Trump sez: Transgenders B gone!

[JudgeRightly]

At what point in time did any of them ever condemn or wish punishment on others?

Haven't you read Matthew 23, Mark 12, Luke 11, and Luke 20?

Haven't you read John 3:18?

You take these verses and think that it gives you passage to be sitting around casually talking about putting people to death or prosecuting them for things you find go against your religiosity, which is just abusing the scriptures.

While you have not yet provided one scripture to support your beliefs, I have with each post of mine provided multiple verses and passages to support my position.

Sounds like you're one of those "Nicer than God" Christians, who's favorite verse is "don't judge, lest ye be judged," the favorite verse of Hillary, Hollywood, the homosexuals, the humanists, and hypocrites the world around.

Except the Bible doesn't say to not judge at all. It says don't judge like a hypocrite, judging people for doing something that you are doing.

And right NOW, you're judging me and Doser for judging rightly, which makes you a hypocrite.

 

[Crucifer]

Haven't you read Matthew 23, Mark 12, Luke 11, and Luke 20?

Haven't you read John 3:18?



While you have not yet provided one scripture to support your beliefs, I have with each post of mine provided multiple verses and passages to support my position.

Sounds like you're one of those "Nicer than God" Christians, who's favorite verse is "don't judge, lest ye be judged," the favorite verse of Hillary, Hollywood, the homosexuals, the humanists, and hypocrites the world around.

Except the Bible doesn't say to not judge at all. It says don't judge like a hypocrite, judging people for doing something that you are doing.

And right NOW, you're judging me and Doser for judging rightly, which makes you a hypocrite.

>Judging and prosecuting are two different things
>Vain judgement is not righteous judgement- if your judgement reaps nothing, it is simply hate and hubris
>I don't really need to provide scripture for what should be self-evident to any Christian. The verses you've posted basically just aren't all that relevant.

 

[JudgeRightly]

At what point in time did any of them ever condemn or wish punishment on others?
You take these verses and think that it gives you passage to be sitting around casually talking about putting people to death or prosecuting them for things you find go against your religiosity, which is just abusing the scriptures.

Here's more verses from Jesus and Paul, condemning people:

But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians2:15-16&version=NKJV

Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. - Romans 3:31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:31&version=NKJV

Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time?“Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? - Luke 12:56-57 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke12:56-57&version=NKJV

“Judge not, that you be not judged.For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. - Matthew 7:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7:1-5&version=NKJV

Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. - Romans 12:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans12:9&version=NKJV

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.Professing to be wise, they became fools,and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. - Romans 1:18-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1:18-32&version=NKJV

But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:8-11&version=NKJV

Do I need to post more? Or is that enough to convince you?

 

[JudgeRightly]

>Judging and prosecuting are two different things

Your point?

>Vain judgement is not righteous judgement- if your judgement reaps nothing, it is simply hate and hubris

Righteous judgment may or may not result in any change in behavior.

But it will reap rewards in heaven, as God said:

So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah55:11&version=NKJV

>I don't really need to provide scripture

Yes. You do.

You are on a Christian forum board.

You are discussing what the Bible says.

You are promoting your beliefs about what scripture says.

That means youneed to provide the scripture that supports your beliefs.

Or have you never heard the term, "onus probandi"?

for what should be self-evident to any Christian.

Appeal to self evidence is a logical fallacy, especially when discussing ideas.

The things you are promoting are NOT self-evident, or else we wouldn't be discussing them.

The verses you've posted basically just aren't all that relevant.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

 

[Crucifer]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Neither does spamming a bunch of verses you think are relevant and not providing any real correlation or context. You're basically just trying to dig up ways to justify an unneeded judging of others. Homosexuality continues, abortion continues, divorce continues, and your spoken judgements don't do anything but make things even more miserable than they already are.

 

[ok doser]

For one, it's hypocrisy. Did Jesus or his apostles dabble at all into punishing others? It's virtually a non-existent thing in the New Testament, there is never once a calling to support prosecution of anybody.

even if so, how do you figure that makes it hypocrisy? :freak:

 

[ok doser]

You're basically just trying to dig up ways to justify an unneeded judging of others.

i'm comfortable judging howells and vaisey as evil people that deserve the death penalty

are you?

