ECT What gospel was Paul saved under?

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Danoh

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I can show (as you've been shown before) an example right now of how two of them differ. The WHO of Jesus Christ (the gospel of GOd Romans 1:1-4 KJV) is not the same as they WHY of the cross (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Why try and make that which is different, the same Danoh?

Nope.

All Paul is doing is asserting that the same Christ Who not only was prophesied "of God" in the OT, but Whose resurrection proved Him to be He Who was prophesied has given him his Apostleship in HIS aspect of the gospel of Christ.

All he is doing is what he often does - establishing that his Apostleship is not after men.

He repeats this in Romans 15.

Romans being a laying out of God's Mystery aspect of the gospel of Christ within His Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy (Moses) and Mystery (Paul).

Both...

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

...are the gospel of Christ.

BOTH ARE the good news ABOUT or CONCERNING the son.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

Of course, you end up borrowing the 28ers notion that verse 9 is a different imprisonment and for their EXACT off-base reasons the 28ers assert.

You are Mid-Acts.

But you break from one of its' core principles in some areas - where you read Acts into Romans and Ephesians.

Even Interplanner will tell you one does NOT build doctrine on a book describing a transition like Matthew, Acts, etc.

Nothing against you personally.
 

Danoh

New member
Paul, speaking to Gentiles (Romans 1:13 KJV, Romans 11:13 KJV), says of one of them, "tho art called a Jew,..." (Romans 2:17 KJV).

This is all part of ONE AND THE SAME THOUGHT:

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
 

Danoh

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WHO is not WHY. There's a gospel in Romans 1:1-4 KJV called the gospel of God and there's a gospel declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV called the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16 KJV).

You are over simplifying.

Paul's point in both is the same - that Christ fufilled the Father's Prophesied (Gospel of God) resurrection.

The gospel of (from) God IS the gospel of (concerning His Son) Christ.

Paul's point in 1 Cor. 15 is that the preaching he had delievered them was not in vain, or without Scriptural basis.

That the resurrection he had preached unto them - their resurrection - was certain because Christ rose from the dead - He IS the ONE the Scriptures had prophesied would die for sin and rise again.

He then rattles off various witnesses to this very fact.

In Romans 1 he uses that to point to why he is authorized to be an Apostle - the resurrection's evidence that Jesus was the Christ: the fact that said risen - proven by said resurrection to be Christ Himself - this very Christ gave him his Apostleship.

While in 1 Cor. 15, he applies the evidence of the resurrection - that Jesus was the Christ - to his assertion that their resurrection is based on the fact that Christ died for their sins and rose again from the dead.
 

Danoh

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:thumb:
Me either.

You're not the one calling the FELLOW MADs enemies of the gospel of our salvation and or of the Mystery, just because their approach is consistent, as a result, their understanding differs - heir is...

This, on what amounts to ALMOST Acts 28 views - because it is based on the 28er's exact same oversimplifications :chuckle:

We FELLOW MADs differ with one another approach in these things - that is all that is.

This no more makes FELLOW MAD heir my enemy in my eyes any more than FELLOE MADs who do not subscribe to her approach and or its results, should be in her eyes.

Thus, my quip inspired by STP's quip.

Thus my quip: Pope heir :chuckle:

Because I find it amusing she has taken it upon herself to conclude she is somehow in a position to pronounce FELLOW MADs all the way back to O'Hair "enemies."

That is funny as heck...

Take a chill pill women :chuckle:
 

Danoh

New member
spoken to Gentiles and that one in particular, "called a Jew". And how would a Gentile have been "called a Jew" (Romans 2:17 KJV)? The answer: circumcision (Romans 2:25 KJV! Simple stuff, folks!

Yeah, ok, Paul's admiring "your faith spoken of throughout the world" turns into his condeming "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

Talk about oversimplifying by misreading into a thing and then ending up married to it. - YOUR Paul is one confused writer :chuckle:
 

DAN P

Well-known member
WHO is not WHY. There's a gospel in Romans 1:1-4 KJV called the gospel of God and there's a gospel declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV called the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16 KJV).


Hi and Heir has you in Rom 1:1-4 !!

Rom 1:1 says that Paul " HAVING BEEN SEPARATED " is in the Greek Perfect tense , passive Voice and a PARTICIPLE !!

This means that Paul was separated when Paul was saved !!

The Passive Voice means that God appointed him an apostles and to the God's Gospel !!

The Participle is the word HAVING , which always seem to end in " ING "

DAN P!!
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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You're not the one calling the FELLOW MADs enemies of the gospel of our salvation and or of the Mystery, just because their approach is consistent, as a result, their understanding differs - heir is...

This, on what amounts to ALMOST Acts 28 views - because it is based on the 28er's exact same oversimplifications :chuckle:

We FELLOW MADs differ with one another approach in these things - that is all that is.

This no more makes FELLOW MAD heir my enemy in my eyes any more than FELLOE MADs who do not subscribe to her approach and or its results, should be in her eyes.

Thus, my quip inspired by STP's quip.

Thus my quip: Pope heir :chuckle:

Because I find it amusing she has taken it upon herself to conclude she is somehow in a position to pronounce FELLOW MADs all the way back to O'Hair "enemies."

That is funny as heck...

