What Is Morality, and is it Absolute?

[soulquestion]

Concerning the concept that we are here to learn how to perceive and choose God’s will over our own please see the following.

(In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus tells us to pray that God’s will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven (i.e., we should submit to God’s will). See Matthew 6:9-15.).

Matthew 7:21-27 Not everyone who praises me will enter Heaven, Jesus said, but only those who do the will of my Father in Heaven.

Matthew 12:46-50 When told that his mother and brothers stood outside and wanted to speak with him, Jesus responded, who is my mother and who are my brothers? Then he stretched his hands out to his disciples and said, look, here are my mother and brothers. Whoever does the will of my Father in Heaven is my brother, sister and mother.

Luke 11:27-28 While Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd said, blessed the womb that bore you and the breasts that fed you. Jesus responded, yea, rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.

(Jesus said his food is to do the will of the One Who sent him. John 4:31-38.)

John 5:30-47 Jesus said, of my own self I can do nothing. As I hear, I judge and my judgment is just because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of the Father Who sent me.

John 14:29-31 At the Last Supper, Jesus told the disciples, I’ve told you what is going to happen before it happens, so when it does happen you might believe. I won’t talk to you much after this because the prince of this world is coming and he doesn’t have anything in (any control over) me. It (i.e., what is about to happen) is so that the world may know that I love the Father and I submit to whatever command the Father gives me. (Then, in John 15:1-6 he told us to do as he did, to be branches from his vine.)

(These quotes are from the book “Jesus Said… by subject, all he said in the Gospel”)

We cannot be released from the cycle of reincarnation until we learn to choose God’s will over our own. Jesus said, you may say you did great things in my name, but I will send you away and call you evil if you do not do the will of my Father in Heaven (Matthew 7:21-23). Where did he get that teaching? Actually, it is one of the most often repeated teachings in the Bible. Noah, Abraham, Jacob and Joseph all learned how to choose God’s will over their own. And though Moses said, not me, send someone else (Exodus 4:10-17) and Jonah tried to run from God (Jonah 1:1-17) they, too, eventually accepted their missions.

God has repeated and repeated this message through His messengers. If you forget your God you will perish for not having listened to the voice of God, Moses warned (Deuteronomy 8:19-20). God implored Israel and Judah to turn away from evil and keep His laws and guidance (2 Kings 17:13). You will be a unique treasure to Me if you keep My laws and do My will, God promised (Exodus 19:3-6). If only Israel would listen and keep My ways I would rescue them, God said (Psalm 81:13-14). If you, God’s servants, have not lived by the law nor submitted to God’s will, He will fall on you suddenly with judgment, Wisdom warned (Wisdom 6:4-6). Keep the commandments and be faithful to His will. God sets fire and water before you. Choose, wrote Ben Sira (Ecclesiasticus 15:15-16). Listen to God’s word. Do justly. Don’t injure the stranger, orphan or widow. Don’t shed innocent blood. If you don’t heed these commands your place will become a ruin, Jeremiah warned (Jeremiah 22:3-5).

They worshipped Him, but lied to Him. Their hearts were not right with God, a psalmist wrote (Psalm 78:36-37). Woe to rebels who don’t consult Me for their plans and so add sin to sin, God said (Isaiah 30:1). If only you had listened to My commandments your prosperity would have been like a river, God lamented (Isaiah 48:18). Those who abandon God are destined for the sword because I called and you would not answer. I spoke and you would not listen. You chose to do evil, God said (Isaiah 65:11-12). Zephaniah wrote that God will judge Judah for turning their back to God, for not seeking God or consulting Him (Zephaniah 1:4-6).

