Mystery
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I can, but you and AMR cannot, because you both claim that someone else besides God was in Christ when He died.
Who died on the cross? - a Hall of Fame thread.
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Mystery
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No, you mean dumb christians, not Christendom. :rotfl:
I agree with Paul and Jesus, while you agree with godless men who worship at the feet of Rome, and who deny that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.
I dispute your straw man. I want my mommy and my lawyer. Why do you always put words in our mouths? At least be fair and reject what we really believe, not what you think we believe.
Notice how AMRs information uses the same verses you use. We agree more than disagree, but do not proof text with the exact understanding. If brilliance and infallibility are conditions of eternal life, then we are all in trouble.
AMR: Is this an accurate representation of what we believe or does it display inaccurate ideas that we also reject? (I'm changing gurus for the day; I hope sozo will be understanding as my former guru that I must agree with to have life eternal and abundant).
He (we) does not deny this. Do you deny being a follower of Appolinaris? Perhaps you would like us to call you Apollo, so we can worship you as the god of light, sun, and rotting fish?:idea:
Mystery
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Who died on the cross, William? God or someone else?
Evoken
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The second person of the Blessed Trinity, the Son, who possesses both a divine and a human nature, died as a man on the cross. The divine nature did not and cannot die. Much less can it be killed by those who cannot even kill the soul of man (Matthew 10:28).
Now, to clear things up a little bit. Neither a soul, nor a will, nor a consciousness constitutes personality but rather are things that a person has and are actually a single part of human nature. A person possesses a whole human nature, thus personality is not something found in human nature itself. So, it does not follows that because Christ has two natures, that he is also two persons. What was lacking in the human nature assumed was a person that possessed it, which is what was supplied at the incarnation by the person of the Son. This is why it is said that the union between the human and the divine nature took place in the person and not in the nature.
So, there is only one person in Christ (the Son) possessing both a divine and a human nature, in all things the human nature being subordinated to the divine and the human nature along with it's actions being raised to infinite value by virtue of it's union with a divine person. That being the case, a single drop of his blood would have been enough sacrifice to redeem the whole of the human race wether past, present or future.
Evo
The God-Man, the Lord Jesus Christ. The triune God, including Father and Holy Spirit, did not incarnate like the Word did (yet there is a sense that the Father and Son are one in nature).
Jesus is God; Jesus died on the cross. You do the math. AMR does not deny this, but the exact relation of Deity adding humanity is speculative since it is not explicitly, exhaustively taught in Scripture (cf. Trinity is true; we understand much of God's triune nature, but do not understand the Infinite exhaustively with our finite minds). We should stick to revelation, not finite reasoning, in some of these things (at least as far as making our reasonings salvific or dogmatic).
It was not a mere man who died on the cross. Jesus is more than just a prophet or teacher. It was not the infinite God who died in total, since eternal spirit cannot die without taking on flesh first (even then, JWs who wonder who ran the universe for 3 days if Jesus is God and died display ignorance of biblical truth). It was not Buddha who died. It was the God-Man who died (Timothy calls Him the man Christ Jesus after the resurrectionl; other verses clearly show that Jesus is God Almighty, but not the Father).
Evo is correct: one person with two natures; you hear 'two persons', so reject a straw man of our view that we also reject! Think outside your box for a change.
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No it is incorrect and a typical Mystery mis-characterization.
It has been clearly stated that Christ is one Person, with a fully divine nature and a fully human nature indissolubly joined in a hypostatic union that cannot be divided, mixed, confused, or separated. He has [URL="http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1649965&postcount=377"]ignored posts[/URL] that clearly outline how the Incarnation and death of Christ is to be viewed. Instead he prefers to play word games and construct straw men.
The positive side of the discussion is that Mystery, a man who dislikes labels, now has one that perfectly fits his view of the Incarnation- Apollinarianist. He cannot escape the label nor claim he is not an Apollinarian. He denies the Person of Christ possessed a fully human nature, including a human soul, hypostatically united with a fully divine nature. Mystery, the Apollinarian, has been unmasked!
Mystery
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Like AMR, godrulz, and other cultists, you deny that God died for your sins.
You claim that it was not God reconciling the world unto Himself, but He escaped the cross, and left that role to a "man" that had his own mind, will, and soul. An entirely different person.
That is what YOU, and godrulz, and AMR are claiming, and what the Bible does not teach.
Evoken
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As you would say: 'liar'.
Mystery
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Did God die on the cross for your sins, yes or no?
That is not what we are saying. Quit distorting our views due to your lack of depth of understanding. Be like AMR and have some humility dealing with these profound truths.
Mystery
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No it's not. YOU, AMR, and godrulz deny that God died on the cross reconciling the world unto Himself.
Um, well so do you don't you? You only believe that God manages to reconcile some of the world unto himself....
Evoken
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Mystery
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No, I believe God reconciled everyone to Himself, but not all men accept the reconcilliation.
"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."
Nevertheless, you are off topic.
The question here is whether or not God was in Christ when He was reconciling the world unto Himself. I say He was. AMR, godrulz, and Evoken say He was not.
Mystery
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God died on the cross.
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