When does the biblical day begin?

[clefty]

Only because I thought it was confusing you.

14th: slaughter lamb before dark
sun sets: now it is the 15th
eat roasted lamb, finish by morning of the 15th
"Wrath" passes by that same night- the 15th.

In other words with your reckoning the actual passing over of the Wrath is actually on the first of unleavened bread...the 15th...

Explains jews conflict and confusion...

But having the 14th day begin in the morning (after the day previous is ended and numbered) would have the 14th be the day the lambs were slain between the evenings and eaten that same night...and the same night as the actual passing over on the 14th at midnight...none of the thank offering meal left over until the morning which would then be the 15th...

HalleluYah...

 

[clefty]

On the 14th in the evening, the lamb was slaughtered. When the sun set, it became the 15th by the Hebrew reckoning, so it was midnight of the 15th when the firstborn of Egypt died. But be careful- in Western use midnight is the time when one day changes to the next. That is not the case in the Hebrew calendar.

Ok so we untangled the Passover and you did not respond regarding your dividing it into two days...

So on to the day of atonement shall we?

If evening starts a new day is that at noon or the second evening at sundown?

And if evening (sunset) of the 9th begins the 10th...it seems redundant to say the 9th at evening begin your affliction as EVERY day ends at evening...just say the 10th and that evening of the 9th would already be understood...

Or?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Only because I thought it was confusing you.

14th: slaughter lamb before dark
sun sets: now it is the 15th
eat roasted lamb, finish by morning of the 15th
"Wrath" passes by that same night- the 15th.

The "wrath" passed over on the 14th and not the 15th:

"And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians" (Num.33:3).​

The "wrath" passed over at midnight of the 14th and then in the morning when the Israelites departed from Rameses it had become the 15th. The Scriptures scrream out that the passover was on the 14th:

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD"​

(Num.28:16).​

 

[chair]

The verses are difficult. Some say that there were originally two holidays: Passover and Unleavened Bread. That doesn't realat directly to the question of when the day begins, mind you.

For us this is of academic interest. We do what our tradition says. What I described is how things were done in Temple times, and how the holiday is celebrated to this day. Nobody is going to change the timing of a holiday based on some particular interpretation of the text.

Others here seem very excited about this issue. Jesus didn't even live in "biblical times"!

 

[daqq]

The verses are difficult. Some say that there were originally two holidays: Passover and Unleavened Bread. That doesn't realat directly to the question of when the day begins, mind you.

For us this is of academic interest. We do what our tradition says. What I described is how things were done in Temple times, and how the holiday is celebrated to this day. Nobody is going to change the timing of a holiday based on some particular interpretation of the text.

Others here seem very excited about this issue. Jesus didn't even live in "biblical times"!

Lol, now you sound like the dispensationalists and MADists: you've created a separate "age" for "biblical times" because you do not accept the New Testament as "biblical".

 

[clefty]

The verses are difficult. Some say that there were originally two holidays: Passover and Unleavened Bread. That doesn't realat directly to the question of when the day begins, mind you.

For us this is of academic interest. We do what our tradition says. What I described is how things were done in Temple times, and how the holiday is celebrated to this day. Nobody is going to change the timing of a holiday based on some particular interpretation of the text.

Others here seem very excited about this issue. Jesus didn't even live in "biblical times"!

“We do what our tradition says.” wow...but yes we know that...and that it is not according to scripture...

And to preserve your tradition is exactly what He was killed for...confirming what He said about “synagogue of Satan” “Children of the father of lies” “brood of vipers” and all that...

 

[chair]

“We do what our tradition says.” wow...but yes we know that...and that it is not according to scripture...

And to preserve your tradition is exactly what He was killed for...confirming what He said about “synagogue of Satan” “Children of the father of lies” “brood of vipers” and all that...

How we got from traditions to vipers is beyond me.

Do you know what the Bible (Old Testament) is?

 

[jamie]

The Passover was sacrificed the afternoon of the 14th, it was roasted and eaten that night after sunset on the 15th, an annual holy day and the first day of Unleavened Bread.

