Why Hell is Forever

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Jefferson

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Why Hell is Forever

This is the show from Tuesday April 26th, 2011.

SUMMARY:




* Bob and Jo Scott discuss Time Magazine's Story, What If There's No Hell?
Pastor Bob disputes Pastor Rob Bell's book Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived. Hell exists because God made us with the ability to love, and that requires the ability to hate. And if God allowed everyone to go to heaven, then He would turn heaven into hell and for all of eternity unleash onto the redeemed the "hell on earth" that so many people already lament. And if God replaced St. Peter's gate with a revolving door, then the rebellion, pride, hatred, cruelty and selfishness that has spoiled the paradise of Eden would forever spoil the heavenly paradise. Also, the deity of Christ and eternal punishment are related doctrines, for cults that do not know that Jesus is God also tend to reject the eternal hell. If the punishment of sin is not eternal, then God could have created something of sufficient worth to pay the price, and He would not have had to sacrifice His infinitely worthy Son. But when Jesus prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will," because the Father's love for the Son was immeasurable, we can be sure that there was no other way to pay for the sins of men. And so, because the demands of righteousness required a full payment for sin, the penalty for sin could not be a finite prison term, for then Jesus Christ would not have had to pay with His life. As Southern Baptist seminary president Albert Mohler said, if Bell were right, then "you don't need Christ, and you don't need the cross. This is the tragedy of nonjudgmental mainline liberalism..." And check out also Bob Enyart's related article on Should Christians Judge? and his Nicer than God Bible seminar below!

* Speaking of the Lost Going to Hell, Jo Contrasts that with a Story of Life and a Baby Saved Today: This little one was scheduled to be dismembered by Planned Parenthood today, April 26, 2011 in Denver, Colorado. A young man driving into the abortion mill's parking lot stopped at the driveway and took literature from sidewalk counselor Ken Scott. He had the literature in his hand as he got out of his car. Jo Scott told him to put it in his pocket because the security guard would try to take it away from him. As the man was putting it into his pocket, security guard Ron Pringle told him that he was not allowed to take the literature into the building. The Planned Parenthood patron ignored him and entered the building anyway. Whenever this circumstance occurs, former Denver police officer Pringle becomes extremely vulgar and agitated. So today Planned Parenthood called the police on their own client and six squad cars sped to the scene to arrest the young man. As the three ring circus played out, two young women walked out of the Planned Parenthood parking lot and asked the pro-lifers about the help that they had offered. Laura was desperate; her husband is out of work and she had no idea that anyone would help her. When she realized that she is not alone and that help is available she decided not to kill her child. The women in the studio audience were tearing up as Jo described Laura's tears of joy! The police told the young man with the literature still in his pocket that Planned Parenthood decided not to press charges and he was released. And he was pleased to hear that he played a part in saving a child's life, for without all that distraction, the security guard would have kept Laura away from Jo Scott! Thanks Jo, thanks Laura, and thank you Lord!



* Today's Resource: You can listen to Nicer than God, a fast-paced critique of today's Christian teaching on the issues of forgiveness, judging, confrontation, etc. by downloading it now or getting it on an MP3-CD. Or you can get a subscribe to our Monthly Bible Study Albums to receive a different Bible Study on MP3-CD mailed to your home each month. Nicer than God would then be just one of the many worthwhile albums you will enjoy!
 

Krsto

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MY RESPONSE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTER:

Hell exists because God made us with the ability to love, and that requires the ability to hate.

HATE IS NOT THE OPPOSITE OF AGAPE LOVE BUT EVEN IF IT WERE, THE ABILITY TO HATE NECESSITATES HELL HOW EXACTLY?

And if God allowed everyone to go to heaven, then He would turn heaven into hell and for all of eternity unleash onto the redeemed the "hell on earth" that so many people already lament.

IF ANYONE GOING TO HEAVEN BRINGS WITH HIM HIS POLLUTION THEN IT MIGHT BE A PLACE YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO GO TO BUT THIS STATEMENT DENIES WE WILL BE CHANGED INTO PURE SPIRITUAL BEINGS FIRST.

And if God replaced St. Peter's gate with a revolving door, then the rebellion, pride, hatred, cruelty and selfishness that has spoiled the paradise of Eden would forever spoil the heavenly paradise.

IGNORANCE OF THE POWER OF GOD - JUST AS JESUS SAID.

Also, the deity of Christ and eternal punishment are related doctrines, for cults that do not know that Jesus is God also tend to reject the eternal hell.

MANY CHRISTIANS REJECT ETERNAL SUFFERING. THAT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIVE TRAIT TO CULTS. CONVERSELY, THERE ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW JESUS IS GOD BUT ALSO BELIEVE IN ETERNAL SUFFERING. THIS STATEMENT IS MEANINGLESS.

