toldailytopic: Is it always wrong to hate?

[WandererInFog]

If so, we come back to your argument that one can't love someone without hating someone who would hurt them. But God says to love people how harm us. And nowhere does he say that pride is the issue. By that argument, God doesn't love Christians.

God says for us to be willing to love those who would harm us. It nowhere says that He does.

His word is not meant to be parsed like a lawyer reading estate law.

God chose to give us his words in the form of a written text which then requires proper exegesis to be properly understood, just like any other written text.

So it boils down to conflating resistance against evil to hatred?

We resist evil because we hate it. The two are interrelated.

 

[The Barbarian]

Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
If so, we come back to your argument that one can't love someone without hating someone who would hurt them. But God says to love people how harm us. And nowhere does he say that pride is the issue. By that argument, God doesn't love Christians.

God says for us to be willing to love those who would harm us. It nowhere says that He does.

So, God doesn't want us to hate. And it seems completely perverse to say that He wants us to love people He hates.

Barbarian suggests:
His word is not meant to be parsed like a lawyer reading estate law.

God chose to give us his words in the form of a written text which then requires proper exegesis to be properly understood, just like any other written text.

It requires a heart open to Him. Not a pettifogger.

Barbarian asks:
So it boils down to conflating resistance against evil to hatred?

We resist evil because we hate it.

I resist abortion; it's evil. But I don't hate people who do it. I pray for them.

The two are interrelated.

Conflated, in this case. And wrongly so.

 

[MaryContrary]

Learning to love like God is hard enough...
If you master that, then feel free to go on to learn to hate like He does.

I've mastered neither and I never will. But I'm trying anyway. And I happen to think the one requires the other, so I have no problem with this. God only hates those He does because He loves us.

 

[Cracked]

I've mastered neither and I never will. But I'm trying anyway. And I happen to think the one requires the other, so I have no problem with this. God only hates those He does because He loves us.

So tell me, what have you learned about hating others?

 

[Stripe]

Loserpod hates people who have different ideas from him. :idunno:

 

[MaryContrary]

So tell me, what have you learned about hating others?

If done in love, it has a much better chance than much anything else to encourage others to reexamine whatever behavior has prompted it.

That is what I've learned about hating others as God does (you left that part out) in trying to emulate His example.

 

[Cracked]

If done in love, it has a much better chance than much anything else to encourage others to reexamine whatever behavior has prompted it.

That is what I've learned about hating others as God does (you left that part out) in trying to emulate His example.

Who do you hate (please don't say "who God hates" - give an example or two if you will)? What criteria do they have to meet in order for you to hate them, and then, how do you show them your hate?

 

[Persephone66]

Hate is a common emotion, though I would not suggest basing one's mythology on it.

Oh, wait....

 

[MaryContrary]

Who do you hate (please don't say "who God hates" - give an example or two if you will)? What criteria do they have to meet in order for you to hate them, and then, how do you show them your hate?

I hold people responsible for the damage they do to themselves and others, as well as the offense to God. My standard is God, after all, so I endeavor to love others as He does and hate them as He does.

If you're unredeemed and you meet me, then you'll know soon after that I would do anything, even die if necessary, to save you, while knowing I hate your sin and hold you responsible for it. I don't love unconditionally, accepting you and your sin with open arms. I don't love you and hate your sin, as if you're not responsible for it. I love you because you're my kin and hate you for the sin you do. That, at least, is my goal, as that's my understanding of what God expects of me.

 

[Cracked]

I hold people responsible for the damage they do to themselves and others, as well as the offense to God.

I get this - but it doesn't sound like hate to me.

My standard is God, after all, so I endeavor to love others as He does and hate them as He does.

Does God hate you, or anyone who accepts the Gospel and has received the Spirit? How about those who are not saved - does God hate them?

If you're unredeemed and you meet me, then you'll know soon after that I would do anything, even die if necessary, to save you, while knowing I hate your sin and hold you responsible for it. I don't love unconditionally, accepting you and your sin with open arms. I don't love you and hate your sin, as if you're not responsible for it. I love you because your my kin and hate you for the sin you do. That, at least, is my goal, as that's my understanding of what God expects of me.

This sounds like "love the sinner yet hate the sin."

 

[MaryContrary]

I hate people who molest and murder young children. Does that make me weak and untrustworthy?