Through Hosea (8:7, 12-13) God said, I gave them the great things of My law but they thought them strange. They have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. God told the Hebrews through Ezekiel, You refused to keep My laws or live by My judgments that must be lived by for (spiritual) life and you profaned My Sabbaths…shall I let Myself be consulted by you? No…I will make you pass under the crook, bring you to respect the covenant and rid you of the rebels who revolt against Me (Ezekiel 20:21, 31, 37-38). Keep God’s law because to not keep it shows contempt for His holy name (presence) Moses warned (Numbers 15:30-31). Ezekiel warned, since you don’t live by God’s law or keep His holy days and since you defile God’s sanctuary, God will be against you without pity (Ezekiel 5:7-8, 11).

Hosea wrote, Israel has violated My covenant and been unfaithful to My law. In vain do they cry for God (Hosea 8:1-8). Amos wrote, Judah has despised God’s law and rejected His commandments. Fire will devour their palaces (Amos 2:4-5). On the day of God’s anger the whole Earth will be consumed and all the living will die. So seek God and be humble. Obey His commands; be upright and you may find shelter, Zephaniah counseled (Zephaniah 1:18, 2:3).

Throughout the Old Testament God strongly threatened the Hebrews if they did not keep the laws of the covenant He gave through Moses, and that their ancestors had agreed to at Mt. Horeb. Retribution was promised for those who chose against God’s rules. Wild animals would eat them and foreigners would eat their harvest (Jeremiah 5:5-17). They would be scattered and die by the sword (Jeremiah 9:11-16, 17:24-27). There would be a famine for God’s word but they wouldn’t find it. God would scatter them among the nations. They would fall and never rise again (Amos 8:4-14, 9:1-10). Darkness would come on them because of their injustice (Micah 2 and 3). They would be given to robbers (Isaiah 42:18-25) and die by fire and the sword (Isaiah 66:3-4, 15-17). Then, because those who were supposed to lead all nations back to God did not change and return to God’s rules after disasters came to them, God said He would pour out His indignation on all the Earth (Zephaniah 3:1-8; Isaiah 24:1-6). God arms creation to punish His enemies, Wisdom said (5:17-23). This comes about naturally as laws of spiritual nature are broken and the energies of rebellion permeate the Earth.

Isaiah wrote that God said He cannot endure Judah’s hypocrisy – their hands are covered in blood. End your wickedness and give justice and your sins will be gone. If you obey the law you will have good. If you refuse, the sword will have you (Isaiah 1:13-20). Woe to those who are full of guilt and pride, who call bad good and good bad, who acquit the guilty for a bribe and deny justice to the upright. Your root will decay for having rejected God’s law, Isaiah wrote (Isaiah 5:18-24). Earth is defiled by humans for they have transgressed the law, changed the ordnance and broken the everlasting covenant, he wrote (Isaiah 24:5). We are expected to live by God’s rules because it is a step toward being able to perceive His presence and daily guidance, so we can choose to do His will in specific situations.

God created us to have free will souls to communicate with. We insult God when we refuse to listen with our spirit to the Spirit of God, and we miss receiving the guidance that only the One Who sees and knows everything can give. Jeremiah wrote, God will bring disaster on you as the fruit of how you think. You don’t listen to My words and have rejected My law, God complained (Jeremiah 6:19). Prophets prophesy lies in God’s name, Jeremiah wrote (Jeremiah 14:14-15). Jeremiah preached, we have sinned; we have not listened to the voice of God (Jeremiah 3:25). When I brought your people from Egypt, God said, I gave no order about sacrifices. My one command to them was: listen to My voice. Then I will be your God (Jeremiah 7:22-23). Why is the country destroyed? Because they forsook My law and didn’t listen to or follow My guidance, God said (Jeremiah 9:12-13). Listen to My voice. Obey My orders. Then you will be My people and I will be your God, God promised (Jeremiah 11:4). Your ancestors abandoned Me and did not keep My law or listen to Me. You have behaved even worse. So I will eject you from this country and show you no more favor, God said (Jeremiah 16:11-13). (Judah) has kindled My great anger, which will burn forever. All are cursed whose heart turns from God…They rejected God, the fountain of Living Water, God said (Jeremiah 17:4-5, 13).