If the punishment of sin is not eternal, then God could have created something of sufficient worth to pay the price, and He would not have had to sacrifice His infinitely worthy Son.

HE COULD HAVE SAVED US ANY WAY HE WANTED TO. HE'S GOD.

But when Jesus prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will," because the Father's love for the Son was immeasurable, we can be sure that there was no other way to pay for the sins of men.

THAT WAY WAS GOD'S CHOICE. HE WAS NOT "FORCED" INTO IT. HE'S GOD.

And so, because the demands of righteousness required a full payment for sin, the penalty for sin could not be a finite prison term, for then Jesus Christ would not have had to pay with His life.

THE SCRIPTURES ARE CLEAR IT WAS A SINLESS MAN WHO DIED FOR OUR SINS. RIGHTEOUSNESS "DEMANDS" NOTHING ELSE. JESUS PAID WITH HIS LIFE SO WE COULD HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. THE LENGTH OF THE "PRISON TERM" HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

As Southern Baptist seminary president Albert Mohler said, if Bell were right, then "you don't need Christ, and you don't need the cross. This is the tragedy of nonjudgmental mainline liberalism..."

THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH, AND THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS. THAT'S WHY WE NEED CHRIST.

And check out also Bob Enyart's related article on Should Christians Judge? and his Nicer than God Bible seminar below!

IF IT'S MORE OF THE SAME NONSENSE JUST POSTED, NO THANK YOU.
 

Frayed Knot

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Why exactly does the ability to love require the ability to hate? That makes no sense.

And is there hate in heaven?
 

Krsto

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Why exactly does the ability to love require the ability to hate? That makes no sense.

And is there hate in heaven?

I think you should apply to be the Pres. of Southern Baptist Seminary. You make more sense than the one quoted above. :thumb:
 

ragTagblues

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It puts me in mind of an old Douglas Adams quote -

The best way to avoid un-happiness is to simply not have a word for it.
 

Ps82

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I read the article. During parts of it the writer seemed to not be supporting any particular viewpoint about whether there is a hell or not ... but if you read carefully, the writer began to get his jabs at Christianity in. One example was to remark that our Bible, which Christians accept as divinely inspired, has contradictions in it. Also comments questioning why God would do such a thing?

I'm interested in this subject of eternal hell ... but I'm not sure whether we will find the information in this world to be able to say flatly that hell (sometimes known as - a place of eternal torment and awareness) is forever.

I wrote the definition of hell ... because I've known people in the past to start arguments about the word 'hell' whether it just means eternally decayed in the grave as dust of the ground or means eternally in a place of awareness and torment.

I have come to some personal conclusions based on my studies ... but would never get into heated arguments over my ideas.

If I were to consider that hell is a place of eternal awareness and torment... then this is what I'm thinking about whether that is true or not.

I happen to believe that ONE DAY ... at the very culmination of all the processes set in motion by God since the beginning ... that and eternal 'hell' will be obliterated.

These are part of the reason why I think this:
Revelation 6:7,8 KJV
And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, "Come and see."
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 19:20 KJV
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:13,14,15 LKV
And the sea (of living humanity) gave up the (spiritually) dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the (spiritually and physically) dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 KJV
But the fearful, and unbelieving and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I believe that there is a place of awareness and torment after physical death ... whether it is called the "PIT" or "HELL" does not matter so much to me ... but I believe that at the END OF ALL GOD'S PLANS ... that there will ultimately come an END to both dying and to torment.

Part of the torment of the PIT/temporary Hell is knowing that they will face the SECOND DEATH ... along with the likes of Satan/the beast/false prophet.

Those who have been rescued by being held IN CHRIST by the power of his HOLY SPIRIT in them ... will not face the final obliteration of the SECOND DEATH.

There are tormented souls at this time, who may comprehend that they really goofed up in this life ... and whether any of them will be rescued out of torment right before the Lake of Fire ... like a burning smoking stick snatched out of a fire ... I don't know. It depends on what is written in the book of Life on judgment day.
 

Grayven

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Are you worried about hell? You can get out of it quite easily...right now. Just ask Jesus into your heart, since He's paid the price for your sins, and you will not go to hell. It is really that simple. Pray for your own salvation, then recieve it. THAT'S IT.
 

Jefferson

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And is there hate in heaven?
Yes:

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in Your sight. You hate all doers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 11:5 Jehovah tries the righteous; but His soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. I will drive them out of My house for the wickedness of their doings. I will love them no more; all their rulers are revolters.

Zechariah 11:8 I also cut off three shepherds in one month. And My soul loathed them, and their soul also detested Me.

Leviticus 20:23 And you shall not walk in the ways of the nation which I cast out before you. For they committed all these things, and therefore I loathed them.

