:chuckle:
ECT What is Preterism
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
:chuckle:
Interplanetary sure has an abundance of hatred for M.A.D. :chuckle:
Well, some folks like Interplanetary just desire to be ignorant of the truth. And, that's their right as a member of the human race. 
Nothing changed in the gospel from its inception.
You have no scripture and certainly no authority to say it did.
Adding to Gods word is a sin.
LA
God's Truth
New member
God does not care about ethnicity anymore.
When Jesus started his earthly ministry, faithless Jews were already cut off and bound over to where the disobedient Gentiles were. There were Jews though who of course were saved, they were the remnant.
Since Jesus was crucified, then all have a chance to be saved, even the faithless Jews who were cut off.
There isn't going to be another time when the Jews get some kind of other chance that no one else in the world gets. All our bound together.
Sound like we agree.
The Jews that had faith before Jesus came, and during Jesus' time on the earth...those Jews are in the body of Christ. All must be in the body of Christ to be saved. The scriptures speak about the SPIRITS OF THE righteous made perfect by the blood of Christ. The spirits of the righteous means those who have died in the flesh but who lived on in their spirits.
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Circumcision is a WORK, a work that would later be the seal evidence of following the purification works.
Abraham was the first to do the WORK of circumcision.
Circumcision, are no circumcision in itself is not sinful, EXCEPT to NOT get circumcised when God commands it then makes it a sin.
Paul explains that since Jesus, we are not saved by works. The works Paul is speaking about is the righteous works called the purification/ceremonial works, such as circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals.
Please believe it that Paul is NOT saying we are not saved by faith without obedience.
That would be insane.
Abraham OBEYED, and that is the reason God gave Abraham the promises!
Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, becauseAbraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
A person can lose salvation.
As for Jesus justifying us, we are cleaned by his blood and no one has to use the blood of animals just to go to the temple to worship God where His Spirit was, for we are cleaned by Jesus and become the temple.
The Mid-Acts Distintiction is not actually the Israel-Body Distinction, rather; the Apostle Paul's Distinct Apostleship and Ministry itself, is.
The Israel-Body Distinction as a mainstream distinction in the modern era appears to have been one of Darby's contributions.
Not that any of this will matter to Dispy and or MAD Dispy detractors; who continue to prove their willing cluelessness as to how Darby actually came to the Israel-Body Distinction as a result of his time in Scripture.
Over the years, I have yet to read or hear one detractor of Darby able to prove any competence at looking into, let alone being able to see, the actual origin of how Darby recovered the Israel-Body Distinction.
These fools all lament the Dispy disrepects their words.
This, as they not only continually prove their incompetence at looking at a thing, but continue to slander the man's contribution.
Even most Dispys - most MADs included - appear to not have a clue as to how it was that Darby arrived at his conclusions - the very principle that later allowed the reemergence of the Mid-Acts Distinction.
Given this, I doubt any Dispy detractor will ever get that much straight.
The Israel-Body Distinction as a mainstream distinction in the modern era appears to have been one of Darby's contributions.
Not that any of this will matter to Dispy and or MAD Dispy detractors; who continue to prove their willing cluelessness as to how Darby actually came to the Israel-Body Distinction as a result of his time in Scripture.
Over the years, I have yet to read or hear one detractor of Darby able to prove any competence at looking into, let alone being able to see, the actual origin of how Darby recovered the Israel-Body Distinction.
These fools all lament the Dispy disrepects their words.
This, as they not only continually prove their incompetence at looking at a thing, but continue to slander the man's contribution.
Even most Dispys - most MADs included - appear to not have a clue as to how it was that Darby arrived at his conclusions - the very principle that later allowed the reemergence of the Mid-Acts Distinction.
Given this, I doubt any Dispy detractor will ever get that much straight.
Interplanner
Well-known member
GT,
I don't know how to relate this:
Please believe it that Paul is NOT saying we are not saved by faith without obedience.
That would be insane.
Abraham OBEYED, and that is the reason God gave Abraham the promises!
To the numerous references to Abraham's faith before circumcision in Rom 4... It is Christ's obedience that eventually gains blessings for those who believe. So they have a high view of obedience, but in a different way.
I don't know how to relate this:
Please believe it that Paul is NOT saying we are not saved by faith without obedience.
That would be insane.
Abraham OBEYED, and that is the reason God gave Abraham the promises!
To the numerous references to Abraham's faith before circumcision in Rom 4... It is Christ's obedience that eventually gains blessings for those who believe. So they have a high view of obedience, but in a different way.
Consider that although I understood what you meant; you know she is going to have to ask you what you meant.
For you said one thing, and then APPEARED TO contradict it; in the same post.
You do that often.
Just a thought...
God's Truth
New member
Obeying Moses is obeying Jesus.
How do we obey Moses, and how is that equal to obeying Jesus? Jesus fulfilled what Moses said!
I will tell you how.
Moses says to come to the tent/temple, where God's Spirit is.
We are to come to the High priest.
There is to be animal sacrifices.
That is about OBEYING.
Jesus is our High Priest, and he is our animal sacrifice, and we become the tent/temple of the Holy Spirit.
