Mystery
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I second that! :up:
Who died on the cross? - a Hall of Fame thread.
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I second that! :up:
Ecumenicist
New member
Psalm 139:
8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Ecumenicist
New member
Brilliant, theologize and contextualize the scriptures you don't like, and literalize the one's
you do. And then point the bony finger at liberals who do the same.
You are missing the debate.
I have no doubt that one cannot hide from God (i.e. Psalm 139), that isn't in question. The question is.... is God forced to be in hell 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
PKevman
New member
Some Biblical support against the UnBiblical doctrine of Omnipresence!
Some Biblical support against the UnBiblical doctrine of Omnipresence!
If Omnipresence is true (Omni is a Latin term that means "all"), then God is ALL-present. So the following Scriptures would be completely nonsensical and would need to be stricken from the Word of God:
Genesis 18:20-21
20 And the LORD said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”
If Omnipresence is a true and Biblical doctrine, then what God really meant was:
"I will go down now to a place I already am, and see something that I already see, and if not I will know something that I already knew in the first place."
Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense!
Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
If Omnipresence were true, God the Father could never have turned His back on God the Son, and therefore the verse above makes no sense and needs to be stricken from the Bible!
And finally, Knight has given a very brilliant defense and a clear Scripture against Omnipresence in this thread.
If Omnipresence is true, then it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for this verse to be true:
39 Therefore, I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your fathers.
Omni is a latin term that means "all". If God is ALL-present, it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to EVER cast anyone out of His presence.
Some Biblical support against the UnBiblical doctrine of Omnipresence!
If Omnipresence is true (Omni is a Latin term that means "all"), then God is ALL-present. So the following Scriptures would be completely nonsensical and would need to be stricken from the Word of God:
Genesis 18:20-21
20 And the LORD said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”
If Omnipresence is a true and Biblical doctrine, then what God really meant was:
"I will go down now to a place I already am, and see something that I already see, and if not I will know something that I already knew in the first place."
Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense!
Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
If Omnipresence were true, God the Father could never have turned His back on God the Son, and therefore the verse above makes no sense and needs to be stricken from the Bible!
And finally, Knight has given a very brilliant defense and a clear Scripture against Omnipresence in this thread.
If Omnipresence is true, then it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for this verse to be true:
39 Therefore, I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your fathers.
Omni is a latin term that means "all". If God is ALL-present, it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to EVER cast anyone out of His presence.
PKevman
New member
EXACTLY! It is certainly POSSIBLE for God to be in multiple billions of locations at once if He chose to. We believe that He is able to choose to be where He wants to be.
The problem we face is that most young pastors were (like myself) taught that you NEVER, EVER, question the "Omni's" and the "Im's". That to do so puts you in the company of heretics. So virtually all of the pastors across our great country are going out and teaching the same things to their congregations. This is the battle we're facing. It won't be easy.
Don't lose heart brother!
PKevman
New member
The funny thing that I find is that few Christians that argue vehemently FOR the position of Omni or "All" presence are willing to say "Yes, God is in my toilet right now because He is "All" present."
Instead they argue against the position that God is free and able to choose where He wants to be, when in reality that is what they really believe. I was just such a Christian once upon a time. I believed that Omnipresence was a Biblical doctrine because it was all I had been taught for years and even before I was a Christian it was all I had ever heard.
Then when I began to investigate it further, I found that the Scriptures ACTUALLY teach otherwise, and I submitted to the Word of God as opposed to the teachings of men.
Many of those men were people I love and respect. But we have to make a decision. Are we going to believe God's Word, or are we going to cling vehemently to our unBiblical doctrines when the Bible shows them to be wrong?
I've made my choice. I hope that others reading this might make the choice to side with the Word of God along with me.
At least understand that we don't for a moment say God is limited. He has the ability to be anywhere and everywhere that He wants to be. He is not like Satan, angels, demons, and human beings in that they are only capable of being in one location at one time.
Instead they argue against the position that God is free and able to choose where He wants to be, when in reality that is what they really believe. I was just such a Christian once upon a time. I believed that Omnipresence was a Biblical doctrine because it was all I had been taught for years and even before I was a Christian it was all I had ever heard.
Then when I began to investigate it further, I found that the Scriptures ACTUALLY teach otherwise, and I submitted to the Word of God as opposed to the teachings of men.
Many of those men were people I love and respect. But we have to make a decision. Are we going to believe God's Word, or are we going to cling vehemently to our unBiblical doctrines when the Bible shows them to be wrong?
I've made my choice. I hope that others reading this might make the choice to side with the Word of God along with me.
At least understand that we don't for a moment say God is limited. He has the ability to be anywhere and everywhere that He wants to be. He is not like Satan, angels, demons, and human beings in that they are only capable of being in one location at one time.
Mystery
New member
It's just the tip of a very big religious iceberg.
