ECT Understand the Fall of Adam according to Covenant

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Those who would oppose the teachings of “Original Sin” and the legal imputation of the guilt of that sin caused by the disobedience and fall of Adam, fail to realize God always deals with man according to Covenant:

“. . The doctrine of imputation, as generally held by Calvinistic divines, is, that it brings in another species of oneness or identity as subsisting between Adam and his posterity; that of federal representation or covenant headship; i.e.the doctrine that God made a covenant with Adam and that in the covenant [Adam] represented his posterity; the covenant being made not only for himself, but for them, including in its provisions them as well as himself, so that while there was no actual participation by them in the moral culpability or blameworthiness of his sin, they (incurred) in consequence of [Adam’s] failure to fulfill the covenant engagement . . guilt in the sense of legal answerableness, to this effect that God, on the ground of the covenant, regarded and treated them as if they had themselves been guilty of the sin whereby the covenant was broken; and in that in this way they became involved in all the natural and penal consequences which Adam brought upon himself by his first sin.”
William Cunningham, “Historical Theology” Volume I

In like manner, a New Covenant was made between God and Jesus Christ, who acted as federal representative and head of His church; making His spiritual posterity beneficiaries of His righteous obedience and performance of this covenant, unto death, and
ratifying the covenant in time with His blood. As consequence of Christ perfectly keeping covenant with God under the Law, the necessary legal grounds were established for the justification of all souls represented by Christ on the cross and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to their account.

Dispensationalism, Pelagianism, Socinianism, Arminianism, Open Theism, etc. fail to properly teach and reveal both the Covenant of Works and the New Covenant that provides believers with a full and biblical Gospel message and sound understanding of the depths of Godly grace and Redemption.
 

DAN P

New member
Those who would oppose the teachings of “Original Sin” and the legal imputation of the guilt of that sin caused by the disobedience and fall of Adam, fail to realize God always deals with man according to Covenant:

“. . The doctrine of imputation, as generally held by Calvinistic divines, is, that it brings in another species of oneness or identity as subsisting between Adam and his posterity; that of federal representation or covenant headship; i.e.the doctrine that God made a covenant with Adam and that in the covenant [Adam] represented his posterity; the covenant being made not only for himself, but for them, including in its provisions them as well as himself, so that while there was no actual participation by them in the moral culpability or blameworthiness of his sin, they (incurred) in consequence of [Adam’s] failure to fulfill the covenant engagement . . guilt in the sense of legal answerableness, to this effect that God, on the ground of the covenant, regarded and treated them as if they had themselves been guilty of the sin whereby the covenant was broken; and in that in this way they became involved in all the natural and penal consequences which Adam brought upon himself by his first sin.”
William Cunningham, “Historical Theology” Volume I

In like manner, a New Covenant was made between God and Jesus Christ, who acted as federal representative and head of His church; making His spiritual posterity beneficiaries of His righteous obedience and performance of this covenant, unto death, and
ratifying the covenant in time with His blood. As consequence of Christ perfectly keeping covenant with God under the Law, the necessary legal grounds were established for the justification of all souls represented by Christ on the cross and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to their account.

Dispensationalism, Pelagianism, Socinianism, Arminianism, Open Theism, etc. fail to properly teach and reveal both the Covenant of Works and the New Covenant that provides believers with a full and biblical Gospel message and sound understanding of the depths of Godly grace and Redemption.


Hi and fill me in , where in Gen 2 , is the word COVENANT used ?

dan p
 

DAN P

New member
You must be either Dispensationalist, Pelgian, Socinian, Arminian, or OT . . right?



Hi and I am Acts 9:6 dispensationalist !!

I see only these in the bible !!

#1 The Abrahamic Covenant

#2 Paleestinian Covenant

#3 The Davidic Covenant

#4 The New Covenant

DIATHEKE is a translitered word that has many meanings , LIKE :

#1, Agreement

#2, A comming together

#3, A Will

#4 Compact

They are CONDITIONAL and Un-conditional !!

The only o ne that is CONDITIONAL is the Old Covenant !!

So , give A verse for the one in Genesis ??

dan p
 

DAN P

New member
Do you understand that God telling Adam to NOT eat of the tree became a law to Adam ? When Adam disobeyed God the result was immediate and applied to "ALL" of Adam's progeny as in ADAM all die.

Hi and the word COVENANT / DIATHEKE is not used in Gen 2 ??

