I have no idea what the heck you're talking about!So why did you say that to me before?
Maybe if you spoke in more than ten syllable posts, the discussion would be more productive.
I have no idea what the heck you're talking about!So why did you say that to me before?
Well, those who were saved under the law, remained under it until their physical death but Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ, the first to be saved under the Gospel of Grace. God cut off Israel with the stoning of Stephen, converted Paul on the Damascus Road and sent him first to Israel and eventually to the Gentiles. Some years later, the twelve agreed with Paul that they would stay in Israel and minister to "The Circumcision" and he (Paul) would go to the "Uncircumcision" (i.e. the Gentiles). Thus, for a time, there were two groups. There were Jews saved under the Kingdom Gospel who followed Moses as they always had minus the potions of the Law which were fulfilled in Christ (i.e. the sacrificial system and related laws). These believers are who a large segment of the New Testament were written too and about (i.e. Hebrews - Revelation). The other group was made up of both Jews and Gentiles but has nothing to do with Israel's Kingdom and the members of this group are not members of the nation of Israel nor do any of Israel's promises apply to them. They instead are members of the Body of Christ and are hidden in Him, identified in Him. We are righteous in Him because He is righteous, not because of what we do but because of what He has already done. We are citizens of heaven and have a heavenly calling unlike Israel and the Jews who have their citizenship in the Nation of Israel and have an Earthly calling.
This is the doctrine you get when you pay attention to context (i.e. who is saying what to whom) and allow the text of scripture to mean what it plainly states.
Resting in Him,
Clete
And I would say neither. Because they are the two different sides of the same coin.
James says that your faith will produce and that's how we know you actually have faith.
Paul clearly says that the faith is the important piece of this. He is saying that he was not justified by works.
They cannot be in opposition.
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Then there are two gospels. What are their messages?Nope that most certainly is NOT what James says. He makes the exact OPPOSITE point that Paul makes using the same man as an example!
James states EXPLICITLY that you are saved BY WORKS!
Paul states EXPLICITLY that it is he "WHO DOES NOT WORK" but believes that is saved.
James 2: 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
They say opposite things. If your doctrine is correct, one of them is a liar. If mine is correct, both mean exactly what they seem to mean, they're simply talking to two different audiences.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Sorry, let me clarify before you post some snide and rude comment.
The ends that you discuss are not biblical. Where do you get those assumptions? Paul being the first of the Body? Two separate gospels? This is incredibly disturbing.
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Then there are two gospels. What are their messages?
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I have no idea what the heck you're talking about!
Maybe if you spoke in more than ten syllable posts, the discussion would be more productive.
What in the world? Where did you get all of that?
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If that were true, there would have been no need for Paul's ministry to begin with. Jesus already had twelve apostles which had both the great commission (which they didn't follow) and the Holy Spirit to guide them. Paul came on the seen because God changed what he was doing. Instead of sending Christ back to give Israel their kingdom, He instead cut Israel off because of their rejection of their King and turn instead to the Gentiles through Paul.
Treating people who say stupid things as though they haven't, tacitly endorses their stupidity.How do you get your put downs are the right thing to do?
You have to at least write enough to allow what you say to retain the context you intend. I have no idea what you're referring to when you say that I said that Jesus was a Jew to you. Of course He was a Jew! Who ever suggested otherwise and in what context? I cannot read your mind.I might not always write a lot of words, but what I do say has a lot of meaning.
No one is forcing you to read any of it! I write what I want. I try my best not to be a waste of time but if you feel like I am a waste of your time then there's a simple solution for you. Don't read my posts! It's no skin off my nose! There's a list of people as long as my arm that seem to really enjoy the things I write and seem to get a lot out of it, which is what keeps me here doing all this. If you're not in that group, how is that my problem? I don't solicit your approval nor do I need it. I have no doubt that we have at least that much in common.You write too much.
Who wants to spend so much time readying all that?
I believe these verses about the avenger of blood talk about someone having been killed unintentionally. There was no premeditation.Is this different from murder? I also don't know what a manslayer is.
What's not to follow?
Do you suppose I'm attempting to take you captive in some way or to deceive you?
The verse you site isn't a prohibition against philosophy per se! It couldn't be because it teaching you philosophy!
It's simply telling you to be on your guard against lies! Don't allow yourself to be tricked into believing things that are false by some sort of fancy intellectual foot work. Be smart, think and use Christ (i.e. God) as your standard of truth.
Okay now, seriously, this is your final chance with me. If you want to be intellectually challenged and think through your beliefs and see if they survive the process (they will if they're true) then you WILL directly respond to what I've said with something of substance. If you don't, I'll leave you to whatever the hell it is that you think you're doing here and you can waste someone else's time....
Would you or would you not agree with the following....
If God were to say that its just fine to murder your neighbor so long and he has made you really, really mad then that would not make murder right, it would mean that God is evil.
That's because right and wrong are not determined by fiat. God is NOT arbitrary. God is not good because He says so but because He does rightly. Right and wrong are not so because God said it, God said it because it is so.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Wow. That is nonsense. Paul tells us why Jesus sent him. It was to show that even people with grave sins could be forgiven---that is what Paul explains.
I don't put down Jesus, I put you down.
Again, you are dealing with hypotheticals, and you said so. I cannot agree to that. What God has said is true and God doesn't do anything contrary to His word.
And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." (Matthew 25:40)
Bah da bing!
I didn't suggest otherwise.
I think that perhaps its just an intelligence thing. There's nothing I said that is the slightest bit confusing or difficult to follow and yet you cannot seem to grasp it. I'll presume for your sake that it isn't that you're incapable, just willfully ignorant.
I won't waste any more time attempting to get willfully the blind to see.
:wave2:
The Twelve couldn't have sent that message?!
That's what your doctrine implies.
And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." (Matthew 25:40)
Bah da bing!