What was the appearance of the three [LORD,lords] who visited Abraham.

[7djengo7]

People cannot see God

You asserted that already, but you never proved it. You just disappeared and laid low for a little while and have now come back hoping everyone has meanwhile forgotten that you never proved it. Because even you know you have no hope of proving it. Because it's false and manifestly contradicted by the Scripture facts that

• people can see Jesus,
• Jesus is The Word,
• The Word is God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Logic is one part of the meaning, but logic that is not communicated is not applicable to someone who wants to learn. It is logic in the sense that logos does not emphasize the words used but the message behind the words. There are usually more than one way to communicate a particular message. For instance, "God will never leave you nor forsake you," can also be communicated by the words, "God will always be with you"

Same message but with different means of communicating the message.

Like wise with God's word. God has communicated himself to us in various ways, His creation, His written word, words given to angels and prophets to speak, and Jesus Christ, the word in the flesh.

Which reminds of the saying, I would rather see a sermon than hear one. Jesus Christ provided both, a sermon (a word, a message) they could hear and a sermon(a word, a message) they could see.

People cannot see God because God, being spirit, John 4:24, is invisible, I Timothy, so God provided His son who we could both see and hear. A son who always did the Father's will, thus we could learn about God from His son

You asserted that already, but you never proved it. You just disappeared and laid low for a little while and have now come back hoping everyone has meanwhile forgotten that you never proved it. Because even you know you have no hope of proving it. Because it's false and manifestly contradicted by the Scripture facts that

• people can see Jesus,
• Jesus is The Word,
• The Word is God.

@oatmeal I seem to recall showing you from multiple places in scripture where men saw God. You never addressed those challenges to your claim, that men "cannot see God." Here, have a look again:

There are many instances in the Bible where men saw God.

So list them.

Scripture says God is the invisible God.

Col 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1Ti 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Heb 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Hebrews 11:27 does not say He literally saw the invisible God for seeing something or someone who is invisible would mean that the invisible would no longer be invisible. It was as if he saw the invisible God. We do that every time we read scripture that describes an attribute of God.

Sure:

ChatGPT - Verses of Seeing God

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

Oh, and that list doesn't even include all the times people saw Jesus (because Jesus is God in the flesh).



The Bible often speaks in generalities, more often, I'd argue, than it does in absolutes.

For example, Psalms, Proverbs, and much of the Prophets are poetry and figures of speech, rather than woodenly literal statements.

I noticed that you haven't responded to what I said, Oatsy...

Is something preventing you from doing so?

Bump for @oatmeal:

Jesus is not God in the flesh. Jesus is the word in the flesh.

Big difference.

Word is the Greek word, logos, which means message.

Even as scripture is the message in written form, Jesus is the message in the flesh.

Please keep that straight

Saying it doesn't make it so.

God is the logos. Jesus is the logos. Therefore, Jesus is God.



No.

Logos means "logic" or "reason."

"Word" is a mistranslation.



When you can't even respond directly to something you yourself asked for, and then assert that which is false, expecting your opponent to just believe it because you said it, that makes you a fool.

The scripture is also the logos.

God's message is of course, logical and reasonable. However, logos means message

Please be patient with yourself. You can still learn if you become lowly and meek to learn

And that was the last time you referenced or mentioned any of my posts on the matter.

Try again.

 

[oatmeal]

You asserted that already, but you never proved it. You just disappeared and laid low for a little while and have now come back hoping everyone has meanwhile forgotten that you never proved it. Because even you know you have no hope of proving it. Because it's false and manifestly contradicted by the Scripture facts that

• people can see Jesus,
• Jesus is The Word,
• The Word is God.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

By the way, since people saw Jesus, it is conclusive that Jesus is not God.


1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Since people saw Jesus Christ, that passage is referring to God, not to his son.

 

[7djengo7]

Jesus is not God.

By your word, "God", are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?

• If No, then to whom are you referring by it? Whom are you saying Jesus is not, if you are not saying Jesus is not the Father?
• If Yes, then you are merely affirming an essential tenet of Trinitarianism: "Jesus is not [the Father]."

By the way, since people saw Jesus, it is conclusive that Jesus is not [the Father].

