Understanding God’s election

Dougcho

Member
I have not swamped the OP with a lot of Scripture quotations,
but hopefully you will recall the NT verses which confirm the following …


Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
1 – Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve,
all humans are born with an inherited sin nature,
and are bent on sinning instead of following God (Romans 3:9-18).
Having a saving faith is against their very nature!
2 - All unsaved humans are captive prisoners of Satan,
and are bent on doing whatever he wants them to do (2 Timothy 2:26).
Jesus came to set the captives of Satan free (Luke 4:18).
Having a saving faith is against our enemy’s plans for them,
which, of course, is spending eternity with Satan and his demons in hell.
If the God-worshipping Lydia (Acts 16:14) needs God to give her the necessary
faith to believe in Jesus and the Gospel, surely everyone does also!
Similarly, the “anyones” who believe in Jesus in verses such as John 3:16
are the ones whom God has given saving faith!


Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 15:16).
Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …

“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!
God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.

“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9)
God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent …
… the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.
Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness
(1 John 1:7-9).

The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others

Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.

Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.

Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.
 
Last edited:

SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned
Sorry but no no no. God has no favourites.


Acts 10:34-35
"So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. "

Galatians 2:6
"And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me."

Deuteronomy 10:17
"For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe."

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. "

James 1:1-27
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings. Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him"

Romans 2: 10
"
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God."

Ephesians 6:9
"And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."


You have twisted the text to suit a narrative unfortunately. You are conflating God's use of certain people on this Earth to perform his Will/plan, with God's salvation for ALL humans. Which is pretty appalling.

Salvation is available to all, period. There are no "elect" or favourites in this matter. Jesus's death was FOR ALL. PERIOD.

However God's chooses certain people to perform specific works on Earth.

Hence John 15:16
"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

Note that it doesn't say "I have chosen you to be saved"

God has no favourites. None whatsoever. No-one is "chosen" to be saved as such for ALL have been chosen to be saved. We are all equal.
 

Dougcho

Member
“… no one knows who the Son is except the Father,
and who the Father is except the Son,
and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” (Luke 10:22)


Do you remember reading the NT verses that teach us …
-- God the Father reveals the Truth of the Gospel to whomever He chooses.
-- God the Father draws to Jesus whomever He chooses.
-- God the Son reveals the Father to whomever He chooses.


Salvation is absolutely and totally the work of God.
He even guarantee the elect that they will get to heaven
(many NT reference verses are available).
 

Right Divider

Body part
@Dougcho Your Calvinism is wrong and evil. It is anti-Biblical and will lead you to hell.

Your redefinition of terms is wrong and evil.

Elect does NOT means "chosen for salvation". It means "chosen for a purpose" and that "purpose" can be many things.

Isa 42:1 (AKJV/PCE)​
(42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.​

"My servant" here refers to the Lord Jesus Christ!

Isa 45:4 (AKJV/PCE)​
(45:4) For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.​

Here, ISRAEL is God's elect. Does that mean that 100% of the Israelite's will be saved? No, it does not.

You should leave this Christian site and go to a Calvinist site were you will feel at home.
 

Dougcho

Member
@Dougcho Your Calvinism is wrong and evil. It is anti-Biblical and will lead you to hell.
Your redefinition of terms is wrong and evil.
What do you think about Lydia's experience in Acts 16:14?
God had to intervene so she could believe in Jesus and the Gospel.
It seems logical that she has not been the only one to need the same help!
 

Right Divider

Body part
What do you think about Lydia's experience in Acts 16:14?
God had to intervene so she could believe in Jesus and the Gospel.
It seems logical that she has not been the only one to need the same help!
You responded to NOT A SINGLE THING that I posted.

I will not participate in your one sided monologue.

Again, you might feel more at home on a different website.
 

