toldailytopic: The theory of evolution. Do you believe in it?

[One Eyed Jack]

Taikoo -- if you knew someone, don't you think you'd recognize them if you saw them?

 

[taikoo]

Taikoo -- if you knew someone, don't you think you'd recognize them if you saw them?

Depends. Why do you ask?

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Depends. Why do you ask?

Just think about it.

 

[taikoo]

Just think about it.

if you mean that some superstitious people in china came up with ideas similar to what the superstitious old goat herders of the middle east thought up-so what exactly?

both areas came up with astrology too.

and a lot of other things

I dont feel like playing riddles, if you have an idea say it.

 

[Stripe]

I have an idea.

:think:

:idea:

:mock: taikoo.

 

[chair]

if you mean that some superstitious people in china came up with ideas similar to what the superstitious old goat herders of the middle east thought up-so what exactly?

both areas came up with astrology too.

and a lot of other things

I don't feel like playing riddles, if you have an idea say it.

There re a lot of similarities between people's beliefs and traditions.

I was comparing Jewish New Years customs with my Taiwanese friend the other day...

 

[One Eyed Jack]

if you mean that some superstitious people in china came up with ideas similar to what the superstitious old goat herders of the middle east thought up-so what exactly?

both areas came up with astrology too.

and a lot of other things

I dont feel like playing riddles, if you have an idea say it.

Let me try another analogy. If you heard someone talking about your father, would they have to mention his name for you to know who they were talking about? Wouldn't certain qualities be instantly recognizable to you?

You know, Shang Di is never represented with images or idols -- ever. That's extremely rare among ancient deities. Rare enough that it really stands out.

And consider this. If the story of Babel is true (I know, I know -- just go with it for the sake of argument), then it makes sense that as these groups of people dispersed across the Earth, some of them would remember God.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[voltaire]

You might not recognize someone you know very well taikoo?

 

[Tyrathca]

Let me try another analogy. If you heard someone talking about your father, would they have to mention his name for you to know who they were talking about? Wouldn't certain qualities be instantly recognizable to you?

Couldn't you also hear details of someone else and mistakenly think they are about your father?

Sounds like what is happening here...

 

[Yorzhik]

I couldn't tell you what percentage of the possible number, total number is probably less than 4^10. I think we've been over this before anyway and it really has no bearing on my point in this case.

You aren't being clear here. Is this what you are trying to say? "I couldn't tell you what percentage of the possible number. The total possible number is probably less than 4^10."

So we have 4 strings here, AGAAAACTTGCACCA OR CGGAAGTTAGCTCCG OR CGTAAATTGGCCCC OR CGTAAACTCGCGCCT, each of 14 or 15 length. Could any of the 4 symbols possibly be in any place in these sequences?

And even if you couldn't tell me a percentage, let's at least find a range. How many working sequences are there? A range is fine if you don't know exactly. It has to be more than these 4, right? But it's less than, oh, let's say, 4^9, right?

Now, I realize you say this is important to your point, but you'll soon see that it is important when you try to go from one possibility to another with 1 or a few of the symbols changing each generation.

 

[No Sheep Here]

This seems to be a good thread with plenty of dialogue.

Do you believe in evolution? It is an idea one might believe in, yet acknowledge there are gaps, it is not a proven theory.

Do you believe in Jesus, one may believe in Jesus, but one may also know Jesus and it is the knowing, which matter most.

This sort of thinking is depressing. We have far more evidence for evolution, than we do Jesus.

Btw, evolution is a proven theory. Educate yourself on the matter before speaking falsely about it.

 

[Tyrathca]

You aren't being clear here. Is this what you are trying to say? "I couldn't tell you what percentage of the possible number. The total possible number is probably less than 4^10."

So we have 4 strings here, AGAAAACTTGCACCA OR CGGAAGTTAGCTCCG OR CGTAAATTGGCCCC OR CGTAAACTCGCGCCT, each of 14 or 15 length. Could any of the 4 symbols possibly be in any place in these sequences?

Not anywhere, and the code has to be a multiple of 3 or else the last 1 or 2 are meaningless. 3 genetic bases make a codon, and a codon codes for a specific amino acid. However there are less amino acids than there are codons thus multiple codons code for the same amino acids. Different amino acids have different degrees of redundancy though so each protein will have a different number of codes which can create it (even if they contain the same number of amino acids).

And even if you couldn't tell me a percentage, let's at least find a range. How many working sequences are there? A range is fine if you don't know exactly. It has to be more than these 4, right? But it's less than, oh, let's say, 4^9, right?

A lot less than 4^9. Past that I can't be bothered doing the maths. Surely you could look up a table on translation (I think Alate or someone else already embedded one in this thread) and figure it out yourself. It's not difficult but it is very tedious.

 

[taikoo]

Let me try another analogy. If you heard someone talking about your father, would they have to mention his name for you to know who they were talking about? Wouldn't certain qualities be instantly recognizable to you?

You know, Shang Di is never represented with images or idols -- ever. That's extremely rare among ancient deities. Rare enough that it really stands out.

And consider this. If the story of Babel is true (I know, I know -- just go with it for the sake of argument), then it makes sense that as these groups of people dispersed across the Earth, some of them would remember God.