You're preaching to the Trinitarian choir by your affirmation that the Son is not the Father.

People cannot see God

By your word, "God", are you referring to the Father? Are you saying people "cannot see" the Father? Yes or No?

What do you mean by your phrase, "cannot see God"? That phrase is not in Scripture.

Why do you refuse to address the John 1 facts that Jesus is the Word, and that the Word is God?

 

[7djengo7]

People cannot see God

So, then, is Matthew 5:8 false?

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

It's your "cannot" versus Scripture's "shall".

(And, don't imagine the fact of a difference of Greek words behind the respective instances of "see" in this verse and in John 1:18 is going to help you out of your dilemma.)

Basically, you've made yourself into a "corrector" of Jesus: "On the contrary, Jesus, they shall NOT see God, because people cannot see God!"

 

[Insight me]

have you ever noticed the Quran using the term " "Injil" " when referring to the Gospels

perhaps this was to promote the Greek word "" ángelos " meaning "messenger" or "angel,"

the word angel has roots in ancient Greek literature and philosophy and also is similar to the word " "Injil" "
perhaps Mohammud was attempting to use a Greek form of the word " Message " referring to the Gospel which means

euaggelion = good message / good news as " "Injil" " - as a side note, the word " "Injil" " is not an Aabic word but is of unknown origin to most people

 

[oatmeal]

By your word, "God", are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?

• If No, then to whom are you referring by it? Whom are you saying Jesus is not, if you are not saying Jesus is not the Father?
• If Yes, then you are merely affirming an essential tenet of Trinitarianism: "Jesus is not [the Father]."

You're preaching to the Trinitarian choir by your affirmation that the Son is not the Father.


By your word, "God", are you referring to the Father? Are you saying people "cannot see" the Father? Yes or No?

What do you mean by your phrase, "cannot see God"? That phrase is not in Scripture.

Why do you refuse to address the John 1 facts that Jesus is the Word, and that the Word is God?

Jesus, as the son of God, the son of the Father, is clearly neither God, nor the Father. He is the son of God who refers to himself as Father.

One essential part of the definition of the trinity is the three. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is referred to as the son of God many times in scripture. Last count I read is over 50 times. but not once is he referred to as "God the Son" I will go with scripture, not an unscriptural name or title.

I do not refuse to address John 1. The word "word" in the Greek is the word, logos, which simply means message, not referring to the actual words used, but the thought behind the message.

Thus we learn that God is the message, His son Jesus Christ is the message in the flesh, even as the scriptures in the message in written form.

When we keep things simple, the truth is clear, and therefore, not forced to make up or adopt pagan theologies to substantiate erroneous doctrines.

Logos means message. God has communicated himself as the message in a variety of ways to mankind. He wants us to know him as the benevolent, loving God and Father that He is. He has communicated himself in a variety of ways to us. Spiritually, via the prophets, including Jesus Christ, angels, nature and the written word.

 

[oatmeal]

So, then, is Matthew 5:8 false?

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

It's your "cannot" versus Scripture's "shall".

(And, don't imagine the fact of a difference of Greek words behind the respective instances of "see" in this verse and in John 1:18 is going to help you out of your dilemma.)

Basically, you've made yourself into a "corrector" of Jesus: "On the contrary, Jesus, they shall NOT see God, because people cannot see God!"

Have you "seen" God?

No?

Why not?

Are you not pure in heart?

I have seen God's actions in my life. I can see God via his actions, His word, His promises becoming real in my life.

God is spirit. John 4:24 Spirit is not visible to the physical eye, not to the five senses in any way, shape or form. We can see the manifestation of spirit but not spirit itself.

 

[7djengo7]

Jesus, as the son of God, the son of the Father, is clearly neither God, nor the Father.

By your word, "God", are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?

• If No, then to whom are you referring by it?
• If Yes, then this is what you've just handed us:

Jesus, as the son of [the Father], the son of the Father, is clearly neither [the Father], nor the Father.

How many times in one sentence do you need to repeat the obvious, Trinitarian truth that Jesus is not the Father?

 

[7djengo7]

One essential part of the definition of the trinity is the three. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

So, then, you agree that the Trinity is, in fact, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit?

I do not refuse to address John 1.