 

[Crucifer]

i'm comfortable judging howells and vaisey as evil people that deserve the death penalty

They're already being judged, and have been judged. Why are you so compelled to speak further and beyond- you're just acting like any other person no matter what they're worldview is. Anyone can condemn a child molester, it's the easiest, cheapest thing to throw some self-prescribed holiness at.
Did it make a difference?
No.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Neither does spamming a bunch of verses

Which are completely relevant to the topic.

If you think otherwise, please show us how they are not relevant by using scripture.

you think

What I think has nothing to do with whether the Bible says something is right or wrong.

are relevant and not providing any real correlation or context.

The context is the conversation.

Or are you not paying attention.

I'm providing verses and passages that deal with your beliefs.

If you think that they are taken out of context, then you should show that I am doing so by providing the surrounding passages and pointing out where I went wrong.

You're basically just trying

Trying?

Seems like I'm succeeding at providing what God says.

You haven't even given God the courtesy of finding out what He says before dismissing it out of hand.

to dig up ways to justify an unneeded judging of others.

"Unneeded?"

While...

....Homosexuality continues, abortion continues, divorce continues,

And you say that judging isn't needed?

Are you stupid?

and your spoken judgements don't do anything

Sure they do. They point out what is good and what is wicked.

but make things even more miserable than they already are.

For the wicked, sure.

I don't want the wicked to be wicked in peace.

 

[JudgeRightly]

They're already being judged, and have been judged. Why are you so compelled to speak further and beyond- you're just acting like any other person no matter what they're worldview is. Anyone can condemn a child molester, it's the easiest, cheapest thing to throw some self-prescribed holiness at.
Did it make a difference?
No.

Sure, they've been judged.

But was their punishment JUST?

According to God, no.

 

[Crucifer]

Sure, they've been judged.

But was their punishment JUST?

According to God, no.

You mean according to the Old Law, in which you ought to be putting a lot more people to death than just some kidnappers.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You mean according to the Old Law,

I usually mean what I say.

And in this case, I meant what I said.

According to God, the above criminals were not punished justly.

Again, you seem to dismiss what God says about a matter before hearing what He has to say about it. You should give him the courtesy of doing so.

in which you ought to be putting a lot more people to death than just some kidnappers.

Crucifer, here's a pop quiz for you.

1) Do you think that prison is a good form of punishment for criminals? if so, why?

2) What would you suggest as an appropriate punishment for:

Murder
Kidnapping
Deadly negligence
Capital perjury
Adultery
Sodomy
Bestiality
Incest with:
-Mother
-Daughter in law
-Mother in law
-Sister
-Aunt
-Sister in law
Rape
Human Sacrifice
Manslaughter during crime
Abortion
Theft where goods are:
-Recovered
-Sold
-Destroyed
-Irreplaceable
-Sentimental
-Insignificant
-surrendered
Accidental destruction of property
Common negligence
Destroy property
Temporary injury
Litigated dispute
Assault
Permanent injury

 

[ok doser]

You're basically just trying to dig up ways to justify an unneeded judging of others.

i'm comfortable judging howells and vaisey as evil people that deserve the death penalty

are you?

They're already being judged, and have been judged. Why are you so compelled to speak further and beyond- you're just acting like any other person no matter what they're worldview is. Anyone can condemn a child molester, it's the easiest, cheapest thing to throw some self-prescribed holiness at.
Did it make a difference?
No.

that's not an answer to the question i asked

are you comfortable judging howells and vaisey based on their actions?

 

[ok doser]

I don't want the wicked to be wicked in peace.

:thumb:

 

[Crucifer]

1) Do you think that prison is a good form of punishment for criminals? if so, why?

The fear of losing one's freedom is an effective deterrent against crime. However the death penalty is not- where's there's plenty of evidence to show that incarceration for criminals maintain general order, the death penalty has no evidence of doing anything at all. Even by the Islamic standard who's punishments are relatively draconian, they're decreased crime rate is hardly justification for it. There's still nonetheless a lot of rape, murder, and so on.

2) What would you suggest as an appropriate punishment for:

Murder

Murder isn't always so black and white. There's incidental murder (2nd degree), premeditated murder (1st degree), there's manslaughter, crime-of-passion, etc.

There's different motives and intents, not all of which can all be equated to the same punishment. Secular law has a pretty decent grasp on these things:
-Incidental murder = 15-25 years
-Premeditated murder = 25 years to life
-Manslaughter = 7-15 years

So on and so forth.
I don't see too much a problem with these things, as it is what democracy has determined and what is considered just by those who study legal philosophy. What separates these things from the death penalty is that they are near-universal notions regardless of the state or country you live in. If it's so against God's will then surely this would be a bit different, but apparently God has chosen not to influence it in the way you say it should be.