Would you agree to witness to someone like that or would you refuse to, given the opportunity?

 

[MaryContrary]

I get this - but it doesn't sound like hate to me.

If I hate a sin and hold you responsible for having committed that sin, then I'll hate you for committing that sin.

Does God hate you, or anyone who accepts the Gospel and has received the Spirit?

No. The debt is paid and righteousness is accounted to us. As far as God is concerned, we are righteous. He has made us saints. What's to hate?

How about those who are not saved - does God hate them?

Yes. They refuse to release their debt and so are accounted every sin, even their sinful nature. They are still responsible for their sin and He hates them for it.

This sounds like "love the sinner yet hate the sin."

Then you weren't paying attention. :idunno:

 

[Lovejoy]

I clearly do not understand the theological concept of hating. I had thought that most of the referrences to hate had implied 'cut off,' as in covenant blessings. I think I will stick with the avoidance of it (I stink at it anyway).

 

[Traditio]

@ Lighthouse, Mary_Contrary, Wanderer, etc.:

Tell me what the word "hate" means.

 

[The Barbarian]

I think for some it means "This part of imitating Christ, I don't want to do, so I'll pretend God wants me to hate people. To assuage my conscience, I'll also pretend that it's 'loving' them."

 

[Granite]

Jeez, guys, if you're gonna hate something or somebody just say so and stop trying to justify how you feel by hiding behind some verses. Any emotion as powerful as hatred doesn't need footnotes, for crying out loud.

 

[Cracked]

No. The debt is paid and righteousness is accounted to us. As far as God is concerned, we are righteous. He has made us saints. What's to hate?

If I hate a sin and hold you responsible for having committed that sin, then I'll hate you for committing that sin.

Unless I am saved - then you won't hate me (because God doesn't hate me). What if a saved person does something really horrible, is it okay to hate them then?

And - how do you hold them "responsible" (I'm talking those outside the church here)? Do you punish them, and how so? Also, can you hold a person responsible out of love, and if you can, how would that look any different than holding someone responsible out of hate?

Yes. They refuse to release their debt and so are accounted every sin, even their sinful nature. They are still responsible for their sin and He hates them for it.

And yet loves them enough to die for them, to reach out for them, and change their lives if they let Him. He loves them enough to teach His children to love them as neighbors or our enemies.

 

[Lovejoy]

I just reviewed all that I could about hate and how it is viewed and held by the Lord and His servants. I am sorry guys, but I still don't get it. I see Him hating Esau, but it is only mentioned a thousand years later, and only in the form of his having been cut off from the covenant blessings of Jacob. Even Paul seems to substantiate that. Other than that, David says it quite a bit, but, do we model ourselves on David, or Jesus? If David, then we need to review our ideas about parenting, marriage, and getting people killed to steal their wives. What am I missing?

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

I just reviewed all that I could about hate and how it is viewed and held by the Lord and His servants. I am sorry guys, but I still don't get it. I see Him hating Esau, but it is only mentioned a thousand years later, and only in the form of his having been cut off from the covenant blessings of Jacob. Even Paul seems to substantiate that. Other than that, David says it quite a bit, but, do we model ourselves on David, or Jesus? If David, then we need to review our ideas about parenting, marriage, and getting people killed to steal their wives. What am I missing?

I have quoted him before but C.S.Lewis has an acceptable rationale for our ability to feel hatred. He states that we can feel hate so that we shall hate that which is evil. In order to fight that which is evil we must feel intensely the rightness of the struggle and the danger of the evil.
For instance, many studies have shown that child molesters cannot be cured. We have an obligation to protect children from them. I believe they must be incarcerated for life.
We must not fall into complacency about evil. The attitude that "It doesn't affect me so I have no obligation to get involved" is destructive to the fabric of society. The Nazi's made their deadly march over the German people, most of Europe and the Scandinavian countries. The Russians, the British and the American's combined efforts finally stopped them.
Even so sterling a human being as Dietrich Bonhoeffer finally renounced pacivism and entered into the plot to kill Hitler.
I believe we must utilize our ability to hate in order to fight evil.
This is not a license to engage in unwarranted brutality but it does demand that we fight with every weapon at our disposible, as necessary, and perhaps we may lose our lives in the process BUT not our souls.
bybee

 

[Traditio]

What does "hate" mean?