We have to obey what God says no matter what He says to do.
In the time of Adam and Eve, it was just one command, but is was what God said!
In the time of Noah, it was do not be wicked.
In the times of Abraham, it was obey everything He said and get circumcised.
In the time of Moses, it was obey everything God says, get circumcision, and do other righteous acts to purify one's self.
No one will ever be saved by faith alone.
We have to believe and obey.
Jesus came to earth and gave us many teachings, and then he shed his blood for the NEW covenant.
Covenant's of blood MUST BE OBEYED EXACTLY.
Why do you throw away ALL THE WORDS in the WHOLE BIBLE that speak about obeying?!!!
Do you really think that God has done away with everything He says and warns us about?!!!
Interplanner
Well-known member
Faith is only as good as its object. You either have faith in your own work or in Christ's but both put a healthy emphasis on works. Only one glorifies Christ for what he did.
God's Truth
New member
You would agree with a misunderstanding of the scriptures.
God's Truth
New member
What is wrong with you? How many times do you have to have it explained to you?
It is NOT OUR, or MY works that I am doing!!!
We are to do the works of God.
Interplanner
Well-known member
GT,
The efforts of flesh are the house built on stone.
Faith in Jesus's work of Perfect Love, Sacrifice and Moses is the House built on the Rock.
Matthew 7:24-27English Standard Version (ESV)
Build Your House on the Rock
24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
........... Fleshly effort is utter ruin.
Jesus work is Perfect.
We don't sin that grace should abound!
But we never put effort into Salvation.
Jesus is our effort.
Our work is different than Jesus's work.
Love and the fruit the Spirit of Christ naturally yields in us is the walk.
It requires humility to constantly admit that we are in constant need of Jesus, and it takes humility to turn away from trust in our efforts.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's not what Nameless meant :chuckle:
God's Truth
New member
Justification through Christ is being washed of our sins through Christ and given the Holy Spirit.
Jesus saves us all on his own, but he also gets to choose those he saves.
Who does Jesus save?
Jesus tells us who he saves.
He saves he saves those he accepts. See Acts 15:8.
Who does Jesus ACCEPT?
Jesus accepts those who fear God and do what is right.
See Acts 10:35, and Acts 13:26, and more.
Interplanner
Well-known member
By using the word "wash" you've immediately swerved into analogies about salvation. I get the idea that something was dirty and needed to be cleaned, but justification is much more powerful and specific than that. "Washed" may miss what's going on.
Justification is from the root of words that have to do with the final day of justice, of righting all wrongs. After the gospel was accomplished, Paul could say that God was "now just--and justifier of the person who has faith in Jesus." The righteousness of God was made known in the Gospel so that men could be justified. Rom 3. All wrongs must be righted, but most of us, if we are honest, are overwhelmed in things we cannot fix.
In other words, the Gospel event was PART OF the eschaton--the events of the end of time. It was a merciful moment in which the Judge of all sees the predicament of the guilty race and says, 'hold on, I'll go down and stand in their place.' This 'going down' to do this for us will justify us of our sins before him, so that he can accept us. It is as though the horrors of the judgement day have been moved forward and are behind us. It was still horrible--by any account of the suffering of Christ--but now we can see that that was done for us and we are justified from our record through him.
His righteousness is then credited or transferred to our account! This is very different from changes in us personally, although we do change personally because of it. You see an explosion take place a mile away, but then later the sound shock hits you. They are two different things, but they are related. The crediting of righteousness is what the reconciliation (of accounts) is about in 2 Cor 5.
Because of this we can conclude a few things:
1, God take his law very seriously
2, absolutely nothing outside the work and sacrifice of Christ can justify us from our sins
3, justification is how God can accept us which is much more the question than whether we can accept Christ. God cannot accept sinners. But if their account is credited with a perfect, infinite righteousness, they can be accepted and they can change.
4, 'accepting Christ' has the role of a property seller accepting a counter offer or final offer. It is an agreement that #1--3 above are the basic reality of the situation we are dealing with. It is not work as in the labor toward that purchase but it is needed to have closure, a necessary agreement.
God's Truth
New member
What? Obeying Jesus' teachings is building your house on the ROCK.
Here, you have been rebuked by the scripture that you brought in. LOL
What does Jesus say?
Jesus says Everyone who hears these words of mine AND DOES THEM. AND DOES THEM!
Are you that stubborn so that you will not humble yourself and see the truth?
Are you deaf and blind?
You just gave a scripture that says AND DOES THEM, does them---does them are the commands of Jesus, his teachings!
You had better open yours eyes and ears, and the only way that can happen is by obeying Jesus and humbling youself.
You are not blessed as Jesus' family, as his friend, if you do not obey him!
Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
John 13:17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.
Did you read those scriptures from the Word of God?!!!
Blessed are those who hears and obeys!
Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
Did you read that stubborn heart?
WHOEVER DOES WHAT GOD SAYS IS JESUS' FAMILY!
John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.
Did you read that?
You are NOT Jesus' friend if you do not obey!
We are not blessed as a family member and friend unless we obey.
Stop resisting the Holy Spirit and believe that we have to obey.