That's all I'm saying.

I think I addressed that in the thing about the parallels between the two assassinations.

Since you mentioned it, i will put in that the tower of babel story is the kind of foolishness that keeps me from believing that the bible is what it is supposed to be.

 

[Alate_One]

Now, I realize you say this is important to your point, but you'll soon see that it is important when you try to go from one possibility to another with 1 or a few of the symbols changing each generation.

No, I said it ISN'T important to my point. I know what point you are trying to make, you've tried to make it elsewhere and failed.

As Tyrathca said, if you want to make the numbers argument, do it yourself. Or did up the old ones I already did for you.

And in no situation is more than one base going to change EVERY generation. you have a limited view of evolution.

But my point is because there are a huge number of possible DNA sequences for every gene that have identical functions, why do creatures thought to be evolutionarily related share them? If they were separately created we would expect them to either be totally different or all virtually identical.

 

[taikoo]

This sort of thinking is depressing. We have far more evidence for evolution, than we do Jesus.

Btw, evolution is a proven theory. Educate yourself on the matter before speaking falsely about it.

Awww dont be using the word "proven". Not in any formal sense,
Proven theory is an oxymoron. It has "proven" impossible so far for anyone to falsify it.... leading to the canard from the creos that it isnt really a theory and its not falsifiable.

but yes, the data for the reality of evolution is vast, and that for the historical existence of jesus quite scanty. The evidence that he actually was who it is claimed, or said the things attributed, did the things, is approximately zero.

 

[taikoo]

Hi No Sheet Here,

Tai answered your funny claim about ToE being a proven theory.
But you still believe it is, don't you?
Did you see where Tai wrote about similarities between Lincoln and Kennedy*?
I was thinking of using it to show how evolutionists take similarities
just like those and build an "evidence supported" Theory of Evolution.

There are literally thousands of examples where one could say the
assumptions were based on no more than what one sees in the similarities between Kennedy and Lincoln. It is exactly the same
scenario. Yet to accept those similarities in one situation is to be superstitious and to accept the same kind of similarities in science as evidence is evolution. Funny isn't it.

*

You find it so easy to convince yourself of what you want to think with such a ridiculous analogy.

Its not just a false analogy but you have to state falsehoods in order to make it.

The humour such as it is, is in your thinking your shallow grasp of science or logic lets you understand above and beyond the world scientific community. You actually think they are sillier than you are!

You like analogies, here is one. You are like a 3rd grade kid who can do simple arithmetic. You wander into a meeting of the mathematical society of america, and see they are making odd markings on a chalk board... not even using numbers!!!

That is so funny, you say. its not even math, math has numbers, all these big shots are just faking it and any 3rd grader / rainee knows better!

Exit, laughing.

your analysis of evolution is hardly even on that level.

 

[Stripe]

No, I said it ISN'T important to my point. I know what point you are trying to make, you've tried to make it elsewhere and failed.

Liar. We've had this discussion numerous times. And every time it comes up you use the same sort of example, get the same challenge and then ignore the challenge in a series of posts designed only to confuse people.

Y.s challenge is very, very simple. How about you face up to it?

 

[No Sheep Here]

Hi No Sheet Here,

Tai answered your funny claim about ToE being a proven theory.
But you still believe it is, don't you?
Did you see where Tai wrote about similarities between Lincoln and Kennedy*?
I was thinking of using it to show how evolutionists take similarities
just like those and build an "evidence supported" Theory of Evolution.

There are literally thousands of examples where one could say the
assumptions were based on no more than what one sees in the similarities between Kennedy and Lincoln. It is exactly the same
scenario. Yet to accept those similarities in one situation is to be superstitious and to accept the same kind of similarities in science as evidence is evolution. Funny isn't it.

*

Looks like Taikoo already beat me in addressing your foolish post. She is correct in telling me about using the word proven, however, I will use it for the certain dogmatic minded idiots like yourself. If you can believe with certainty in the BS you currently do, then I'll go a step further with declaring that evolution is proven, especially since we have tons more evidence for it, than your water into wine, walking on water boogie man creationist myths.

Grow out of your mental infancy! It's really depressing to see how people who are so level headed in life become a child regarding this one subject called religion.

 

[voltaire]

But my point is because
there are a huge number of
possible DNA sequences for
every gene that have
identical functions, why do
creatures thought to be
evolutionarily related share
them? If they were
separately created we
would expect them to either
be totally different or all
virtually identical.-------you have not even made an attempt to explain why this is a problem for special creation of each creature. You have been asked to do so but all i hear is either obfuscation with irrelevant technicalites or the cbirping of crickets.

 

[chair]

There is a major problem that Creationists have to deal with. How is it possible that the vast majority of biologists all accept the theory of evolution? How can it be that so many scientists in so many fields are convinced that the earth is many millions of years old?

There are some basic approaches to deal with this:
1. Scientists are all atheist god-haters
2. Scientists are afraid to say the truth- their colleagues will ruin them
3. Scientists are blind. There is some very simple evidence that anybody with a high school education can understand that shows that evolution is nonsense, and they just ignore it.

Did I miss any?