toldailytopic: Do all atheists know in their heart that God exists yet reject Him?

[MrRadish]

We can never know exactly what someone else really thinks or believes about anything. We can only go by the word. And as far as I'm concerned it is profoundly arrogant to tell somebody you know what they're thinking better than they do. Luckily few people I know use this argument, but on the few occasions I've seen it used on someone, the one who's being accused of lying has generally wanted to punch the other person in the teeth.

I really can't stress just how odious it is to tell someone they're wrong about what they believe, especially on something so personal and so fundamental as the existence of a God. It's one of the most disrespectful things to say to someone I can think of. It sort of reminds me when people tell homophobic people that they are definitely a closet homosexual.

 

[Poly]

I find that a lot of atheists claim not to believe in God until something bad happens and then all of a sudden He exists as a big horrible monster whom they blame for their circumstances.

 

[Ktoyou]

We are talking here of the knowledge of the existence of God.
I know full well that others don’t believe as I do. I also know full well that scatheists know God exists.

I understand the topic; that is rather presumptuous of you to conclude I would not comprehend something so simple. I have also known highly educated persons who had no clue that any supreme being exists, nor did it seem sensible, yet they, being educated, knew that they could not make a statement about the negation of something unprovable.

I have also known more dogmatic atheists who clain they are sure God does not exist; however, in their case, I think what they believe is theism serves no purpose.

Most agnostics do not worship God or other deities anymore than atheists. It seems the major difference is an understanding that it is impossible for the to to know the unknowable.

Your position stems for the idea that if you think about something, then it is part of a universal human universal thought process.

 

[Ktoyou]

I find that a lot of atheists claim not to believe in God until something bad happens and then all of a sudden He exists as a big horrible monster whom they blame for it.

or they throw themselves on His mercy.

Most of these cases would be those who once believed in God, but rebelled against the teachings of childhood.

 

[Thunder's Muse]

I don't think so....

The way that I understand it, an Athiest simply cannot logically see that God exists.

 

[Poly]

I don't think so....

The way that I understand it, an Athiest simply cannot logically see that God exists.

So I guess the question is...

for those who claim to be atheists, are they truly what they say they are?

I know several people who once claimed to believe in God yet now claim they don't. Unfortunately this was due to tragic events in their lives. But here's the attitude I read from many "ex" believers in God who are mad at Him because they think He brought about their circumstances:

"I'll show you, God! I'm so mad at you that I don't want anything to do with You anymore!. Not only that, I'm going to claim that You don't even exist so HA!! That'll teach ya!"

 

[Ktoyou]

So I guess the question is...

for those who claim to be atheists, are they truly what they say they are?

I know several people who once claimed to believe in God yet now claim they don't. Unfortunately this was due to tragic events in their lives. But here's the attitude I read from many "ex" believers in God who are mad at Him because they think He brought about their circumstances:

"I'll show you, God! I'm so mad at you that I don't want anything to do with You anymore!. Not only that, I'm going to claim that You don't even exist so HA!! That'll teach ya!"

Here is what I observed; those who had the least religious experience and most likely to be real atheists and often call themselves agnostics. Breaking this down, if you are raised in the USA, say California and your parents are not at all religious, then atheism is less reactionary. More so, if you were raised in China, where there is very little cultural religion, then atheism is probably your true sense of reality. Just the opposite, if you are raised in a highly religious family in a middle America, you might be atheists as a phase. In this case, I will buy that the person always has a belief in God, but denies it. Make sense?

 

[Thunder's Muse]

So I guess the question is...

for those who claim to be atheists, are they truly what they say they are?

I know several people who once claimed to believe in God yet now claim they don't. Unfortunately this was due to tragic events in their lives. But here's the attitude I read from many "ex" believers in God who are mad at Him because they think He brought about their circumstances:

"I'll show you, God! I'm so mad at you that I don't want anything to do with You anymore!. Not only that, I'm going to claim that You don't even exist so HA!! That'll teach ya!"

Well, that was me..for a very long time. I was angry at God...very angry. I felt that he created me just to experience pain, rejection and torment. It wasn't until I began to deal with my baggage that I allowed myself to look at God again.

But not everyone has this experience. I agree that some people who claim to not believe God exists are simply angry at Him for whatever reason. However, to say that all Athiests fall into this category is not quite accurate.

