50 years"?

As ...Dante's link showed , there is no mention of it being used in reparative/conversion therapy.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/297655.php

I must say, it is odd times when two homosexualists applaud the use of electroshock therapy.

Perhaps it should be used on all of those suicidal 'gay' youths who have been told time and time again by the child indoctrinators/molesters of the LGBTQ movement that there is no escape from having homosexual desires other than leaving it in a body bag?

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So addressing what has caused someone's same sex attractions shouldn't be used by therapists?

If a woman seeks therapy for emotional problems she's developed after being raped, that subject should be ignored?

Of course not and I don't suggest that it should. The point is not ignoring a patient's issues but inserting presuppositions and acting on them in treatment.

A therapist asking a patient with homosexual desires about his or her childhood and listening intently about how they were sexually molested by a homosexual elder or had an overbearing mother or distant or abusive father is a "presupposition"?

These therapists are dealing with fragile individuals, many who had unmentionable things happen to them in childhood. They're not a nameless face from some study.

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Coming from your LGBTQ allies no less. Thanks for showing that your so-called 'community' is full of hatred.

I generally don't judge an entire community on the basis of one ******* on a message board. Like I said, there bigots and idiots in every community.

I did an entire segment on violence, harassment and 'gaystapo' tactics inside the LGBTQueer movement. Much of it is used against other homosexuals and transgenders.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You're the one that brought it up so defend it. I looked into it just this morning and found it to be a fraudulent movement based on what's been written by LaBarbera and my own research.

Yet you have presented no evidence on why other than Christians shouldn't be associated with it and it allows for more than your layman's opinion on potential outcomes. I defend it on the basis that the APA approves it and it allows for a similar outcome that CT and RT seek with less risk: that a patient if they really want that can, to use your terms, turn off their same-sex desires to find balance with their religious and social life.

Pay attention, two reasons why followers of Christ shouldn't embrace SIT was pointed out in LaBarbera's articles which I posted above:

Can a Faithful Christian Practice Yarhouse’s and Throckmorton’s ‘Sexual Identity Therapy’?

Laurie Higgins says ‘No’
“How can a Christian even in the service of mental or psychological consonance be open to a client assuming a same-sex identity when this therapist knows that consonance comes at the cost of his or her client’s eternal life?” — Laurie Higgins
https://americansfortruth.com/2010/...es-and-throckmortons-sexual-identity-therapy/

Is Grove City College Still ‘Authentically Christian’ if It Abides Pro-‘Gay’ Professor Warren Throckmorton and his ‘Sexual Identity Therapy’?
Therapeutic approach values “gay identity”
https://americansfortruth.com/2010/...abides-pro-gay-professor-warren-throckmorton/

When someone accepts Christ into their life their past sinful identity is no more. Legitimate Christian counselors know this. Warrant Throckmorton and Mark Yarhouse are only leading sexually confused Christians (and other who aren't followers of Christ) astray.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Which shows how much influence the LGBTQ movement has (or perhaps your "security filters" allow websites like the Advocate, Queerty, Joe My god, etc. and not pro Judeo-Christian websites?

Yes, I do find it annoying that filter sites allow user ratings based on what is really political opinion. It one of the reasons why I will bypass them when I don't see any actual security flags.

My point is that perversion is acceptable on the internet in these rainbow flag waving days and sites that are attempting to help these lost souls are banned. I've extensively covered how the LGBTQ movement has taken over invaluable institutions, the media is just one of them.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You are aware though that Frank Kameny spoke to NAMBLA aren't you?

the claim that he did was something put out by the well known hate group Americans for Truth (how that for an ironic name?) AFT claims they learned of his association with NAMBLA from an unnamed publication from 1997.

According to the NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) publication “A Way Forward,” Kameny spoke at a NAMBLA membership conference in Baltimore in 1981.