(These paragraphs are quoted from “Jesus, the Formative Years, How Jesus Developed His Theology”.)

 

[JudgeRightly]

Billions of people accept the concept of reincarnation. Billions of people reject it.

The popularity of an idea has no bearing on whether it is true.

Each and every one of us will be held accountable before God for what we believe and how we live.

So then learn the truth and stop teaching falsehoods.

Jesus teaches us how to allow God to guide us to interpret the scriptures, whose authors do not agree on all concepts.

Yeah, it's called letting the text speak for itself, not "I'm going to impose my personal interpretation on the scriotures and take that interpretation as the truth.

(I previously gave Bible references that refer to reincarnation.)

Scripture does not contradict scripture.

"It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgement."

By saved by the Jews he meant himself and those Jews who became his followers, of which there were many. That God will live on Earth refers to the fact that God is everywhere in His creation, always present with us, and when all recognize His presence God will have come on Earth.

I reject your personal interpretation of the Bible in favor of what it actually says.

It doesn't mean that God is only on Earth.

Because you say so?

Where else would He be? Outer space?

I repeat that what I read in the Bible tells me that God loves all souls and though not all souls want to enter by the narrow gate and travel the hard road to salvation, all souls will have the opportunity to do so because God doesn't stop loving a soul just because it has made errors, is weak or is uninformed.

Stamping your foot and repeating yourself won't make what you say magically come true.

 

[Nick M]

For instance, God can kill a human

So can we. There is another term, amoral. Killing is not moral or immoral. This is why we have a vocabulary. Murder is always immoral. Killing is not.

 

[Derf]

So can we. There is another term, amoral. Killing is not moral or immoral. This is why we have a vocabulary. Murder is always immoral. Killing is not.

I allowed for that in my post, which you abbreviated.

Can God murder?

 

[JudgeRightly]

I allowed for that in my post, which you abbreviated.

Can God murder?

No, because He has the right to take back the life that he gave man however He sees fit.

Murder is the unjust taking of human life, and God will not act unjustly.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Concerning the concept that we are here to learn how to perceive and choose God’s will over our own please see the following.

(In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus tells us to pray that God’s will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven (i.e., we should submit to God’s will). See Matthew 6:9-15.).

Matthew 7:21-27 Not everyone who praises me will enter Heaven, Jesus said, but only those who do the will of my Father in Heaven.

Matthew 12:46-50 When told that his mother and brothers stood outside and wanted to speak with him, Jesus responded, who is my mother and who are my brothers? Then he stretched his hands out to his disciples and said, look, here are my mother and brothers. Whoever does the will of my Father in Heaven is my brother, sister and mother.

Luke 11:27-28 While Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd said, blessed the womb that bore you and the breasts that fed you. Jesus responded, yea, rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.

(Jesus said his food is to do the will of the One Who sent him. John 4:31-38.)

John 5:30-47 Jesus said, of my own self I can do nothing. As I hear, I judge and my judgment is just because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of the Father Who sent me.

John 14:29-31 At the Last Supper, Jesus told the disciples, I’ve told you what is going to happen before it happens, so when it does happen you might believe. I won’t talk to you much after this because the prince of this world is coming and he doesn’t have anything in (any control over) me. It (i.e., what is about to happen) is so that the world may know that I love the Father and I submit to whatever command the Father gives me. (Then, in John 15:1-6 he told us to do as he did, to be branches from his vine.)

(These quotes are from the book “Jesus Said… by subject, all he said in the Gospel”)

We cannot be released from the cycle of reincarnation until we learn to choose God’s will over our own. Jesus said, you may say you did great things in my name, but I will send you away and call you evil if you do not do the will of my Father in Heaven (Matthew 7:21-23). Where did he get that teaching? Actually, it is one of the most often repeated teachings in the Bible. Noah, Abraham, Jacob and Joseph all learned how to choose God’s will over their own. And though Moses said, not me, send someone else (Exodus 4:10-17) and Jonah tried to run from God (Jonah 1:1-17) they, too, eventually accepted their missions.