Adultery

Feminism is the reason why adultery is no longer punished the way it used to be. Few states have adultery laws and fewer enforce them. In today's world the adulterer rather just gets on the losing end of the court proceedings regarding any civil or financial thing attached to said marriage.
So in a way there is often punishment for an adulterer, but 1st World philosophy has seemed to dictate that it's not good form for governments to get involved so much that it's putting people in jail over it.

Sodomy

Bestiality
Incest[/QUOTE]

America has figured sodomy to be an individual right, but still maintains bestiality and incest as criminal. The irony is that sodomy is easily the most destructive of the three, as it's not just the partakers who suffer by it.
During the Founders time, sodomy was considered such a ridiculously taboo act that it was punishable by castration. Needless to say, there weren't any recorded cases of that actually happening even though there undoubtedly was homosexuality back then just there was in ancient Greece. People just kept it secret, much like the incestuous and bestial people.

Rape

Rape is such a convoluted subject. It's become tantamount to murder out of the sheer obsessive talk of it over time. It should be treated the same exact way as misdemeanor or felonious assault depending on the circumstance and that's that, because that's all it ultimately is.

Abortion

Israel has a decent stance on abortion, even though it's probably not followed like it should be. They only allow abortion in the circumstance of rape or if the woman's life is in danger.
These are also the cases where a woman is mostly likely to perform an abortion themselves, so it's necessary to have a clinical option there.

As far as abortion being 'murder'?
Meh. No matter how you paint that picture, you're just dealing in technicalities. If you call a fetus life, it is a life that doesn't recognize it's own existence and hasn't experienced anything.
The reason why abortion was considered so mortally sinful in the past was because there was no reason for you to not want a child unless there was just something very wrong with you- children were important. As well, the odds of having a successful birth and otherwise healthy children were very lacking, so aborting a child outright was simply considered Hell-tier evil.



I noted the things on the list that I feel matter the most, I'd be here all day if went through all of it. The bottom line is that this world has become so populated and advanced so much that evoking the Old Law is like putting a wagon wheel on your car- it's just can't work that way. Even with the Old Law itself, it's not as if was practiced even all through biblical history, the Jews weren't stoning people for every little thing even in David's time, the OL was more used as a tyranny against those society particularly hated and who's cases were sensationalized.

 

[Crucifer]

For the wicked, sure.

No, for society altogether.
The last thing we need is some moral inquisition.
Or do we just ignore those thousand years of persecuting everything that wasn't definitively saintly..

I don't want the wicked to be wicked in peace.

Right, because God's judgement and damnation isn't enough, you have to squeeze in your two cents to confirm your alleged holiness amiright?
That's the futility of judging, you can cherry pick the scriptures all you want but there's more verses than otherwise that really just point to the fact that judging is generally a folly.

 

[ok doser]

... judging is generally a folly.

Was judging generally a folly in the case of howells and vaisey?

 

[Crucifer]

Was judging generally a folly in the case of howells and vaisey?

This is like the 4th time you're bringing up that specific case.
Do you think you've found the golden circumstance- the thing to end all things on the matter of judging? If so, it's not very original.
If I had a nickel for every time someone has brought up molestation to justify unrestrained, senile degradation of a person I'd be set for life.

 

[ok doser]

This is like the 4th time you're bringing up that specific case.

and its like the 4th time you've squirmed and avoided answering that simple qestion

Do you think you've found the golden circumstance- the thing to end all things on the matter of judging?

i think i've found a case (one of many) that honest people can agree merits judging, a case in which most honest people can agree that it is not "folly" to judge it

If so, it's not very original.

i prefer a broadsword to an épée when bashing through dishonest argumentation from those who wish to enable perversion

... unrestrained, senile degradation of a person ...

speaking from personal experience? :chuckle:

 

[Crucifer]

i think i've found a case (one of many) that honest people can agree merits judging, a case in which most honest people can agree that it is not "folly" to judge it

You've found something that provokes an emotional response. It's all the rage these days to judge molesters. Put them to death, lynch them, eternal hellfire, etc. and yet the law did none of these things.
Why is that the case, ok doser? It couldn't be because, at the bottom of it, your judgement simply just doesn't fit the crime could it? It's all a grand conspiracy.