In 1981, Mel Boozer, a Democratic Party star, and Frank Kameny, organizer of the world’s first gay rights pickets in Washington, D.C., spoke at a NAMBLA membership conference in Baltimore. In 1982, Frank Kilhefner, co-founder and director of the Gay Community Center in Los Angeles, spoke at a NAMBLA meeting there. In time, virtually all of the pioneers who now serve as icons of the lesbian and gay rights movement spoke at NAMLBA-sponsored forums. Often, these men and women shared the stage with boys speaking about ageism and in defense of youth rights as well as eros — and from their point of view was simple common sense.
https://americansfortruth.com/2007/...frank-kameny-spoke-at-nambla-meeting-in-1981/

No one has actually seen this publication and all links to it on AFT's website mysteriously don't work.

Let's see what the old pedophile had to say in his response to Peter LaBarbera's inquiry:

Frank Kameny Responds to AFTAH Report that He Spoke at NAMBLA Event in 1981

Kameny, who turned 82 on Monday (May 21), writes:
Peter:
In your website I have found no actual quotations supposedly made by me at this 1981 Baltimore meeting which I supposedly attended.
1. The mere addressing of a group says absolutely nothing about the content of that address, and does not in the least necessarily imply support.
2. Starting about 1966 and continuing until very roughly 1985 or a bit earlier, (and to a lesser degree through to the present), I was making some 100-150 public appearances per year — radio, television, panel discussions, private groups, political contexts, formal testimony, schools at various levels, etc.,etc, etc. So few of them stand out individually.
I have no memory of actually appearing before NAMBLA, but that does not constitute a flat denial. I just don’t remember an actual appearance.
However, I do recall being in communication with them at their initiative, almost certainly in connection with this meeting, by telephone or by mail (that was before email and the internet), and I may well have provided a statement, but I have no specific recollection whatever of what was said. As I recall it (subject to a fallible memory) the head of the group in Baltimore — or one of the higher ups — was someone who had been active in the Gay Movement otherwise, and of whose connection, until then, with NAMBLA I knew nothing. That was my sole contact with NAMBLA at any time at all, before then, then, or later.
..
https://americansfortruth.com/2007/...report-that-he-spoke-at-nambla-event-in-1981/

I'm pretty certain that the subject of child rape "man-boy love" was discussed Frank, as child molestation and indoctrination is a huge part of the LGBTQ movement.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I somewhat recently talked about Christian and EX homosexual Jeff Simunds and the lecture that I attended entitled

Homosexuality: What does the Bible say and how should we respond?

Jeff did an excellent job of covering things such as

An overview of Scripture (there is no question whatsoever that both the Old and New Testaments condemn all homosexual behavior).

Gay revisionist theology

How does SSA come about in someone's life? (Jeff was the victim of an extremely abusive father).

Struggle vs Identity

How to relate to the struggling Christian

How to relate to the 'gay' Christian (Jeff admits that there is no such thing, as the two words are oxymoron's).

How to relate to non Christians

How to relate to family/friends

Transgender, Cross dressing, intersex

I would recommend any pastors following this thread that they contact Jeff and arrange to have him as a speaker at their church.

Individuals with homosexual desires should contact Jeff, as he's a wealth of information on the subject.

http://toweroflightministries.org/contact/

Next up: Jeff Simunds take on the recent Washington State Conversion/Reparative Therapy ban and how it will effect Christians in the future.

 

[MrDante]

How about you finish that sentence by saying "but it is not a treatment used in reparative/conversion therapy for those with homosexual desires and according to experts on the subject, hasn't been used for over 50 years"?

As ...Dante's link showed , there is no mention of it being used in reparative/conversion therapy.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/297655.php

I must say, it is odd times when two homosexualists applaud the use of electroshock therapy.

Oh look, ACW has moved the goalpost and is now lying about it.

What ARE the odds???? (well...the odds that ACW will lie is pretty much 100%)

You're making statements that things like electroconvulsive therapy is still being used, and I've asked you to provide evidence that it is.