God has repeated and repeated this message through His messengers. If you forget your God you will perish for not having listened to the voice of God, Moses warned (Deuteronomy 8:19-20). God implored Israel and Judah to turn away from evil and keep His laws and guidance (2 Kings 17:13). You will be a unique treasure to Me if you keep My laws and do My will, God promised (Exodus 19:3-6). If only Israel would listen and keep My ways I would rescue them, God said (Psalm 81:13-14). If you, God’s servants, have not lived by the law nor submitted to God’s will, He will fall on you suddenly with judgment, Wisdom warned (Wisdom 6:4-6). Keep the commandments and be faithful to His will. God sets fire and water before you. Choose, wrote Ben Sira (Ecclesiasticus 15:15-16). Listen to God’s word. Do justly. Don’t injure the stranger, orphan or widow. Don’t shed innocent blood. If you don’t heed these commands your place will become a ruin, Jeremiah warned (Jeremiah 22:3-5).

They worshipped Him, but lied to Him. Their hearts were not right with God, a psalmist wrote (Psalm 78:36-37). Woe to rebels who don’t consult Me for their plans and so add sin to sin, God said (Isaiah 30:1). If only you had listened to My commandments your prosperity would have been like a river, God lamented (Isaiah 48:18). Those who abandon God are destined for the sword because I called and you would not answer. I spoke and you would not listen. You chose to do evil, God said (Isaiah 65:11-12). Zephaniah wrote that God will judge Judah for turning their back to God, for not seeking God or consulting Him (Zephaniah 1:4-6).

Through Hosea (8:7, 12-13) God said, I gave them the great things of My law but they thought them strange. They have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. God told the Hebrews through Ezekiel, You refused to keep My laws or live by My judgments that must be lived by for (spiritual) life and you profaned My Sabbaths…shall I let Myself be consulted by you? No…I will make you pass under the crook, bring you to respect the covenant and rid you of the rebels who revolt against Me (Ezekiel 20:21, 31, 37-38). Keep God’s law because to not keep it shows contempt for His holy name (presence) Moses warned (Numbers 15:30-31). Ezekiel warned, since you don’t live by God’s law or keep His holy days and since you defile God’s sanctuary, God will be against you without pity (Ezekiel 5:7-8, 11).

Hosea wrote, Israel has violated My covenant and been unfaithful to My law. In vain do they cry for God (Hosea 8:1-8). Amos wrote, Judah has despised God’s law and rejected His commandments. Fire will devour their palaces (Amos 2:4-5). On the day of God’s anger the whole Earth will be consumed and all the living will die. So seek God and be humble. Obey His commands; be upright and you may find shelter, Zephaniah counseled (Zephaniah 1:18, 2:3).

Throughout the Old Testament God strongly threatened the Hebrews if they did not keep the laws of the covenant He gave through Moses, and that their ancestors had agreed to at Mt. Horeb. Retribution was promised for those who chose against God’s rules. Wild animals would eat them and foreigners would eat their harvest (Jeremiah 5:5-17). They would be scattered and die by the sword (Jeremiah 9:11-16, 17:24-27). There would be a famine for God’s word but they wouldn’t find it. God would scatter them among the nations. They would fall and never rise again (Amos 8:4-14, 9:1-10). Darkness would come on them because of their injustice (Micah 2 and 3). They would be given to robbers (Isaiah 42:18-25) and die by fire and the sword (Isaiah 66:3-4, 15-17). Then, because those who were supposed to lead all nations back to God did not change and return to God’s rules after disasters came to them, God said He would pour out His indignation on all the Earth (Zephaniah 3:1-8; Isaiah 24:1-6). God arms creation to punish His enemies, Wisdom said (5:17-23). This comes about naturally as laws of spiritual nature are broken and the energies of rebellion permeate the Earth.

