ECT Two Bodies of Believers in the NT

[Interplanner]

Acts 1 clearly shuts down that topic; the expression is in the category of "it is none of your business" which should cause YOU personally to state why you make it your business. The rest of the book of Acts is perfectly clear that there is no theocracy coming, that it is all fulfilled in the resurrection of Christ (Acts 2, 3 and 13's sermons are in formidable harmony) and finally that what Israel keeps seeking at its temple is ALREADY here in Christ and his, ch 26. Someone is not bothering to read the material!

(Sorry I'm not seeing the quote link on time; this is about post #136).


It is perfectly clear that a future theocracy is not in Israel's future. There is nothing about it in the NT. It is not to be confused with what the church became which is the huge ingathering of the nations in Isaianic scale. That is what happened historically, but it was not a theocracy. Rom 11 is not about a theocracy. 2 Pet 3 does not mention one. Etc etc etc.

There is no truth to saying it is all through there but I twist it. Show anything you want about there being a 2P2P return to theocracy. There is no theologicaly "need" for it to happen, that's why. That says more than stringing proof-text phrasing together.

 

[heir]

It has nothing to do with imagining several gospels, because the one gospel is mentioned right there in v8: that his resurrection for our justification is what fulfills the Davidic descendancy.

Again, Paul defined the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation in Ephesians 1:13 KJV. There's no need to rightly divide anything if there's only one gospel in the Bible. And since you brought up 2 Timothy 2:8 KJV, it's interesting to note too that it is according to Paul's gospel that Christ was raised again for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV) not to sit on David's throne like Peter preached in Acts 2:30 KJV! Stop rebelling against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There's no need to rightly divide anything if there's only one gospel in the Bible.

:BRAVO:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Let me just say right off the bat that this is not a thread about two bodies of Christ as there is, but one Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:4 KJV). This thread is about two bodies of believers in the so called NT.

One is a royal priesthood, an holy nation (1 Peter 2:9 KJV) made up of kings and priests /from the 12 Tribes that James wrote to (James 1:1 KJV) who will become that holy nation that Peter talked about, to whom Hebrews is written and to whom John wrote 1, 2, 3 John and Revelation (Revelation 1:6 KJV, Revelation 5:10 KJV). The doctrine of Peter, James and John has to do with Christ's second coming/ His earthly rule and reign. There are Gentiles wo inherit this kingdom (the kingdom of heaven)(Matthew 25:34 KJV), but they are there as a result of their blessing Israel during the Great Tribulation (Matthew 25:31-46 KJV).

None of the above describes the one Body, the church, which is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV), nor our gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), standing (Romans 4:25 KJV,1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV, Galatians 2:16 KJV, Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV, Colossians 2:10-13 KJV), position (Colossians 3:11 KJV) or inheritance (Ephesians 2:6 KJV, Philippians 3:20-21 KJV, Colossians 3:1-2 KJV).

It's your job to figure out which one you belong to and start rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) instead of following the religious system that has been confusing and mixing it up from the getgo!

Amen Sister. Amen.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It has nothing to do with imagining several gospels, because the one gospel is mentioned right there in v8: that his resurrection for our justification is what fulfills the Davidic descendancy. See Acts 13's sermon for details on that. Nothing has fallen flat in the least.

(Sorry I'm not used to the new format and missed the quote link; this is in response to two opposting posts back).

There was two messages going out back then. The Grace Gospel was preached by the Apostle Paul to the Gentiles and Peter and the rest preached the Kingdom message to the Jews. Today, in this Dispensation of Grace, there is only one message (Gospel) and that is, the Grace Gospel. (Paul's Gospel) It includes both Jew and Gentile alike.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

BTW, your posts are a joke. You show your ignorance every time you open your mouth.

I'm in total agreement.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Paul's gospel was primarily to those of the Jewish faith to whom Paul explained that salvation is by grace and is not attainable through the keeping of the law.

Paul's "Grace message" was preached to the Gentiles. You're a wee bit confused.

 

[Right Divider]

Acts 1 clearly shuts down that topic; the expression is in the category of "it is none of your business" which should cause YOU personally to state why you make it your business. The rest of the book of Acts is perfectly clear that there is no theocracy coming, that it is all fulfilled in the resurrection of Christ (Acts 2, 3 and 13's sermons are in formidable harmony) and finally that what Israel keeps seeking at its temple is ALREADY here in Christ and his, ch 26. Someone is not bothering to read the material!

(Sorry I'm not seeing the quote link on time; this is about post #136).

It is perfectly clear that a future theocracy is not in Israel's future. There is nothing about it in the NT. It is not to be confused with what the church became which is the huge ingathering of the nations in Isaianic scale. That is what happened historically, but it was not a theocracy. Rom 11 is not about a theocracy. 2 Pet 3 does not mention one. Etc etc etc.