Take a chill pill women :chuckle:
Yes, I know.
She doesn't care much for folks that like Bob Enyart either.
I like Bob Enyart.
But that's OK, she and I still share many of the same views.
And we don't have to be BFFs to do so.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
All salvation is in Christ and in that common. The word of truth, the gospel of your salvation is the same is that which Paul received (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:12-13 KJV). It is not the gospel of the kingdom as Paul could not be forgiven under it (Matthew 12:31-32 KJV).

It is impossible that Paul was saved under a different gospel to that which was established before Paul was saved.

No shift to another gospel was made even to this day.

LA
 

Danoh

New member
Hi and Heir has you in Rom 1:1-4 !!

Rom 1:1 says that Paul " HAVING BEEN SEPARATED " is in the Greek Perfect tense , passive Voice and a PARTICIPLE !!

This means that Paul was separated when Paul was saved !!

The Passive Voice means that God appointed him an apostles and to the God's Gospel !!

The Participle is the word HAVING , which always seem to end in " ING "

DAN P!!

You're actually making MY case NOT theirs :chuckle:

While you are at it; what voice do you see verse 7's "called to be" in?

Or do you see that as different from verse 1's "called to be" voice?

In my book; both are the same, by the way.

Thanks :)
 

Danoh

New member
It is impossible that Paul was saved under a different gospel to that which was established before Paul was saved.

No shift to another gospel was made even to this day.

LA

As within any school of thought (individuals within a same school will at times see some things differently) so within MAD.

The following is my understanding of this issue - other MADs may or may see some of these things differently...

Paul was not saveable prior to the gospel he was both saved under and then had committed unto him.

This here is WHY Paul was NOT saveable at that time...

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Resistence of the Spirit was the unpardonable sin that Israel was warned would not be forgive them neither in that age; nor the one to come.

Just as the Spirit through Stephen reiterated to Israel; that to go against the Law of Moses the Spirit was now asserting to Israel the Law had prophesied that Jesus would be their prophesied Christ, was to continue in the UNcircumcision of their fathers against Moses.

Read it again, here, below...

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

What did Paul himself later say about that?

Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

He says that in Romans 2, as he heads towards the following conclusion against both Jew and Gentile...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Continuing on that, he goes on to relate that...

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Recall the Spirit's Words thru Stephen.

And Paul's words as to this grave issue he and his nation faced...but for Romans 3:21's "BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law..."

Paul's descriptiom of his spiritual UNcircumcision before that...

Acts 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead? 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. 26:11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities. 26:12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Paul was in UNcircumcision spiritually.

Concluded under sin with his nation for his having blasphemed the Spirit.

In fact, their chief sinner against the LORD AND His Christ: for his having caused members of the Believing Remant of Israel to blaspheme the Spirit.

In other words, to recant their assertion that Jesus was the Christ or face Paul's wrath.

Paul was saved when God in His grace not only saved Paul in accordance with, but then commissioned him with - the gospel of the UNcircumcision.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Much more could be said of this uniquely Pauline distinction.
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
As within any school of thought (individuals within a same school will at times see some things differently) so within MAD.

The following is my understanding of this issue - other MADs may or may see some of these things differently...

Paul was not saveable prior to the gospel he was both saved under and then had committed unto him.

This here is WHY Paul was NOT saveable at that time...

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Resistence of the Spirit was the unpardonable sin that Israel was warned would not be forgive them neither in that age; nor the one to come.

Just as the Spirit through Stephen reiterated to Israel; that to go against the Law of Moses the Spirit was now asserting to Israel the Law had prophesied that Jesus would be their prophesied Christ, was to continue in the UNcircumcision of their fathers against Moses.

Read it again, here, below...

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

What did Paul himself later say about that?

Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

He says that in Romans 2, as he heads towards the following conclusion against both Jew and Gentile...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Continuing on that, he goes on to relate that...

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Recall the Spirit's Words thru Stephen.

And Paul's words as to this grave issue he and his nation faced...but for Romans 3:21's "BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law..."

Paul's descriptiom of his spiritual UNcircumcision before that...

Acts 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead? 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. 26:11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities. 26:12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Paul was in UNcircumcision spiritually.

Concluded under sin with his nation for his having blasphemed the Spirit.

In fact, their chief sinner against the LORD AND His Christ: for his having caused members of the Believing Remant of Israel to blaspheme the Spirit.

In other words, to recant their assertion that Jesus was the Christ or face Paul's wrath.

Paul was saved when God in His grace not only saved Paul in accordance with, but then commissioned him with - the gospel of the UNcircumcision.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Much more could be said of this uniquely Pauline distinction.

You are giving Saul the wrong classification.

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

LA
 

Danoh

New member
You are giving Saul the wrong classification.

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

LA

Lol - never mind that said mercy was AFTER...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Repeated in the very chapter you misread your notion into...

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Meaning, it's time, once again...for a :chuckle: at your obvious jump in too soon study methods :crackup:
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Lol - never mind that said mercy was AFTER...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Repeated in the very chapter you misread your notion into...

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Meaning, it's time, once again...for a :chuckle: at your obvious jump in too soon study methods :crackup:

Paul was forgiven because he was not one of those like Judas.

If he had not obeyed Christ after He was revealed to him, then he would have been like Judas.

LA
 

Right Divider

Body part
You are giving Saul the wrong classification.

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

LA
Cherry-picker extraordinaire!!!
 
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