Isaiah wrote that God said He cannot endure Judah’s hypocrisy – their hands are covered in blood. End your wickedness and give justice and your sins will be gone. If you obey the law you will have good. If you refuse, the sword will have you (Isaiah 1:13-20). Woe to those who are full of guilt and pride, who call bad good and good bad, who acquit the guilty for a bribe and deny justice to the upright. Your root will decay for having rejected God’s law, Isaiah wrote (Isaiah 5:18-24). Earth is defiled by humans for they have transgressed the law, changed the ordnance and broken the everlasting covenant, he wrote (Isaiah 24:5). We are expected to live by God’s rules because it is a step toward being able to perceive His presence and daily guidance, so we can choose to do His will in specific situations.

God created us to have free will souls to communicate with. We insult God when we refuse to listen with our spirit to the Spirit of God, and we miss receiving the guidance that only the One Who sees and knows everything can give. Jeremiah wrote, God will bring disaster on you as the fruit of how you think. You don’t listen to My words and have rejected My law, God complained (Jeremiah 6:19). Prophets prophesy lies in God’s name, Jeremiah wrote (Jeremiah 14:14-15). Jeremiah preached, we have sinned; we have not listened to the voice of God (Jeremiah 3:25). When I brought your people from Egypt, God said, I gave no order about sacrifices. My one command to them was: listen to My voice. Then I will be your God (Jeremiah 7:22-23). Why is the country destroyed? Because they forsook My law and didn’t listen to or follow My guidance, God said (Jeremiah 9:12-13). Listen to My voice. Obey My orders. Then you will be My people and I will be your God, God promised (Jeremiah 11:4). Your ancestors abandoned Me and did not keep My law or listen to Me. You have behaved even worse. So I will eject you from this country and show you no more favor, God said (Jeremiah 16:11-13). (Judah) has kindled My great anger, which will burn forever. All are cursed whose heart turns from God…They rejected God, the fountain of Living Water, God said (Jeremiah 17:4-5, 13).

(These paragraphs are quoted from “Jesus, the Formative Years, How Jesus Developed His Theology”.)

Before going further, I'd like to get a better understanding of what you actually believe.

1. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God, who existed before His incarnation?

2. What must a person do to be saved?

3. What do you believe Jesus accomplished through His death and resurrection?

4. Do you believe the Bible is the authoritative Word of God, or do you believe there are other sources of divine revelation?

5. Where does Scripture teach reincarnation, and how do you reconcile that belief with Hebrews 9:27?

6. Do you believe everyone will eventually be saved?

7. Given that Scripture tells us very little about Jesus' formative years, on what basis does the author of "Jesus, the Formative Years, How Jesus Developed His Theology" claim to know how Jesus developed His theology?

 

[Clete]

Billions of

Billions of people accept the concept of reincarnation.

Billions of people believe in Astrology.

Billions of people believe in ghosts.

Billions of people believe in lucky charms.

Billions of people are Atheists.

Billions of people are Catholic.

Billions of people are fill in the blank.

Billions of people understand your statement to be a textbook example of the argumentum ad populum fallacy.

Billions of people reject it.

Both groups cannot be correct, right?

Each and every one of us will be held accountable before God for what we believe and how we live.

Jesus was held accountable in my place and He took the punishment that I deserve so that I might not die and He rose from the dead that I might live.

John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”​

Jesus teaches us how to allow God to guide us to interpret the scriptures, whose authors do not agree on all concepts.

The Word (Logos - Reason - Logic) became flesh and died and rose from the dead.

Don't insult the God Who is Reason itself by pretending its okay to be irrational. It isn't!

Those who disagree, do so because of reason, whether they are consciously using it or not. The same reason that causes them to disagree requires that they cannot all be right.

(I previously gave Bible references that refer to reincarnation.)

No you didn't.

You gave scripture references into which you read reincarnation. There's a difference.

By saved by the Jews he meant himself and those Jews who became his followers, of which there were many.