Proverbs 6:16-19 These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among the brethren. (Notice the progression in this passage is from head to feet. He begins with the eyes - the proud look - then proceeds to the tongue, then to the hands, then to the heart, and then finally to the feet. In other words, God hates the sinner from head to feet. Again notice that God does not just hate the false witnessing, rather He hates the "false witness" himself. And notice that God does not just hate discord, rather he hates the "one" who sows that discord.)
 

Granite

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Hell's permanent because a temporary punishment isn't scary enough. Why make a threat PG-13 when you can go for a hard R?
 

Ps82

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Hell's permanent because a temporary punishment isn't scary enough. Why make a threat PG-13 when you can go for a hard R?

So... does your comment, Granite, mean that you believe in an eternal hell?

OR

Were you just mocking the views of someone else?

Until someone shows me a reason not to believe this ---I believe there is a place of torment now ... and this place exists until God ends the plans that he has put in process from the beginning which leads to the perfecting of the saints and the world. At the very end God will send death and hell into the lake of fire which is the second death ... and the end of both death and torment.

Do you study this subject of hell and have any views about it based on your research? Do you have any comments about it other than: "I don't believe in it no matter what anyone says."
 

Granite

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So... does your comment, Granite, mean that you believe in an eternal hell?

OR

Were you just mocking the views of someone else?

Until someone shows me a reason not to believe this ---I believe there is a place of torment now ... and this place exists until God ends the plans that he has put in process from the beginning which leads to the perfecting of the saints and the world. At the very end God will send death and hell into the lake of fire which is the second death ... and the end of both death and torment.

Do you study this subject of hell and have any views about it based on your research? Do you have any comments about it other than: "I don't believe in it no matter what anyone says."

I wasn't mocking, no. I was pointing out that from a marketing standpoint a permanent punishment's got more teeth than a temporary one. In order for this doctrine to be effective it needs to be a total either/or situation.
 

Ps82

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I wasn't mocking, no. I was pointing out that from a marketing standpoint a permanent punishment's got more teeth than a temporary one. In order for this doctrine to be effective it needs to be a total either/or situation.

It is my opinion that this view would call for a God who is vindictive and not loving.

That's the problem I've always had with an eternal torment hell. Yet, there is evidence in scripture that there is a place of torment where unsaved exist and they may even be aware of why they are there.

Then I read the scriptures about the SECOND death ... and found that both Death and Hell were cast into it along with The Beast and the False prophet.

I also found out in Psalm 82 that Satan, man's great accuser, was going to DIE LIKE MEN. I had to think: Wow ... Satan dies ... and the same way a man would die! How can this be?

Well, there are two things that answer that question:
1.) Genesis 3 - where we are told that both men and that ole Serpent, Satan, are commanded to partake of the dust of the ground for the rest of their lives.

Then in Gen 3 - God cursed the dust of the ground. Thus man and Satan are subjected unwillingly to the curse of the elements of the ground.

2.) The verses I mentioned in a post above show that the lost souls remaining under the curse upon the ground are all sent to the Lake of fire ... and when this happens both Death and Hell enter the Lake of Fire too. This is the SECOND death ... and the final death of lost men and angels. After this there is no more need for the process of death nor the place we call hell.
 

Ps82

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Granite,
I also have some views on the books mentioned in the Bible.
I happen to conclude that books refers to the collected chapters of a man's life and accomplishments. God can read our hearts and lives just as easily as a human can read a simple book.

In Revelation ... God is said to open bookS and read bookS.

I conclude that this is when God takes a look at each man's life and judges him according to his life works... some may be saved by God, but suffer great loss in eternity for coming through the fire like a stick snatched out of a fire.

While others will be found IN the BOOK of LIFE. What is the Book of Life. It is our Risen Savior.

In him are the chapters of the lives of the people he has redeemed... Those who are IN HIM ... and who have HIM IN US.

If you are found IN HIM ... in the Book of Life ... then you will not face God's Lake of Fire.
 

Frayed Knot

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Do you study this subject of hell and have any views about it based on your research?

How can you "research" the subject of hell, when the only thing to study is one piece of ancient literature? It would be like "researching" how Perseus used the reflection off his shield to kill Medusa. You can become familiar with the stories, but is that "research"?
 

Ps82

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How can you "research" the subject of hell, when the only thing to study is one piece of ancient literature? It would be like "researching" how Perseus used the reflection off his shield to kill Medusa. You can become familiar with the stories, but is that "research"?

Well, I wondered whether I wanted to use the term 'research'... but I was too lazy to choose another word... and, after all when one writes a research paper... they often include the studies of others before them ... so reading the information within scripture on this theology topic is a reasonable way to do part of your research.

Hell is a theology subject ... so one uses what theology references they have. Of course, if you want to try to do some literal scientific research - go right ahead.
 
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