When were we chosen?

intojoy

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I am in total agreement

Adam did not have any desire to seek the forgiveness of God.
That is why we are limited to his very same degree of total depravity, we would never have chosen God if left to ourselves. God took the first step and like Adam, we accept the fact that we were lost and headed to hell, already condemned. People go to hell because of sin. The only sin that is not going to be allowed is the rejection of God's free gift. If that gift were dependent upon our choosing it then it is not grace. It is only dependent upon our choosing to believe because of divine enabling of God because of grace.
 

Totton Linnet

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we are born from above, not by the will of man nor by the will of the flesh but by the will of God.


...but people insist it was THEIR freewill.
 

Danoh

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Ephesians 1:

4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Verse 6 actually begins to inform the reader "According as" to what this "chosen us in Him" is referring to - "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

In other words, that "before the foundation of the world" God determined in Himself that He would one day accept in the Beloved - in His Son - those who would trust in His Son upon hearing about Him:

11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In short, God determined He would bless a bunch of Godless, lost, hell bound Gentiles one day, upon their hearing of, and trusting exclusively in, His Son for salvation:

Lost Godless Gentiles - Ephesians 2:

3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as
others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Verse 7 is a continuance of the issue of adoption from chapter 1 that Paul is actually asserting God had determined to give to those who trust His Son.

This adoption is similar to the concept Paul writes of in Galatians 4.

It is similar in concept to the concept of Bar Mitzvah: where a father comes to acknowledge his son as no longer a child, but as his heir, as a Son, with the rights privileges of that. Thus, verse 7's:

7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This "adoption" is this here, from Ephesians 1:

8. Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

It is the issue of an inheritance with the Son over all things with the Son by virtue of the fact that we are in Him.

This is why a Rapture, and why the Body will not be returning to the Earth; which is Israel's adoption unto their sonship over the Earth, Isaiah 2:1-5.

Anyway, a lot of gold nuggets to ponder there as to the distinctions between Israel's and the Body's respective adoption.

All par for the course within the Mid-Acts Perspective :)
 

Totton Linnet

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Adam did not have any desire to seek the forgiveness of God.
That is why we are limited to his very same degree of total depravity, we would never have chosen God if left to ourselves. God took the first step and like Adam, we accept the fact that we were lost and headed to hell, already condemned. People go to hell because of sin. The only sin that is not going to be allowed is the rejection of God's free gift. If that gift were dependent upon our choosing it then it is not grace. It is only dependent upon our choosing to believe because of divine enabling of God because of grace.

awkwardly put but true
 

Totton Linnet

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Man was made a moral being (Ge 9:6)--free to chose good or evil. He must be--or love isn't real (Is. 43:7; Rev. 4:11).

Freedom of choice is not freewill for YOU did not create the options, the only One with free sovereign will is God who created and gives and implements each option, whichever we choose
 

serpentdove

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You are being presumptuous to say God would rather Pharaoh repent...
:yawn: 2 Pe 3:9
...[T]here is no supporting scripture.
Any means any (2 Pe 3:9). :plain:
The scripture supports the belief that God purposed to harden Pharaoh's heart that He might show His power.
Pharaoh's heart was hard. God hardened it further. Is that your plan? Looking for diamond hardness, yourself? Zech 7:12

See:

The Twelve Apostles Pt. 3 by R.C. Sproul
When Adam sinned you sinned in him...
I didn't exist at that time. :dizzy:
...as did I...
Men are born in Adam (Rom. 5:12, 16).
...[E]ach time we sin we prove that for we are endorsing Adam...
You don't die for Adam's sin. You die for your own sin (Eze 18:4).
...[W]e sinned as a race, we fell as a race...
You are judged for your own sin (Josh. 7:20).
[Sinned] ...Who bar One hasn't done likewise?
Men born in Adam sin (Ps 51:5). Get yourself a savior (Jn 3:16).
...[T]here was no gospel witness for the Redskin to have chosen.
:AMR: Ac 4:12

Man has an internal testimony (Ro 2:15), an external testimony (Ps 19:1) and the scriptures (Jas 1:18). He is without excuse (Ro 1:20).

Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice and follow Him...
You claim to be a sheep who can hear his voice. :blabla: If that is the case why are you acting like an ornery goat? Jn 8:37
...[W]e are bound to sin, we are in bondage.
Either live a perfect life or get yourself a savior (Jn 3:19).
...[H]ow will he believe what he has not heard?
Man has an internal testimony (Ro 2:15), an external testimony (Ps 19:1) and the scriptures (Jas 1:18). He is without excuse (Ro 1:20).
Freewill is a nonsense...[There is] no such thing as freewill.
Ge 2:17 :dizzy:
 
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Totton Linnet

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You are just too all over the map

Peter says The Lord is not slack etc longsuffering to USWARD not willing that any should perish, there are still folks who are foreknown, predestined, chosen and yet to be called....if God wrapped the thing up now they would not be.

You say Pharoah had freewill I say God hardened his heart, which does the bible support?

You are BORN not now in God's image but in Adam's image....fallen Adam, deal with it

You quote James as saying that "He brought us forth by His own will by His word....that's right, Jesus chose us we did not choose Him

Wait a minute did you just say that YOU live a perfect life? did you just say that anyone who doesn't live a perfect life needs a Saviour? even after they are saved?

Where ARE you?

You saying the Redskins had the scriptures? the ancient Chinese? away with it all, nowhere at any time do we see people saved until the gospel be preached to them....yes they will be judged according to their consciences but not born again
 
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