In John 4:22, Jesus is speaking to the Samaritan woman about the historical and theological origins of salvation. Reducing that statement to Jesus and the Jews who followed Him misses the point of the passage because it doesn't just ignore the context of the statement, it replaces the context with one that does not exist except inside your own mind.

That God will live on Earth refers to the fact that God is everywhere in His creation, always present with us, and when all recognize His presence God will have come on Earth.

If God's dwelling with mankind means nothing more than His already existing everywhere, then the prophecy announces nothing that wasn't already true.

If you're going to force the bible to say whatever you want it to say, then why bother reading the bible in the first place? Just go believe whatever it is you want to believe!

You instinctively bring the bible into it because you desire for your beliefs to have the Bible's credibility. A thief in an expensive suit is still a thief.

It doesn't mean that God is only on Earth. I repeat that what I read in the Bible tells me that God loves all souls and though not all souls want to enter by the narrow gate and travel the hard road to salvation, all souls will have the opportunity to do so because God doesn't stop loving a soul just because it has made errors, is weak or is uninformed.

God's love doesn't logically entail that He must provide unlimited opportunities for repentance. Nor does the Bible teach that people return repeatedly to earthly life until they finally make the correct decision.

• Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.
• Matthew 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’
• Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
• Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
• Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
• Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.
• 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
• Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

One final point...
You say that, "Each and every one of us will be held accountable before God for what we believe and how we live." Yet you also insists that God will continue providing opportunities for salvation.

What exactly do you believe God's judgment accomplishes if those who reject Him simply get another opportunity to try again?

You will miss the point of that question, so let me spell it out....

You own stated beliefs defeat themselves!


So, you have plenty of problems....

1. The bible that you try to lean on cuts your legs out from under you.
2. Your own stated beliefs contradict themselves.
3. You do not care about either point 1 or 2.

As a result, you will not be moved one single inch off of your flagrant stupidity, no matter what anyone ever says to you.

 

[Derf]

No, because He has the right to take back the life that he gave man however He sees fit.

Murder is the unjust taking of human life, and God will not act unjustly.

Was Abraham wrong to question God's morality regarding taking of human life?
[Gen 18:23, 25 KJV] – 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? ... 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[soulquestion]

Before going further, I'd like to get a better understanding of what you actually believe.

1. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God, who existed before His incarnation?

2. What must a person do to be saved?

3. What do you believe Jesus accomplished through His death and resurrection?

4. Do you believe the Bible is the authoritative Word of God, or do you believe there are other sources of divine revelation?

5. Where does Scripture teach reincarnation, and how do you reconcile that belief with Hebrews 9:27?

6. Do you believe everyone will eventually be saved?

7. Given that Scripture tells us very little about Jesus' formative years, on what basis does the author of "Jesus, the Formative Years, How Jesus Developed His Theology" claim to know how Jesus developed His theology?