"On the first day there shall be a holy convocation and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them, but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you. So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt." (Exodus 12:16-17)

"It is a night of solemn observance to the Lord for bringing them out of the land of Egypt." (Exodus 12:42)

The night of the 15th celebrates freedom, not death and was observed before the death of the unprotected firstborn.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The verses are difficult. Some say that there were originally two holidays: Passover and Unleavened Bread. That doesn't realat directly to the question of when the day begins, mind you.

No, they are not difficult. And yes, the Scriptures reveal that there are two distinct and separate feasts, one being the "Passover" and the other being the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" (see Leviticus 23:5-6).

The Passover was observed on the 14th as a memorial to the night when the blood stained houses were passed over (Ex.12:13-14) and the Feast of Unleavened Bread was a memorial to the day when the children of Israel left Egypt (Ex.16:17).

Therefore, the Passover was not observed on the 15th because that day was reserved for the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, a memorial to the day when the Israelites left Egypt.

 

[clefty]

How we got from traditions to vipers is beyond me.

vipers is what He called them because they preferred their own traditions rather than His Father’s commandments...

Do you know what the Bible (Old Testament) is?

sure...it’s a long documentation of Him trying to get you to do His will rather than your traditions...

 

[chair]

...
sure...it’s a long documentation of Him trying to get you to do His will rather than your traditions...

No. It is the oldest traditions of the Jews, recorded in a book.

 

[clefty]

No. It is the oldest traditions of the Jews, recorded in a book.

It’s much more than just about the jews...although yours played a role...wouldn’t be too impressed with it though...certainly wouldn’t claim it but would repent...but then that is documented as something not in your tradition...lol

Yup but much more than about you...yours...

 

[Wick Stick]

At evening time, the time when women go out to draw water, (Gen 24:11, John 4:6-7).
Because an evening and a morning are a yom. :chuckle:

And what are שְׁנַת? (H8141)

 

[daqq]

And what are שְׁנַת? (H8141)

Not sure I want to answer because of the construct you posted, (lol). But I see shaneh/shanah as a revolution or a turning because of how the "year turns" in the fall. See Exodus 23:16, "the going out of the year", what does this phrase mean and why or how does "the year go out" in the seventh month? Then see the Exodus 34:22 companion passage, "the revolution of the year", what does this phrase mean also? for it is speaking of the same feast and time of year, (the turning of the year, the revolution of the year, the going out of the year, but how can this be?).

 

[Wick Stick]

Not sure I want to answer because of the construct you posted, (lol). But I see shaneh/shanah as a revolution or a turning because of how the "year turns" in the fall. See Exodus 23:16, "the going out of the year", what does this phrase mean and why or how does "the year go out" in the seventh month? Then see the Exodus 34:22 companion passage, "the revolution of the year", what does this phrase mean also? for it is speaking of the same feast and time of year, (the turning of the year, the revolution of the year, the going out of the year, but how can this be?).

Feel free to ignore the diacritical marks. I know I do.

I think we talked about this once before? More than one yowm in a yowm, and within the shana'im, a number of shana'im. Is that familiar? I don't always remember who I had what discussions with, but then again, there aren't very many people with which I could have had that discussion...

 

[Wick Stick]

vipers is what He called (the Pharisees) because they preferred their own traditions rather than His Father’s commandments...

Actually, I think it's worse than that.

The Jews, from their inception, were a mixed group. Jesus said that the tares were planted along with the wheat. Paul said not all Israel is really Israel.

I believe Jesus was questioning whether they weren't bastards - illegitimate as Israelites.

 

[chair]

Actually, I think it's worse than that.

The Jews, from their inception, were a mixed group. Jesus said that the tares were planted along with the wheat. Paul said not all Israel is really Israel.

I believe Jesus was questioning whether they weren't bastards - illegitimate as Israelites.

Do whatever you can to make the Israelites not_real_israelites, so you can claim the title of True_Israelites (TM). All methods of fantasy and lies are legitimate in pursuit of this goal.

 

[Wick Stick]

I haven't done anything, other than point out what the book says.

Is it difficult being the villains of your own history book?

 

[daqq]

Feel free to ignore the diacritical marks. I know I do.

I think we talked about this once before? More than one yowm in a yowm, and within the shana'im, a number of shana'im. Is that familiar? I don't always remember who I had what discussions with, but then again, there aren't very many people with which I could have had that discussion...