So , tell us , how Adam was saved ?

How can anyone be saved by a COVENANT of Grace , today ?

Where is it found ??

dan p
 

1Mind1Spirit

BANNED
Banned
They are CONDITIONAL and Un-conditional !!

The only o ne that is CONDITIONAL is the Old Covenant !!

Funny I don't see it on your list.


Hi and I am Acts 9:6 dispensationalist !!

I see only these in the bible !!

#1 The Abrahamic Covenant

#2 Paleestinian Covenant

#3 The Davidic Covenant

#4 The New Covenant

DIATHEKE is a translitered word that has many meanings , LIKE :

#1, Agreement

#2, A comming together

#3, A Will

#4 Compact



dan p

:plain:
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Hi and I am Acts 9:6 dispensationalist !!

I see only these in the bible !!

#1 The Abrahamic Covenant

#2 Paleestinian Covenant

#3 The Davidic Covenant


#4 The New Covenant

All of these are included under either the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Two major covenants between God and mankind. The first being the "Covenant of Works (Law)" and the second being the "Covenant of Grace (Jesus Christ)."

DIATHEKE is a translitered word that has many meanings , LIKE :

#1, Agreement

#2, A comming together

#3, A Will

#4 Compact

They are CONDITIONAL and Un-conditional !!

The only o ne that is CONDITIONAL is the Old Covenant !!

Agreed.

So , give A verse for the one in Genesis ??

dan p

Do you believe in the Trinity? Can you provide a verse where the word "Trinity" is used?

The titles for the two major covenants are theological terms, just as Trinity is a theological term, to summarize Truth revealed throughout the Bible.

The Covenant of Works (Law) was established by God upon creation of Mankind, when God providentially placed A&E in the garden of Eden. The contract was that Adam would have dominion over caring for the garden and the animals, and reproduce to populate all the earth. All the trees in the garden were for A&E's enjoyment and sustenance. One tree was forbidden for food.

The condition of this covenant was obedience, in order to find everlasting life.

Disobedience would bring death. Genesis 2:15-17

With these words, Adam was put under obligation to the will and Law of God. Adam broke the conditions of the covenant and brought sin and death into the world which affected all his progeny, who would be born under this same Covenant of Works (Law) and also suffer death for their sins.

The remedy of grace was quickly promised to Eve, however, when God promised from her "seed" a Savior would be born to crush the head of Satan who had deceived. Genesis 3:15 This is the first revelation of the New Covenant of Grace (Jesus Christ), which is the foundation of the Gospel message proclaimed throughout history. The New Covenant is unconditional grace; performed solely and perfectly by the Incarnate Christ. Hebrews 9:15
 

dodge

New member
Hi and the word COVENANT / DIATHEKE is not used in Gen 2 ??

So , tell us , how Adam was saved ?

How can anyone be saved by a COVENANT of Grace , today ?

Where is it found ??

dan p

I can show you in scripture where blood was shed which applied to Adam and Eve and the blood was shed by God.

3:21
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
As in without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. God had that covered.


Why do you purposely ignore scripture and confuse yourself ?

When God told Adam NOT TO EAT from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that was a covenant God established between Himself and Adam.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Hi and fill me in , where in Gen 2 , is the word COVENANT used ?

dan p
You must be either Dispensationalist, Pelgian, Socinian, Arminian, or OT . . right?
No matter which he is, it will not change the fact of whether the word COVENANT is used in Gen 2.
Your reply to his question does not address the question he asked.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I can show you in scripture where blood was shed which applied to Adam and Eve and the blood was shed by God.

3:21
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
As in without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. God had that covered.


Why do you purposely ignore scripture and confuse yourself ?
No blood is mentioned at all in the story of GOD covering Adam and Eve with skins.
You are assuming GOD killed an animal and skinned it to cover them.
A live animal did not have to exist for GOD to be able to cover them with skins.
GOD could have formed the skins from anything He chose to, or from nothing at all.
Just as GOD can form children of Abraham from stones. Matt 3:9 and Luke 19:40
Nothing had to be killed and skinned for GOD to cover them, and there is certainly no mention of an animal being killed and skinned, or any blood mentioned at all in the story of Adam and Eve being covered by GOD.
You are inserting things that those scriptures do not say.
Just let the scriptures speak for themselves without you adding your assumptions to it.
 

dodge

New member
No blood is mentioned at all in the story of GOD covering Adam and Eve with skins.
You are assuming GOD killed an animal and skinned it to cover them.
A live animal did not have to exist for GOD to be able to cover them with skins.
GOD could have formed the skins from anything He chose to, or from nothing at all.
Just as GOD can form children of Abraham from stones. Matt 3:9 and Luke 19:40
Nothing had to be killed and skinned for GOD to cover them, and there is certainly no mention of an animal being killed and skinned, or any blood mentioned at all in the story of Adam and Eve being covered by GOD.
You are inserting things that those scriptures do not say.
Just let the scriptures speak for themselves without you adding your assumptions to it.

