You are skirting the issue.
YES or NO.... is God IN hell? Is He there all the time 24/7?
Who died on the cross? - a Hall of Fame thread.
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YES or NO.... is God IN hell? Is He there all the time 24/7?
It's a YES or NO proposition. And there is DIRECT biblical support for the correct answer.
So what is it?
So what is it?
Evoken
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Scripture says he is everywhere present, that all things are naked to his eyes and that he upholds all things by his power:
Psalm 138:7
"Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy face? If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present."
1 Kings 8:27
"Is it then to be thought that God should indeed dwell upon earth? for if heaven, and the heavens of heavens cannot contain thee, how much less this house which I have built?"
Hebrews 1:3
"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high."
Hebrews 4:13
"Neither is there any creature invisible in his sight: but all things are naked and open to his eyes, to whom our speech is."
Acts 17:27-28
"...although he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and are"
If he upholds all things, then he is aware of all things that exists, if all things are naked to his eyes then he is too everywhere present, if heaven and earth cannot contain him, then he cannot be confined to some particular space.
Evo
Evoken
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Psalm 138:7
"Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy face? If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present."
Again.... God CAN BE anywhere He wants to be. I already affirmed that.
But that isn't the question. The REAL question is does God have the ability to be somewhere He doesn't want to be?
Let me ask you this..... when people go to hell are they with God? Or without God?
:duh: God CAN BE wherever He wants to be, whenever He wants to be there.
The verse is a figure of speech for.... you cannot escape God.
Evoken
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That is not what Scripture says, there is no potentiality implied in the verses, no "can be" but "actually is".
People in Hell no longer feel his goodness and love very much like a deaf person no longer hears any sound. Doesn't means that he is not present in there just as it doesn't means that there is no sound around a deaf person.
Evo
Why wont either of you answer my YES or NO question? :think:
That isn't what the Bible says.
God is constantly aware of everything going on in Hell. So, yes His consciousness is present there just as it is everywhere else.
Of course you're playing a bit of language game here in the old "Are you still beating your wife?" sense as when we typically refer to someone being "in hell" we're referring to someone being tormented there, and obviously God is not being tormented there that doesn't mean though that he's unaware of everything that goes on there at every moment.
YES or NO.... is God IN hell? Is He there all the time 24/7?
Just answer the question!!!
Just answer the question!!!
I didn't ask if He was aware! I asked IS HE THERE?!!! Is He there 24/7 without exception?
Just answer the question!
I think I am about done with this. Christians are idiots. They don't care what the bible says, they are more committed to man-made theology. They worship religion and not God. They are pathetic.
I did. The phrase "in Hell" can be read two ways, and I answered it for both of them. To re- iterate, If you mean consciously present and aware of what is taking place there, then yes. If you mean tormented there, then no.
Is that a YES?
I've answered this question twice now, and I really don't know how I can be any clearer. I've even taken the time to be as precise as I can in defining what it means for God to be present somewhere.
Such as how you keep ignoring the clear statements of scripture that God is present everywhere? No one is quoting Aquinas or Calvin or any council here, just the absolutely clear text of scripture while you respond (thus far) with nothing but invectives and not a single, actual quote from scripture.
Again, If you mean consciously present and aware of what is taking place there, then yes, just as God consciously present and aware of what is taking place everywhere else.
So you believe that death is not separation from God?
You believe that everyone lives eternally with God either in heaven or in hell? :idunno:
You are wrong.
Death is separation from God. Hell is the place God designed for those that wish to be without Him and His forgiveness. God does NOT dwell in hell 24/7, that is blasphemy!
When people choose to live eternally without God they go to a place where God is not: hell. God is free. God isn't trapped by His own omnipresence. The Bible does not describe God as being forced to be everywhere at once, that's disgusting and perverted.
Dark is the absence of light... and hell is the absence of God....
Jeremiah 23:39 ‘therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence.
PaulMcNabb
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God is omnipresent in the sense that He knows everything going on everywhere and He can affect and control everything going on everywhere. This is different than His "being" everywhere in a literal sense.
Out of a misguided fear of demeaning God, many people make unnecessary and untrue assertions about Him, almost as if using more superlatives about God is being more accurate about Him. The result is a philosophical monster that has only passing familiarity with the Divine Being experienced by the writers of scripture.
Out of a misguided fear of demeaning God, many people make unnecessary and untrue assertions about Him, almost as if using more superlatives about God is being more accurate about Him. The result is a philosophical monster that has only passing familiarity with the Divine Being experienced by the writers of scripture.
Only the flesh? Or was the Son, a person of the Trinity, dead? Was He separated from the rest of the Trinity? Was there a point in time that Christ no longer even had communication with the rest of the Trinity?
That doesn't even make any sense.
All of God did not die. That I know. But a part of God, did: Jesus. Jesus is God, and He died.
Was Jesus separated from the rest of God when this happened?
Did Jesus have a human soul separate from the Spirit of God that indwelt Him?
So the nature of man [man's soul] does not dwell within the flesh of a Christian, while the Spirit of God does? They do not both dwell within at the same time?
God is big. Heaven is big. So what? God does not multiply like Jamie Madrox.
No I don't, and I see nothing in scripture to support that. This is the repeated problem with a great deal of what you're saying here. While you deride others for relying of theology rather than scripture, you're doing precisely the same thing. Your definitions of death, hell, what it means for God to be present somewhere, etc have no actual basis in scripture and are instead the product of dumbed-down pop-theology.
Show me where scripture actually contains either of these definitions.
Again, I can find this definition of hell in CS Lewis, but not in scripture.
And what does God lamenting the existence of false prophets and telling of their eventual downfall in hyperbolic language have to do with the current discussion? (One might almost call the passage a Jeremiad....)
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