Yeah, that was probably me. There are twelve yamim-hours in a yom-day, (Num 7:10-84, John 11:9). And also there are seven yamim-hours in the shabuim of Daniel which pertain to the daily offerings and prayer times, which are the six yamim of creation, (Exo 20:11, 31:17), and the daily Shabbat hour. Thus Num 7:12 calls the first hour of the day, (on the sundial), "yom ha-rishon", while the first hour of the shabuim is called "yom echad" in Gen 1:5.

When it comes to years, if you are not constrained by the Masorete commentary, (for that is essentially what the Masorete text is: one giant commentary on the entire Hebrew text), then when it comes to the construct or form which you posted, I would say that it can also be read as two years, twain years, twofold years, double/doubles of years, "two's", "sets", etc., and so on, (which is more commonly shenatayim as in Gen 11:10). But in this sense, like as it is used in Gen 41:50, what if it actually means two periods that make up a full year? for as shown in my previous post, the year turns, revolves, and goes out with the feast of Ingathering.

Genesis 41:50
50 And unto Yoseph were born two sons before the coming of the shenat of famine, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him.

The "shenat of famine" are seven and thus the shenat of plenty would also be seven: what if this is seven periods of what we would consider half-years or six months? The time would be seven years total, fourteen shenat periods of six months apiece, that is, three and one half years of plentiful peace and safety and three and one half years of great tribulation, (hehe).

What one must be willing to do is to literally believe what the passages in my previous post actually say. The KJV even calls it "the end of the year" in one passage and "the year's end" in the other, even though the wording is not the same, and they are clearly companion passages:

Exodus 23:16 KJV
16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, [בצאת השנה – "betzet hashanah" – "in the going out of the year"] when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

Exodus 34:22-23 KJV
22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end [תקופת השנה – "tekuphat hashanah" – "the revolution-circuit of the year"].
23 Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.

So you might either have seven months and five months or six months and six months, which are like sets that make up a full year, a set or double of shenat to make one shanah, (the Yobel-Jubilee is proclaimed in the tenth of the seventh chodesh: note, I did not say the tenth day of the seventh chodesh, lol, can of worms, pandora's box, doors opening, (in the good sense)).

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Yeah, that was probably me. There are twelve yamim-hours in a yom-day, (Num 7:10-84, John 11:9). And also there are seven yamim-hours in the shabuim of Daniel which pertain to the daily offerings and prayer times, which are the six yamim of creation, (Exo 20:11, 31:17), and the daily Shabbat hour. Thus Num 7:12 calls the first hour of the day, (on the sundial), "yom ha-rishon", while the first hour of the shabuim is called "yom echad" in Gen 1:5.

When it comes to years, if you are not constrained by the Masorete commentary, (for that is essentially what the Masorete text is: one giant commentary on the entire Hebrew text), then when it comes to the construct or form which you posted, I would say that it can also be read as two years, twain years, twofold years, double/doubles of years, "two's", "sets", etc., and so on, (which is more commonly shenatayim as in Gen 11:10). But in this sense, like as it is used in Gen 41:50, what if it actually means two periods that make up a full year? for as shown in my previous post, the year turns, revolves, and goes out with the feast of Ingathering.

Genesis 41:50
50 And unto Yoseph were born two sons before the coming of the shenat of famine, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him.

The "shenat of famine" are seven and thus the shenat of plenty would also be seven: what if this is seven periods of what we would consider half-years or six months? The time would be seven years total, fourteen shenat periods of six months apiece, that is, three and one half years of plentiful peace and safety and three and one half years of great tribulation, (hehe).

What one must be willing to do is to literally believe what the passages in my previous post actually say. The KJV even calls it "the end of the year" in one passage and "the year's end" in the other, even though the wording is not the same, and they are clearly companion passages:

Exodus 23:16 KJV
16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, [בצאת השנה – "betzet hashanah" – "in the going out of the year"] when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

Exodus 34:22-23 KJV
22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end [תקופת השנה – "tekuphat hashanah" – "the revolution-circuit of the year"].
23 Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.

So you might either have seven months and five months or six months and six months, which are like sets that make up a full year, a set or double of shenat to make one shanah, (the Yobel-Jubilee is proclaimed in the tenth of the seventh chodesh: note, I did not say the tenth day of the seventh chodesh, lol, can of worms, pandora's box, doors opening, (in the good sense)).