I'm still waiting....

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You're making statements that things like electroconvulsive therapy is still being used, and I've asked you to provide evidence that it is.

I'm still waiting....

Do your homework Kit, when you make a statement, I want information to back it.

By the way, Electroconvulsive therapy, the correct name for it, is still in use and is an effective treatment for certain major depressive disorders.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

How about you finish that sentence by saying "but it is not a treatment used in reparative/conversion therapy for those with homosexual desires and according to experts on the subject, hasn't been used for over 50 years"?

As ...Dante's link showed , there is no mention of it being used in reparative/conversion therapy.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/297655.php

I must say, it is odd times when two homosexualists applaud the use of electroshock therapy.

Perhaps it should be used on all of those suicidal 'gay' youths who have been told time and time again by the child indoctrinators/molesters of the LGBTQ movement that there is no escape from having homosexual desires other than leaving it in a body bag?

Why should I have added that? I was simply correcting a statment that ECT was not used anymore, not commenting on how it was used.

It is possible that it might be used as you suggest on some 'gay' youths but as a treatment for severe depression.

A therapist asking a patient with homosexual desires about his or her childhood and listening intently about how they were sexually molested by a homosexual elder or had an overbearing mother or distant or abusive father is a "presupposition"?

These therapists are dealing with fragile individuals, many who had unmentionable things happen to them in childhood. They're not a nameless face from some study.

It would be if the therapist in not finding such things goes digging for them. We have seen in the Satanic Panic cases what happens when therapists go suggestively digging for something that is not there in the mind of a fragile individual.

When someone accepts Christ into their life their past sinful identity is no more. Legitimate Christian counselors know this. Warrant Throckmorton and Mark Yarhouse are only leading sexually confused Christians (and other who aren't followers of Christ) astray.

Fallen Christian remember. What some Christians think of a procedure based on their Christian beliefs is less relevant to me than what the APA has to say about it. Regardless that some Christians say it is wrong I still highly recommend blood transfusions, vaccinations, surgery, etc.

My point is that perversion is acceptable on the internet in these rainbow flag waving days and sites that are attempting to help these lost souls are banned. I've extensively covered how the LGBTQ movement has taken over invaluable institutions, the media is just one of them.

Doesn't take an all powerful conspiracy to spoof ratings on a security filter, just a handful of talented hackers. It happens to Republican sites, Democrat sites, White Suppremists sites, Pro and Anti Abortion sites, etc. All that is needed is a enough public interest to attract a few activist hackers and a site owner who doesn't bother to correct the problem once he is aware of it.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Oh look, ACW has moved the goalpost and is now lying about it.

What ARE the odds???? (well...the odds that ACW will lie is pretty much 100%)

I was hoping we could discuss pedophile Frank Kameny and his ties to NAMBLA further. While there doesn't appear to be a 1981 NAMBLA edition of "A Way Forward" available to verify what was written, I bet if you were to contact some of the older homosexual/pederasts/pedophiles that are alive today (there's not many of them left), I'm sure that they could provide that particular issue.

Human Rights Campaign founder/pederast Terry Bean probably has one and perhaps ex Seattle Mayor/pederast Ed Murray does as well. See what you can do and let's see what NAMBLA had to write about the homosexual activist who was responsible for removing homosexuality from the APA's list of mental disorders.

And here I thought that loving parents know what's best for their child, not a pedophile.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
How about you finish that sentence by saying "but it is not a treatment used in reparative/conversion therapy for those with homosexual desires and according to experts on the subject, hasn't been used for over 50 years"?

As ...Dante's link showed , there is no mention of it being used in reparative/conversion therapy.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/297655.php

I must say, it is odd times when two homosexualists applaud the use of electroshock therapy.

Perhaps it should be used on all of those suicidal 'gay' youths who have been told time and time again by the child indoctrinators/molesters of the LGBTQ movement that there is no escape from having homosexual desires other than leaving it in a body bag?