1. Jesus said, several times, that he was the Messiah (God had promised to send and that Moses predicted). I believe what Jesus said, that he was the Messiah and that God spoke and worked through him. Yes, Jesus Christ existed before his incarnation.
2. Jesus said that to be saved we must love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength (Mark 12:29-31) we must be as humble as a child (Matthew 18:1-4) we must forgive others so our sins can be forgiven (Matthew 5:17-20) we must live by God's laws (Matthew 19:16-19) and we must reverse our rebellion by learning how to perceive and submit to God's daily guidance (Matthew 7:21-27). We must repent of choosing our will over God's and of all that we have done as a consequence (Matthew 4:17; Luke 24:46-47).
3. By his resurrection after death Jesus proved the reality and power of God, that we live in the spiritual realm after we die here and that the way he taught us to return to God is the true way. Following his teachings and example is how we are saved from continuing to sin. "Believe" actually means to commit to. To believe Jesus' teachings means we commit to living by them.
4. I believe the writers of the Bible were human beings who did not always agree with one another and who wrote their own interpretations and understandings as they felt God was guiding them. I also believe that God speaks in symbols (as Jesus often spoke in symbols and sometimes explained his symbols to the disciples, who didn't initially understand them). Symbols are open to interpretation and the Bible's authors (especially the prophets) have interpreted them -- not always consistently with one another.
5. The Sadducees rejected reincarnation, the Pharisees accepted it. Jesus agreed with the Pharisees. Anastasis means the arising or coming again to life of the dead. In the Apocrypha read Wisdom 2:23 and 16:13-14. (I've already given other references, which you choose to interpret differently than I do. This isn't unusual. Even professional Bible scholars disagree on the interpretation of certain verses in the Bible -- just read the Interpreter's Bible to see some of their many, many disagreements. You seem to think your way of reading the Bible is the only way. That just isn't true. You are entitled to your interpretation. I, and many others who study the Bible, am entitled to our interpretations, too.) If I didn't reference it before, Christian leaders St. Clement of Alexandria, who died in 220 and Origen, who died in 254, both taught reincarnation according to correspondence we have from them. Paul taught it (Acts 23:6-8 and 24:14-16). Constantine suppressed that teaching along with some others when he had the Gospels "harmonized". You base your rejection of reincarnation on one quote from Hebrews. I base my acceptance of it on many references in the Old Testament and the Gospels. Still, you are entitled to your interpretation.
6. Yes, I believe it is God's plan that no soul will be lost -- however long it takes, God wants every soul home.
7. I spent over twelve years studying Judaism so I could better understand Jesus' Jewish perspective and understand the deeper meaning of what he taught. I also used (and use) the laws (some are symbolic) in the old testament and find that it helps me better understand God's guidance to me. If you have a cross referenced Bible you can see for yourself that Jesus quotes and refers to writings in the Old Testament and the Apocrypha hundreds of times during his teachings. That is the basis for showing how Jesus developed his theology. He was reinterpreting the Old Testament for the Jews, who were living by the oral Mishnah, which in some ways rejected the Law of Moses. In addition, as is seen when Jesus' sayings are arranged in subject order, he had the unique ability to draw out of the Torah law the laws for spiritual nature, and that is what he taught that was so different that it split families and angered the religious leaders of his day. He threw out the hundreds of laws rabbis had added in the Mishnah and taught the Torah law by its intentions -- the laws of spiritual nature. You don't have to agree with me on any of this, but that doesn't make me any less a Christian and a child of God's. You are a child of God's, even though we don't interpret the Bible the same way that I do. Read professional Bible scholars -- they don't agree on many of the Bible's verses but they respect one another's rights to disagree. I have given my opinions. You have given your opinions. Is theology online limited to only one opinion?

 

[JudgeRightly]

1. Jesus said, several times, that he was the Messiah (God had promised to send and that Moses predicted). I believe what Jesus said, that he was the Messiah and that God spoke and worked through him. Yes, Jesus Christ existed before his incarnation.

You didn't answer the question.

Is Jesus God?

2. Jesus said that to be saved we must love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength (Mark 12:29-31) we must be as humble as a child (Matthew 18:1-4) we must forgive others so our sins can be forgiven (Matthew 5:17-20) we must live by God's laws (Matthew 19:16-19) and we must reverse our rebellion by learning how to perceive and submit to God's daily guidance (Matthew 7:21-27). We must repent of choosing our will over God's and of all that we have done as a consequence (Matthew 4:17; Luke 24:46-47).

You've listed numerous things we must do.

Sounds very much like a works-based system of salvation.

What happened to Christ's role?

What about what Paul taught in Romans 4?

3. By his resurrection after death Jesus proved the reality and power of God, that we live in the spiritual realm after we die here and that the way he taught us to return to God is the true way. Following his teachings and example is how we are saved from continuing to sin. "Believe" actually means to commit to. To believe Jesus' teachings means we commit to living by them.

Not what I asked.

What did Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection accomplish?