I did not say you "refuse to address John 1", weasel. Rather, I asked you:

Why do you refuse to address the John 1 facts that Jesus is the Word, and that the Word is God?

So far, you have refused to deal with those facts.

• Is Jesus the Word? Yes or No? (John 1:14)
• Is the Word God? Yes or No? (John 1:1)

 

[7djengo7]

People cannot see God

I can see God

 

[oatmeal]

Yes, I can see God by the works that He does. I can see God by the written word that He authored to instruct and inform and teach us and guide us. I can see God by the works that Jesus Christ did, that same Jesus Christ who always did the will of the Father. As Jesus said, as recorded in John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Although I have not literally seen Jesus Christ in action in the flesh, I can read of his works and read his words which all proceeded from God, who is Jesus' Father

 

[7djengo7]

I can see God

People cannot see God

Ergo, you're not people?

 

[7djengo7]

Yes, I can see God by the works that He does.

You're really going to continue running with that shtick, eh? -- you're trying to hand us mumbo jumbo in vain hope that it will somehow smokescreen the abject irrationality that is your thinking.

Please describe for us what it would even be to "see [someone] by the works that [they do]". Give us an example of you "seeing", say, your USPS letter carrier, or your local grociery clerk "by the works that he [or she] does".

 

[oatmeal]

Ergo, you're not people?

Ergo, you're not people?

I explained myself quite thoroughly.. I cannot see God with my physical eyes, but I can see His works in and around my life with my physical eyes. God, being spirit, is invisible to the physical eyes, but His works are not invisible. Since I can see His works. I am seeing God's handiwork

 

[oatmeal]

Did you read all of what I posted.

No, obviously, you did not.

To sum up:

I explained myself quite thoroughly.. I cannot see God with my physical eyes, but I can see His works in and around my life with my physical eyes. God, being spirit, is invisible to the physical eyes, but His works are not invisible. Since I can see His works. I am seeing God's handiwork

 

[7djengo7]

I can see God

I cannot see God

 

[7djengo7]

After your having said

People cannot see God

why would you ever turn around and say (thrice)

I can see God

?

Did you read all of what I posted.

Did you mean to ask me a question? I read all of what you posted, and you've posted absolutely nothing that is going to whitewash your glaring self-contradiction.

 

[oatmeal]

After your having said

why would you ever turn around and say (thrice)

?



Did you mean to ask me a question? I read all of what you posted, and you've posted absolutely nothing that is going to whitewash your glaring self-contradiction.

It is not a contradiction, when you read what is intended.

You remind me of the person who declares that the Bibles says, there is no God.

Can you literally quote, "there is no God" from the Bible?

Yes, you can.

Here are several examples:

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

1 Kings 8:23
And he said, Lord God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:

2 Kings 1:16
And he said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down off that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.

2 Kings 5:15
And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

2 Chronicles 6:14
And said, O Lord God of Israel, there is no God like thee in the heaven, nor in the earth; which keepest covenant, and shewest mercy unto thy servants, that walk before thee with all their hearts:

Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psalm 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:14
Thus saith the Lord, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

So, it is there. It is possible to literally quote from the Bible, "there is no God"

But do you think context matters?

 

[7djengo7]

It is not a contradiction,

You don't even know what contradiction is. You'll grumble about my pointing out of this fact, yet you will act in accordance with it by not being able to respond rationally to my request for you to describe exactly what you mean whenever you call something "a contradiction".

when you read what is intended.

I read what you wrote. Did you intend to write something other than what you wrote?

But do you think context matters?

Do you think meaninglessly chanting popular slogans like "context matters" matters? Just about everybody does that as a matter of reflex when something he/she has written comes under inconvenient criticism and questioning.

You remind me of the person who declares that the Bibles says, there is no God.

Their name, please? To whom are you referring by your phrase, "the person who declares..."? I want to know more of this person you say I remind you of. Can you please give a link to documentation of his or her exact words wherein he or she says what you're saying he or she says? I'd like to see the context in which he or she says what you're saying he or she says. Or, is this a situation in which you'd happen to be willing to refrain from saying "context matters"?

It is possible to literally quote from the Bible, "there is no God"

What's your "point"? You can also quote from the Bible, "I love...New...Y...or...k".