I assume nothing but I do accept what is given in scripture.

The animals could not have their skins removed without bleeding and dying. You ignore the obvious! Why ?

The blood is there you sadly cannot receive that truth.Just as when Cain and Able brought their offerings to God in the process of time. Cain brought veggies and his offering was rejected by God. Able brought a prepared Lamb. Blood was shed and Able's offering was accepted by God. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. The Lamb of God ws given in type from the very beginning and you stunt your understanding and growth in God by denying the "obvious", but then again one cannot see these things with PHYSICAL eyes.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
As in without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. God had that covered.

Yes, by the time when they had children they were spiritually alive. And all of their descendants were made in his likeness, being spiritually alive.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Yes, by the time when they had children they were spiritually alive. And all of their descendants were made in his likeness, being spiritually alive.

No, Jerry,

Adam's children were all born sinful for 2 reasons:

Adam's sin remained because the skins only covered them up. This is the TEMPORAL purpose of atonement. The blood of animals never eternally redeemed anyone.

If either A or E were forgiven, it would have to be because of faith and God's grace in the new covenant promise of the Savior. Genesis 3:15

And even if Adam was forgiven his original sin at this point in time, he would not produce "forgiven" children. No such thing is ever taught in Scripture!
 

dodge

New member
No blood is mentioned at all in the story of GOD covering Adam and Eve with skins.
You are assuming GOD killed an animal and skinned it to cover them.
A live animal did not have to exist for GOD to be able to cover them with skins.
GOD could have formed the skins from anything He chose to, or from nothing at all.
Just as GOD can form children of Abraham from stones. Matt 3:9 and Luke 19:40
Nothing had to be killed and skinned for GOD to cover them, and there is certainly no mention of an animal being killed and skinned, or any blood mentioned at all in the story of Adam and Eve being covered by GOD.
You are inserting things that those scriptures do not say.
Just let the scriptures speak for themselves without you adding your assumptions to it.

I inserted nothing I just don't throw my brain away to try to make a point.

FACT: you cannot take an animals skin without that animal bleeding and dying.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
WRONG as in Adam all die !

Yes, and "in Christ" all are made alive. However, no one is identified with Christ until they do something. And no one is "in Adam" until they sin. So yes, all those in Adam are there because of their own sin and they die spiritually as a result of their own sin.

If that were true Adam and Eve would have been still running around naked after their disobedience,and they are clothed and they were not before their fall.

Do you think that by the time the LORD clothed them they remained spiritually dead?
 

dodge

New member
Yes, and "in Christ" all are made alive. However, no one is identified with Christ until they do something. And no one is "in Adam" until they sin. So yes, all those in Adam are there because of their own sin and they die spiritually as a result of their own sin.



Do you think that by the time the LORD clothed them they remained spiritually dead?

If you are asking me if after the Lord clothed them with animal skins do I believe at that point they were spiritually dead the answer would be no ! Their disobedience had lasting consequences though.

Their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked.
They were ashamed of their nakedness where before they were not.
Women would bear children with pain.
Women would be under he authority of man.
They were expelled from the garden.
They were denied access to the tree of life.
Instead of God preparing their food they had to prepare their own.
Adam passed death onto his progeny.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
If you are asking me if after the Lord clothed them with animal skins do I believe at that point they were spiritually dead the answer would be no !

So by the time they had children they were spiritually alive. So when all of their descendants were made after the likeness of Adam they were made spiritually alive.
 

dodge

New member
So by the time they had children they were spiritually alive. So when all of their descendants were made after the likeness of Adam they were made spiritually alive.

Wrong ! One of the consequences of Adam's disobedience was their children would be born with a sin nature that they ,Adam and Eve, were not created with.

Eph 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
 
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