There is no truth to saying it is all through there but I twist it. Show anything you want about there being a 2P2P return to theocracy. There is no theologicaly "need" for it to happen, that's why. That says more than stringing proof-text phrasing together.

I noticed, once again, that you are more than willing to give us tons of YOUR OPINION. I'm not interested in YOUR OPINION.

When the apostles asked the Lord Jesus Christ if NOW was the time of the RESTORATION of the kingdom TO ISRAEL. He did NOT tell them that "it's none of your business". He told the that it was not THEIRS to know the TIMES or the SEASONS. This makes it clear that the ONLY issue was TIMING and NOT that the kingdom had been cancelled.

The apostle had been taught by the RISEN LORD:

Act 1:3 KJV To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:​

They understood WHAT the Lord Jesus taught them about the KINGDOM. That is WHY they asked the question.

Dan 7:13-14 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. (14) And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.​

Your "theory" is bogus and contradicts scripture.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There was two messages going out back then.

Indeed. Denial of it ultimately leads to religious insanity.

 

[Interplanner]

I noticed, once again, that you are more than willing to give us tons of YOUR OPINION. I'm not interested in YOUR OPINION.

When the apostles asked the Lord Jesus Christ if NOW was the time of the RESTORATION of the kingdom TO ISRAEL. He did NOT tell them that "it's none of your business". He told the that it was not THEIRS to know the TIMES or the SEASONS. This makes it clear that the ONLY issue was TIMING and NOT that the kingdom had been cancelled.

The apostle had been taught by the RISEN LORD:

Act 1:3 KJV To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:​

They understood WHAT the Lord Jesus taught them about the KINGDOM. That is WHY they asked the question.

Dan 7:13-14 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. (14) And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.​

Your "theory" is bogus and contradicts scripture.

"It is not for you to know" = it is none of your business. I found that in lexicons etc. But more to the point, it never comes up in Acts again; they learned their lesson. It is not in Acts 13 or 26 which set a trajectory for the meaning of the apostle about Israel.

 

[Interplanner]

I noticed, once again, that you are more than willing to give us tons of YOUR OPINION. I'm not interested in YOUR OPINION.

When the apostles asked the Lord Jesus Christ if NOW was the time of the RESTORATION of the kingdom TO ISRAEL. He did NOT tell them that "it's none of your business". He told the that it was not THEIRS to know the TIMES or the SEASONS. This makes it clear that the ONLY issue was TIMING and NOT that the kingdom had been cancelled.

The apostle had been taught by the RISEN LORD:

Act 1:3 KJV To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:​

They understood WHAT the Lord Jesus taught them about the KINGDOM. That is WHY they asked the question.

Dan 7:13-14 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. (14) And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.​

Your "theory" is bogus and contradicts scripture.

You're right about the kingdom. That's because it came and was there. You're right that both parties were referring to the times and seasons, and that's over with. Because the kingdom had come and was there and ongoing.

 

[Interplanner]

I noticed, once again, that you are more than willing to give us tons of YOUR OPINION. I'm not interested in YOUR OPINION.

When the apostles asked the Lord Jesus Christ if NOW was the time of the RESTORATION of the kingdom TO ISRAEL. He did NOT tell them that "it's none of your business". He told the that it was not THEIRS to know the TIMES or the SEASONS. This makes it clear that the ONLY issue was TIMING and NOT that the kingdom had been cancelled.

The apostle had been taught by the RISEN LORD:

Act 1:3 KJV To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:​

They understood WHAT the Lord Jesus taught them about the KINGDOM. That is WHY they asked the question.

Dan 7:13-14 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. (14) And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.​

Your "theory" is bogus and contradicts scripture.

You're right about the eternity of the kingdom; that is why it cannot be a theocracy in Israel. It will be universal and will be the NHNE. All I'm saying is that you have packed all the terms in the OT with 2P2P which is not in the Bible. Get rid of them and it makes perfect and simple sense.

 

[Interplanner]

Paul's gospel was primarily to those of the Jewish faith to whom Paul explained that salvation is by grace and is not attainable through the keeping of the law.

Paul's "Grace message" was preached to the Gentiles. You're a wee bit confused.

Not. Acts 13. Same message to all mankind.

 

[Right Divider]

"It is not for you to know" = it is none of your business. I found that in lexicons etc. But more to the point, it never comes up in Acts again; they learned their lesson. It is not in Acts 13 or 26 which set a trajectory for the meaning of the apostle about Israel.

It's people like you that are dangerous. You CHOP sentences into PIECES in your attempt to CHANGE the meaning.

Act 1:6-8 KJV When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? (7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. (8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
​

See... the Bible says something... but you try to CHOP a little piece off to change the meaning. The "It is not for you to know" is QUALIFIED by the remainder of the SENTENCE.

You're just another dishonest perverter of the scripture.