The Spirit of God indwells everyone that is in the Body of Christ. The "orthos" (orthodoxed ones) would have us believe that He is also in everyone who is not in the Body of Christ, and their pets, their cars, and their toilets :comeout:.
If God was everywhere, there would be no darkness. :idea:
Mystery
New member
Do you think God dwells in cat poop?
Does God dwell in the heart of Satan? In Darkness? In you?
It's amazing that people who hang so much on the sovereignty of God, don't believe He is sovereign over His own vision and location.
Mystery
New member
I'm not going to make friends by saying this... but I think that 99% of Christendumb is at one extreme or the other on the "free will" issue, and their views not only reflect what they believe about Christians, but also what they believe about God.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The all-encompassing One
The all-encompassing One
The case for Omnipresence is not only affirmed by scripture but many metaphysical schools based on the basic principles of 'Spirit' - this meaning that God is truly OMNI in Totality, - His Consciousness is infinite, all-pervading and all-encompassing. This is a basic fundamental Truth of Deity for students of 'spiritual science' further agreed by conventional classical schools of theology (although with different nuances of understanding).
Using illustrations against Omnipresence with examples of God being in 'someones toilet' or in 'hell' shows a misunderstanding of Omnipresence by relegating 'God' to physicality or dimension, when God fills the Immensity of Existence. One either accepts the Absolute Truth of God's Omnipresence or does not,...but we see that the reasons to doubt it are more supported by mans own limited logic or preferred doctrinal position.
It is a curious observation that those who deny Omnipresence claim that God has the ability to be where he wants to be, so is 'selective' about his 'locality' or 'position' in space which means he is free to deny the preeminent truth of His Omnipresence as he so chooses. There is no indication in scripture that his Omnipresence is predicated or modified by His wants. God IS, and the totality of His Infinite Intelligence fills all space and time thru the medium of His Spirit-Presence. All that truly exists and is recognizable is known to God whose Awareness is Universal and all-encompassing.
paul
The all-encompassing One
The funny thing that I find is that few Christians that argue vehemently FOR the position of Omni or "All" presence are willing to say "Yes, God is in my toilet right now because He is "All" present."
Instead they argue against the position that God is free and able to choose where He wants to be, when in reality that is what they really believe. I was just such a Christian once upon a time. I believed that Omnipresence was a Biblical doctrine because it was all I had been taught for years and even before I was a Christian it was all I had ever heard.
Then when I began to investigate it further, I found that the Scriptures ACTUALLY teach otherwise, and I submitted to the Word of God as opposed to the teachings of men.
Many of those men were people I love and respect. But we have to make a decision. Are we going to believe God's Word, or are we going to cling vehemently to our unBiblical doctrines when the Bible shows them to be wrong?
I've made my choice. I hope that others reading this might make the choice to side with the Word of God along with me.
At least understand that we don't for a moment say God is limited. He has the ability to be anywhere and everywhere that He wants to be. He is not like Satan, angels, demons, and human beings in that they are only capable of being in one location at one time.
The case for Omnipresence is not only affirmed by scripture but many metaphysical schools based on the basic principles of 'Spirit' - this meaning that God is truly OMNI in Totality, - His Consciousness is infinite, all-pervading and all-encompassing. This is a basic fundamental Truth of Deity for students of 'spiritual science' further agreed by conventional classical schools of theology (although with different nuances of understanding).
Using illustrations against Omnipresence with examples of God being in 'someones toilet' or in 'hell' shows a misunderstanding of Omnipresence by relegating 'God' to physicality or dimension, when God fills the Immensity of Existence. One either accepts the Absolute Truth of God's Omnipresence or does not,...but we see that the reasons to doubt it are more supported by mans own limited logic or preferred doctrinal position.
It is a curious observation that those who deny Omnipresence claim that God has the ability to be where he wants to be, so is 'selective' about his 'locality' or 'position' in space which means he is free to deny the preeminent truth of His Omnipresence as he so chooses. There is no indication in scripture that his Omnipresence is predicated or modified by His wants. God IS, and the totality of His Infinite Intelligence fills all space and time thru the medium of His Spirit-Presence. All that truly exists and is recognizable is known to God whose Awareness is Universal and all-encompassing.
paul
beloved57
Well-known member
Nope omnipresence does not mean God dwells in things.. How can God be contained in something dude ?
1 kgs 8
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
Things and people can be in the presence of God without God being in the thing dude..lol:duh:
Mystery
New member
Then He is not present everywhere. Thanks for conceding.
Yes we do.
We know that God isn't any place that He doesn't want to be. God isn't forced to be in hell for all eternity.
Once again.... the Orthodox Church is clueless.
Mystery
New member
I don't know if you've seen the TV show LOST or not, but the wackos on the island are called "the Others". We should start referring to these religious wackos as The Orthos - Teachers of Orthodoxyism. :chuckle:
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