When does life begin? Granite vs. reality
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CRASH
TOL Subscriber
avatar382 said:Exactly right. And, by extension, would make not implanting a huge blessing, and implanting and being born, at best, is a gamble with your eternal life.
Oh, and
How stupid can you:loser: get?
Dying and not getting to live more than a few days after conception is a huge blessing? You must have a pretty crappy existence. No wonder you're
There is no gamble with eternal life. Jesus paid the price and redeemed us from the law, you are condemned by that same law, do not care, hate God, and choose to go to hell for eternity.
It's your choice, not a gamble.
Oops, I just crushed a couple of crickets.......:bannana:
CRASH said:How stupid can you:loser: get?
Dying and not getting to live more than a few days after conception is a huge blessing? You must have a pretty crappy existence. No wonder you're
There is no gamble with eternal life. Jesus paid the price and redeemed us from the law, you are condemned by that same law, do not care, hate God, and choose to go to hell for eternity.
It's your choice, not a gamble.
Oops, I just crushed a couple of crickets.......:bannana:
Um, yeah, as Granite said, you missed the point.
Being born and then a few days later going to heaven without having through suffer through the human condition is a blessing. A HUGE one. According to your own worldview, what possible significance could 70 or so human years have next to eternity in heaven?
Oh, and I see you've ignored my rebuttal in post 120. Good job! :thumb:
CRASH
TOL Subscriber
avatar382 said:
I think I got your point just fine. If it's such a blessing to miss life why haven't you cut yours off?
70 years are significant! That's why you haven’t killed yourself - intuitively you realize it's true.
Your point is so stupid in post 120 it isn't worth my time. But oh, well - you keep saying 70 % based on one source that says 40% to 70% and surely includes people on the pill. Even if you are right, with the percentage it does not justify murdering living, human people as happens with the pill and morning after pill.
CRASH said:
I have reached the age of accountability according to your worldview, so ending my life now won't necessarily guarantee I will go straight to heaven.
However, by your logic, should I have failed to attach to my mother's uterus, I would have gone straight to heaven without having to suffer through the human condition, and having zero chance of NOT going to heaven.
My point regarding the 70 years of life on this earth is in regards to the fact that compared to an eternity, 70 years is insignificant.
Lastly, I have provided a source for the 40-70% statistic, and can provide more, whereas Sozo nor anyone else has provided ANYTHING to the contrary. You reject it out of necessity, because it is not what you want to hear. Typical Christian behavior. When you see something that challenges you, you stick your head in the sand.
CRASH
TOL Subscriber
Not sure you understand my logic or world view but once in heaven you will have the choice to reject Christ, just like your father the devil did when he was in Heaven. Remember?avatar382 said:
That's your point not mine. You will give an account for every moment here. So I think it is priceless!
I don't totally reject your statistic. I just don't have time to verify it and don't care. It doesn't prove any important point for you.
My head isn't in the sand - yours is full of
ureX: .CRASH said:
Interesting. So you are saying we will be able to choose God and repent after we die? On "judgement day"? I believe that doctrine is generally regarded as unorthodox, since it really makes life on earth even less important.... I mean, now there is even LESS incentive for me to pay credence to your belief system since if I am wrong and you are right, all I have to do is say sorry and I get to go to heavean, same as you. It makes the church irrelevant - since the last call of salvation is up to the individual in the next life, not the church in this one.
If salvation was decided in the next life, (last chance to accept Christ on judgement day, like you stated) then this life has no real meaning. If salvation is decided in this life (we are to be judged as we lived on earth, no matter how genuinely sorry we are once we are in God's presence) then little ones who are naturally aborted get a go straight to heaven card and are probably among the luckiest among us.
I don't totally reject your statistic. I just don't have time to verify it and don't care. It doesn't prove any important point for you.
My head isn't in the sand - yours is full of
Just because you choose to ignore the point I am making doesn't mean I'm not making one. But I don't blame you. If you don't ignore the points I make, your world may come crumbling down :thumb:
CRASH said:Not sure you understand my logic or world view but once in heaven you will have the choice to reject Christ, just like your father the devil did when he was in Heaven. Remember?
That's your point not mine. You will give an account for every moment here. So I think it is priceless!
I don't totally reject your statistic. I just don't have time to verify it and don't care. It doesn't prove any important point for you.
My head isn't in the sand - yours is full of
I'm not sure how you justify this first point of yours: Lazarus went straight to heaven and Dives went straight to hell with no Q&A ever mentioned.
I see: in other words you prefer to be ignorant and just sidestep whatever's not convenient. Cute trick.
Neither avatar or myself is attempting to justify abortion (at least I'm not), but I am asking...if the fall guaranteed the vast majority of mankind would go straight to heaven without suffering a life of fallen sin, is that not a blessing in disguise?
Granite said:
You can count me on that too - I am not trying to justify abortion in general, either. I just feel that the idea that a blastocyst 12 hours after conception has the same value as a born human being, or even a 7 month old fetus has interesting consequences - consequences I'd like to explore.
death2impiety
Maximeee's Husband
avatar382 said:
By your rationale, you would justify murdering Christians just because they'll go to heaven directly afterwards. Sure you can imagine that you're "setting us free" in a sense. However, you will still be accountable for your actions, just as all the parents of these murdered children will be.
death2impiety said:
1.) We are talking about blastocysts that have been naturally "aborted". That is, naturally fail to implant to the mother's uterus.
The parents never even know what happened.
2.) Christians don't apply to this conversation because they are people at or after the age of accountability and thus are not guaranteed to go to heaven.
A 2 day old blastocyst that failed to implant will go to is certain to heavan, if you believe that he/she has personhood at that point.
3.) Let me ask you a question. What do you believe is the single most important thing to accomplish in this life?
I'll answer first: achieving happiness and fulfullment in our lives.
CRASH said:
:chuckle: And what "miscarried" baby, presumably innocent of all sin, is going to say no, I don't want to go to heaven right there behind those pearly gates, I'd rather go to hell!
The net result is the same. naturally "aborted" blastocysts (40-70%) of human population get an all expenses paid trip straight to heaven while the rest of us have to suffer though the human condition at the risk of losing salvation.
Being born is a curse. At best, you retain your salvation.
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