 

[Danoh]

"It is not for you to know" = it is none of your business. I found that in lexicons etc. But more to the point, it never comes up in Acts again; they learned their lesson. It is not in Acts 13 or 26 which set a trajectory for the meaning of the apostle about Israel.

"It is not for you to know" = it is none of your business. I found that in lexicons etc. But more to the point, it never comes up in Acts again; they learned their lesson. It is not in Acts 13 or 26 which set a trajectory for the meaning of the apostle about Israel.

You're still off.

Even if He was telling them it was none of their business, as you assert, He was still referring to "...the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" Acts 1:7

While the very next verse reveals that His intended sense was that of that timing He had mentioned to them in Matthew 10.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Later, in Acts 1, we will read, concerning this timing issue...

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

What's going on in all this is "the mystery of God" concerning Israel's last days that Daniel wrote about in greater detail throughout Daniel, and that he mentions in Dan. 2:28, 29, 47, and that John mentions again in Rev. 10:7.

The timing of said times and seasons is sealed "the times of the Gentiles" Luke 21:24, as a political power, Luke 22:25; Dan. 2:44, continuing on to this very day.

Lol, I know; its not in your books.

 

[Interplanner]

You're still off.

Even if He was telling them it was none of their business, as you assert, He was still referring to "...the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" Acts 1:7

While the very next verse reveals that His intended sense was that of that timing He had mentioned to them in Matthew 10.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Later, in Acts 1, we will read, concerning this timing issue...

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

What's going on in all this is "the mystery of God" concerning Israel's last days that Daniel wrote about in greater detail throughout Daniel, and that he mentions in Dan. 2:28, 28, 47, and that John mentions again in Rev. 10:7.

The timing of said times and seasons is sealed "the times of the Gentiles" Luke 21:24, as a political power, Luke 22:25; Dan. 2:44, continuing on to this very day.

Lol, I know; its not in your books.

You do realize the Mt 10 material is for the 70 missionaries right? Before they finished, yes, the Son of man came because he was there.

The Lk 22 quote is irrelevant proof-texting. It is simply a general comment on the MO of secular powers. Obviously his kingdom and leaders would act differently. That is the only point of it.

The 'times of the Gentiles' was already a doctrine in Judaism which would happen when Messiah came because he had an offer of blessing to all nations, as they knew from Abraham if not Gen 3. The problem was they thought it was to be realized through the Law. This is why the grammar of Eph 3 emphasizes that the promises and membership are fulfilled to the nations IN THE GOSPEL. That's 'in the Gospel' not 'through the Law' in Paul's kinds of expressions. Judaism in Christ's time did produce missionaries, and Christ blasted them; Mt 23. They even tried such shenanigans as Col 2 with people who claimed to have heard the same angels who delivered the Law to Moses in a neo-Judaism for the 1st century.

Christ's missionaries were instead like Paul: to teach Christ alone, that Christ's resurrection was proof of justification from sins, which could not be obtained through the Law (stated that way in a synagogue). And nothing else for Israel per se as a theocracy.

 

[Right Divider]

You do realize the Mt 10 material is for the 70 missionaries right? Before they finished, yes, the Son of man came because he was there.

How do you define "missionaries"? How do you count 12 as 70?

Mat 10:5-6 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

It looks like the instructions in Matt. 10:5-6 KJV was to twelve and had a VERY limited geographical scope.

At the END of this passage we read:

Mat 11:1 KJV And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.​

Once again we see that you have problems with the FACTS.

 

[Interplanner]

How do you define "missionaries"? How do you count 12 as 70?

Mat 10:5-6 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

It looks like the instructions in Matt. 10:5-6 KJV was to twelve and had a VERY limited geographical scope.

At the END of this passage we read:

Mat 11:1 KJV And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.​

Once again we see that you have problems with the FACTS.

You're right on that detail, I meant Lk 10. I have no problem with facts. 2P2P is all opinion, btw.

 

[Interplanner]

How do you define "missionaries"? How do you count 12 as 70?

Mat 10:5-6 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

It looks like the instructions in Matt. 10:5-6 KJV was to twelve and had a VERY limited geographical scope.

At the END of this passage we read:

Mat 11:1 KJV And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.​

Once again we see that you have problems with the FACTS.

Missionaries are those with a mission. The 72 and then all those who heard the day of Pentecost. The thing about the Gospel since the launch is that it is an objective message and if the crucial item is expressed, no matter how nor by whom, the mission is moving forward.

 

[Right Divider]

Missionaries are those with a mission. The 72 and then all those who heard the day of Pentecost. The thing about the Gospel since the launch is that it is an objective message and if the crucial item is expressed, no matter how nor by whom, the mission is moving forward.

More of your opinion.

The "mission" that the Lord Jesus Christ gave them has some specifics that you and most of "Christendom" completely ignore. Like the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

Because you don't believe the numerous facts relating to THAT mission, come up will all kinds of nonsense. And then you completely ignore the distinct differences in Paul's ministry.