Why should I have added that? I was simply correcting a statment that ECT was not used anymore, not commenting on how it was used.

The topic of discussion was and is the ban of therapy for youth with homosexual desires/gender identity problems. I pointed out several cases where homosexual activists were caught in lies describing horrific treatments that haven't been used in this type of therapy for 50 years (if they were ever used at all). If you want to claim that you were talking about therapies for other disorders, then go ahead, but I know better.

It is possible that it might be used as you suggest on some 'gay' youths but as a treatment for severe depression.

When did I "suggest that it (electroconvulsive therapy) might be used on some 'gay' youths"?

If it is used on some youth with homosexual desires, be a good little homosexual activist and do some hard work and show that it is.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
A therapist asking a patient with homosexual desires about his or her childhood and listening intently about how they were sexually molested by a homosexual elder or had an overbearing mother or distant or abusive father is a "presupposition"?

These therapists are dealing with fragile individuals, many who had unmentionable things happen to them in childhood. They're not a nameless face from some study.

It would be if the therapist in not finding such things goes digging for them. We have seen in the Satanic Panic cases what happens when therapists go suggestively digging for something that is not there in the mind of a fragile individual.

Provide a case where that happened. Maybe LGBT activist and drag queen/S&M'er Sammy Brinton will come to TOL and spew some more lies.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
When someone accepts Christ into their life their past sinful identity is no more. Legitimate Christian counselors know this. Warrant Throckmorton and Mark Yarhouse are only leading sexually confused Christians (and other who aren't followers of Christ) astray.

Fallen Christian remember.

Are you referring to yourself (you were never one to begin with) or Christians who are struggling with same sex desires?

What some Christians think of a procedure based on their Christian beliefs is less relevant to me than what the APA has to say about it. Regardless that some Christians say it is wrong I still highly recommend blood transfusions, vaccinations, surgery, etc.

Being that it was two men who described themselves as Christian and are professors at a supposed Christian college that founded this faux movement, it's very important to point out that 'gay identity acceptance' has absolutely no place in Christian doctrine or with Christian therapists who counsel those with homosexual desires, whether those patients are followers of Christ or not.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
My point is that perversion is acceptable on the internet in these rainbow flag waving days and sites that are attempting to help these lost souls are banned. I've extensively covered how the LGBTQ movement has taken over invaluable institutions, the media is just one of them.

Doesn't take an all powerful conspiracy to spoof ratings on a security filter, just a handful of talented hackers...

Need I provide evidence showing that the media is pro LGBT and has silenced many people when they attempt to speak the truth about homosexuality?

I didn't think so.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Oh look, ACW has moved the goalpost and is now lying about it.

What ARE the odds???? (well...the odds that ACW will lie is pretty much 100%)

What I am finding interesting is presented with an APA approved, safer alternative to CT/RT that allows for a confused Christian LGBT youth to reach a similar outcome as CT/RT if that is what that youth really wants, CW is now the one who wants to deny those youths help based on group politics. A complete 180.

 

[MrDante]

I was hoping we could discuss pedophile Frank Kameny and his ties to NAMBLA further.

you mean you don't want to talk more about your fake claims about Kit the Coyote? wow what a shock

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Being that it was two men who described themselves as Christian and are professors at a supposed Christian college that founded this faux movement, it's very important to point out that 'gay identity acceptance' has absolutely no place in Christian doctrine or with Christian therapists who counsel those with homosexual desires, whether those patients are followers of Christ or not.

It is quite clear now from your responses on this alternative that you never really cared about these troubled youths. You will now deny them a chance to safely resolve their confusion in the name of group politics and your crusade against homosexuality. You, sir, are a hypocrite, no different than the very homosexual activist conspiracy that you condemn. In the name of your group, you would deny them the very thing that God gave them, free will and a choice, in favor of shoving your solution down their throats.