Derf

Well-known member
I have not swamped the OP with a lot of Scripture quotations,
but hopefully you will recall the NT verses which confirm the following …


Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
1 – Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve,
all humans are born with an inherited sin nature,
and are bent on sinning instead of following God (Romans 3:9-18).
Having a saving faith is against their very nature!
2 - All unsaved humans are captive prisoners of Satan,
and are bent on doing whatever he wants them to do (2 Timothy 2:26).
Jesus came to set the captives of Satan free (Luke 4:18).
Having a saving faith is against our enemy’s plans for them,
which, of course, is spending eternity with Satan and his demons in hell.
If the God-worshipping Lydia (Acts 16:14) needs God to give her the necessary
faith to believe in Jesus and the Gospel, surely everyone does also!
Similarly, the “anyones” who believe in Jesus in verses such as John 3:16
are the ones whom God has given saving faith!


Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 15:16).
Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …

“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!
God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.

“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9)
God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent …
… the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.
Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness
(1 John 1:7-9).

The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others

Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.

Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.

Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.
how do you know that you weren't chosen before the foundation of the world to reject the faith later in life and die and go to hell?
 

JudgeRightly

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OK, no need to call anyone "the elect"!
Paul mostly calls them the "chosen and called"
when he addresses the churches in several of his epistles.

Redefining words to fit your doctrine isn't how this works.
 

Dougcho

Member
God has no favourites. None whatsoever.
No-one is "chosen" to be saved as such for ALL have been chosen to be saved. We are all equal.
"The Lord opened her (Lydia's) heart to heed the things spoken by Paul." (Acts 16:14)
God opens the hearts of many people ... so they can believe!
Butski, sorry to have to tell you ... He doesn't open everyone's heart.
 

Dougcho

Member
how do you know that you weren't chosen before the foundation of the world to reject the faith later in life and die and go to hell?
IMO, nothing in Scripture even hints at this.
If you think there is, please show us.
 

Dougcho

Member
The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)

He was to be CALLED "Jesus" and "the Son of God".
He did NOT have these titles previous to being born.
Before the Incarnation, He was "the Word" in heaven.

And also, don't you believe that God the Holy Spirit
played the role of Jesus' "Father"?
Hence, He was called "the Son of God".

Please, forget your previous church dogma,
and just simply believe the Scriptures.
 

Dougcho

Member
No, my objection was your false definition of "the elect".
Romans 9 ...
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God
according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),


IMO, Paul is bringing forth various examples of election ... not just Rebecca's case.
IMO, it is obvious that election w/o regard to "nor having done any good or evil"
has been standard practice for God.
 

Dougcho

Member
"Elect" does not mean "called."
It just means "chosen to accomplish a purpose."
OK, I'll refer to them as Paul does when
addressing the churches: "the called and chosen".
BTW, surely they are chosen before they are called.
So, I don't know why Paul reverses the two.
 

JudgeRightly

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Romans 9 ...
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God
according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),

From the very text Paul was quoting:

And the Lord said to her:“Two nations are in your womb,Two peoples shall be separated from your body;One people shall be stronger than the other,And the older shall serve the younger.”

IMO, Paul is bringing forth various examples of election ... not just Rebecca's case.
IMO, it is obvious that election w/o regard to "nor having done any good or evil"
has been standard practice for God.

Election of one nation over another, to accomplish a purpose, that being, to go to all the world to teach them about God.

Not election of individuals to salvation.
 

JudgeRightly

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OK, I'll refer to them as Paul does when addressing the churches: "the called and chosen".

The order is important.

One is called, then if he accepts the calling, he is chosen.

If he doesn't accept the calling, then he cannot be chosen.

BTW, surely they are chosen before they are called.

No, you can't assume that.

That would be eisegesis, not exegesis.

Don't read your beliefs into the text.

Let the text say what it says, and believe that.

So, I don't know why Paul reverses the two.

He didn't.

You have to come to the text with a priori beliefs to say that he did.
 

Dougcho

Member
The order is important.
One is called, then if he accepts the calling, he is chosen.
If he doesn't accept the calling, then he cannot be chosen.
OK, you are correct ... my mistake.

A person can be given the faith to believe,
like Lydia was, and then refuse to believe,
e.g. because he/she prefers to live in his/her sin.
 
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