ECT Which way do you understand Ephesians 4:22

musterion

Well-known member
Just read Brock's take on it last night. George Estill's article in the Journal referencing this passage cause me to look it up.

#2 , The verb "put off " is in the S. Aorist Tense or the Past tense !
That would mean Wuest has it right. Also means it could have been made a bit clearer in the other translations with the addition of "have," since it's not so much a command to be obeyed as a simple statement of fact for those in Christ that we're to walk in.

some will say the Old Nature has been eradicated and some are dispensationalists .

I've yet to meet a MAD that is an eradicationist, but who knows...I know of MADs who believe in plural marriage. :(
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Just read Brock's take on it last night. George Estill's article in the Journal referencing this passage cause me to look it up.

That would mean Wuest has it right. Also means it could have been made a bit clearer in the other translations with the addition of "have," since it's not so much a command to be obeyed as a simple statement of fact for those in Christ that we're to walk in.



I've yet to meet a MAD that is an eradicationist, but who knows...I know of MADs who believe in plural marriage. :(


Hi and we have a member who says that the Old Man is DEAD , and I do need to talk to him and see what he really believes .

Some also believe in Unversal Salvation , some lean to Soul Sleep , and some believe that Saul was saved by the Kingdom Gospel !!

We are all over the place !!

If you read Robert C Brock , then you know first hand why I say he is the BEST teacher I have ever heard or met BUT he is having physical problems !

DAN P
 

musterion

Well-known member
If you read Robert C Brock , then you know first hand why I say he is the BEST teacher I have ever heard or met BUT he is having physical problems !

DAN P

Last I heard from his wife, he was having asthma or some breathing difficulty that was keeping him from talking normally. There may be more on top of it that I don't know about.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Last I heard from his wife, he was having asthma or some breathing difficulty that was keeping him from talking normally. There may be more on top of it that I don't know about.


Hi , and I normally call at least a couple of times a month , but have only talked to his wife and get his take on many subjects and on the Greek text !!

dan p
 

musterion

Well-known member
When you talk next, can you ask him what his view is on Miles Stanford? They're both Calvinists and dispensationalists (though Stanford disliked MAD strongly). I'd be curious to know what he thinks, and if he happened to have any conversations with Stanford before he died.

His wife was very kind; sent me the 2nd half of a Journal article I was missing several months ago.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
When you talk next, can you ask him what his view is on Miles Stanford? They're both Calvinists and dispensationalists (though Stanford disliked MAD strongly). I'd be curious to know what he thinks, and if he happened to have any conversations with Stanford before he died.

His wife was very kind; sent me the 2nd half of a Journal article I was missing several months ago.

Hi and Robert has said that most Calvinist and also A-millennial , so they has a lot of problems and if I get to him I will ask !!

dan p
 

Doom

New member
No, I indeed was a slave to sin while saved.
Not possible. If you were baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ, you belong to Him, no matter where you take Him, or what you do. You either died with Christ and it is no longer you that live, or you were never in Him. Perception does not always equate to truth.
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Paul said the old man, and all that he is and does, is already counted as crucified (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24, Gal 6:14).

Unless my memory is slipping, I know of nowhere that Paul tells believers to crucify their old man, or that believers are even able to do so. Only God can do that.

I said
He said You put to death the deeds of the body.

Rom 8:13-14
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
(NKJ)

And those who are Christ's have crucified. Its what we have to do.

Gal 5:24-26
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
(NKJ)
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
No, I indeed was a slave to sin while saved.

Reread Romans 6. You are either a slave to sin where you do good to please God, or you are a slave to righteousness. When you are set free from sin by dying, you are a slave to righteousness.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
well, to take ANY one scripture by itself leads to inaccuracy and confusion. many single scriptures stand on their own, without much explanation needed. most, must be taken with the entire Book, Letter, Paragraph or Theme (line of thought). Paul speaks of sin and the plight of ALL mankind in almost all of his writings. sure, we can focus soley on our pure, good thoughts and deeds, and our yearning and Love of God through Christ. we can tell each other how to live, and think. what to read and what proves the point we're making. mostly in an effort to be wiser and "more correct". it's actually easy to justify in one's mind that what you're doing and thinking is Godly or Christlike. the plank is in OUR eye. Paul is simply speaking on maturing in Christ. for those that have a calling in whatever vocation, but namely preaching Christ. just me, but i get annoyed at scripture analysis when taken out of the whole story. let's try combining the ENTIRE NT, connecting to the OT. isn't that the purpose of God's Word ?how difficult it must be for people to Understnd The Bible in it's entirety, when folks can so easily get stuck in one Book or section, one theme or truth, without rightly dividing properly. as we speak,there are roughly 7 or 8,000,000,000 people with slightly different ideas about the meaning and purpose of life on earth. many more to come, and who knows exactly how many before us. but i'm pretty sure i've got it right. LOL ! ! ! don't you ? - :juggle: - sorry to end most debates with truth, but let's move forward instead of running in place. sprinting into brick walls -
 
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Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Reread Romans 6. You are either a slave to sin where you do good to please God, or you are a slave to righteousness. When you are set free from sin by dying, you are a slave to righteousness.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.

Then why does Paul say it is a choice the new man in Christ has to make?

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

However if he is not a new man in Christ then he will devise other ways to pretend he is, like saying everything he does is righteous even when it is not, as his false religion teaches him.

LA
 

musterion

Well-known member
I said
He said You put to death the deeds of the body.

Rom 8:13-14
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
(NKJ)

And those who are Christ's have crucified. Its what we have to do.

Gal 5:24-26
24 And those who are Christ's havecrucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
(NKJ)

"Putting to death" is to reckon as crucified, by faith. The believer cannot crucify the old man. The believer can only reckon on God's reckoning the new man as forever dead to the old man, and walk accordingly.
 

Cross Reference

New member
"Putting to death" is to reckon as crucified, by faith. The believer cannot crucify the old man. The believer can only reckon on God's reckoning the new man as forever dead to the old man, and walk accordingly.

Though God sees everything in the present tense, because of the "time factor" in which we mortals live, "Putting to death" connotes a process is in action. Ergo, it is a lifestyle.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Then why does Paul say it is a choice the new man in Christ has to make?

He doesn't. He asks a rhetorical question and answers it NO!

How can we who died live in sin? We cant!

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?.... 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
He doesn't. He asks a rhetorical question and answers it NO!

How can we who died live in sin? We cant!

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?.... 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Yet Christians sin, how can that be?

Some people say that smoking is a violation of the temple of God. Is that true?

Since smoking puts your health at risk, that would be tempting God.
 
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