4. I believe the writers of the Bible were human beings who did not always agree with one another and who wrote their own interpretations and understandings as they felt God was guiding them. I also believe that God speaks in symbols (as Jesus often spoke in symbols and sometimes explained his symbols to the disciples, who didn't initially understand them). Symbols are open to interpretation and the Bible's authors (especially the prophets) have interpreted them -- not always consistently with one another.

If the biblical writers contradicted one another, by what consistent standard do you determine which of them correctly understood God?

And how do you know that your own interpretations are correct?

5. The Sadducees rejected reincarnation, the Pharisees accepted it. Jesus agreed with the Pharisees. Anastasis means the arising or coming again to life of the dead. In the Apocrypha read Wisdom 2:23 and 16:13-14. (I've already given other references, ...) . . . If I didn't reference it before, Christian leaders St. Clement of Alexandria, who died in 220 and Origen, who died in 254, both taught reincarnation according to correspondence we have from them. Paul taught it (Acts 23:6-8 and 24:14-16). Constantine suppressed that teaching along with some others when he had the Gospels "harmonized". You base your rejection of reincarnation on one quote from Hebrews. I base my acceptance of it on many references in the Old Testament and the Gospels. ...

Resurrection is not reincarnation. They're two different things.

You've presented several claims about who supposedly believed in reincarnation, but you haven't demonstrated that Scripture actually teaches it, nor have you reconciled your position with Hebrews 9:27.

So, again, I ask:

Where does Scripture teach reincarnation, and how do you reconcile that belief with Hebrews 9:27? You claim to have provided other references, but the passages you've cited in this response do not establish reincarnation.

which you choose to interpret differently than I do. This isn't unusual. Even professional Bible scholars disagree on the interpretation of certain verses in the Bible -- just read the Interpreter's Bible to see some of their many, many disagreements. You seem to think your way of reading the Bible is the only way. That just isn't true. You are entitled to your interpretation. I, and many others who study the Bible, am entitled to our interpretations, too.) . . . Still, you are entitled to your interpretation.

This is all waffle, and I'm not going to respond to it.

6. Yes, I believe it is God's plan that no soul will be lost -- however long it takes, God wants every soul home.

What if they refuse? No matter how much God tries to convince them?

7. I spent over twelve years studying Judaism so I could better understand Jesus' Jewish perspective and understand the deeper meaning of what he taught. I also used (and use) the laws (some are symbolic) in the old testament and find that it helps me better understand God's guidance to me. If you have a cross referenced Bible you can see for yourself that Jesus quotes and refers to writings in the Old Testament and the Apocrypha hundreds of times during his teachings. That is the basis for showing how Jesus developed his theology. He was reinterpreting the Old Testament for the Jews, who were living by the oral Mishnah, which in some ways rejected the Law of Moses. In addition, as is seen when Jesus' sayings are arranged in subject order, he had the unique ability to draw out of the Torah law the laws for spiritual nature, and that is what he taught that was so different that it split families and angered the religious leaders of his day. He threw out the hundreds of laws rabbis had added in the Mishnah and taught the Torah law by its intentions -- the laws of spiritual nature. You don't have to agree with me on any of this, but that doesn't make me any less a Christian and a child of God's. You are a child of God's, even though we don't interpret the Bible the same way that I do. Read professional Bible scholars -- they don't agree on many of the Bible's verses but they respect one another's rights to disagree. I have given my opinions. You have given your opinions. Is theology online limited to only one opinion?

You didn't answer my question.

I didn't ask how long you've studied Judaism, nor did I ask how you interpret Jesus' teachings.

I asked what evidence the author of whatever it is you were quoting in post #21 has concerning how Jesus developed His theology during His formative years, a period about which Scripture tells us very little.

Knowing what Jesus taught during His ministry doesn't establish how He came to know it.

So, again, on what basis does the author claim to know how Jesus developed His theology?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Was Abraham wrong to question God's morality regarding taking of human life?
[Gen 18:23, 25 KJV] – 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? ... 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Abraham was not wrong to challenge God. The God of the Bible is not some abstract Being that follows a set of programming rules to the letter.