Some Athiests simply cannot logically see that God exists.

 

[Persephone66]

I there is no proof of the existence of any god, therefore I don't know in my heart or any other organ that any god exists.

 

[Granite]

So I guess the question is...

for those who claim to be atheists, are they truly what they say they are?

I know several people who once claimed to believe in God yet now claim they don't. Unfortunately this was due to tragic events in their lives. But here's the attitude I read from many "ex" believers in God who are mad at Him because they think He brought about their circumstances:

"I'll show you, God! I'm so mad at you that I don't want anything to do with You anymore!. Not only that, I'm going to claim that You don't even exist so HA!! That'll teach ya!"

While there may be people driven purely by a sense of rebellion (and I'd consider them essentially backslidden religionists, considering they actually still do believe, technically), it'd be of course inaccurate to say that all atheists claim not to believe in God simply in an attempt to get back at him.

If Christians rely only on questioning the sincerity of an atheist's convictions there is no room for a discussion, simply because the Christian enters with the assumption he or she is dealing with a liar, or self-deluded individual.

 

[Ktoyou]

Well, that was me..for a very long time. I was angry at God...very angry. I felt that he created me just to experience pain, rejection and torment. It wasn't until I began to deal with my baggage that I allowed myself to look at God again.

But not everyone has this experience. I agree that some people who claim to not believe God exists are simply angry at Him for whatever reason. However, to say that all Athiests fall into this category is not quite accurate.

Some Athiests simply cannot logically see that God exists.

Yet you knew God made you at angry at Him. What about if you were raised in China and all religion, (belief in any god) was not taught and seen as we see witchcraft, that being part of it, you as disrespecting the state. That the sate could send you to school and have you work inside and have a little apartment with a stereo and color TV. If you saw no rational for believing in what is unseen, yet you had the visible state provide you a better life, would you think you would secretly be religious, knowing your society rejects it and you could lose you better life by defying the state?

You have to take yourself out of the equation and try to imagine living in a world where no one talked about God or gods and where it was seen as asocial to entertain such thoughts, you knowing this from earliest childhood.

 

[Persephone66]

So I guess the question is...

for those who claim to be atheists, are they truly what they say they are?

I know several people who once claimed to believe in God yet now claim they don't. Unfortunately this was due to tragic events in their lives. But here's the attitude I read from many "ex" believers in God who are mad at Him because they think He brought about their circumstances:

"I'll show you, God! I'm so mad at you that I don't want anything to do with You anymore!. Not only that, I'm going to claim that You don't even exist so HA!! That'll teach ya!"

How can one be mad at that which does not exist?

 

[Ktoyou]

How can one be mad at that which does not exist?

Blanket statement! She know in her heart that God does exist, thus God might be angry at her. You have to follow the other persons' thought process, otherwise you never communicate.

 

[Persephone66]

Blanket statement! She know in her heart that God does exist, thus God might be angry at her. You have to follow the other persons' thought process, otherwise you never communicate.

Well I guess if a kid can be mad at their imaginary friend, an adult can be mad at their imaginary god.

 

[Thunder's Muse]

Yet you knew God made you at angry at Him. What about if you were raised in China and all religion, (belief in any god) was not taught and seen as we see witchcraft, that being part of it, you as disrespecting the state. That the sate could send you to school and have you work inside and have a little apartment with a stereo and color TV. If you saw no rational for believing in what is unseen, yet you had the visible state provide you a better life, would you think you would secretly be religious, knowing your society rejects it and you could lose you better life by defying the state?

You have to take yourself out of the equation and try to imagine living in a world where no one talked about God or gods and where it was seen as asocial to entertain such thoughts, you knowing this from earliest childhood.

Yep, I see your point.

I guess I always knew that God existed...otherwise I could not be angry at Him. I think being raised in a Christian home, the idea of God existing was simply a given.

Had I been raised in a society that doesn't acknowledge God, it may have been very different.

 

[kmoney]

You sound like Dwight Schrute. Do you have anything to actually add to this discussion?

there's nothing wrong with sounding like Dwight. :noid:




As for the thread, I would say no. There may be some people who, deep inside themselves somewhere, feel there is a god but continue to reject the idea, but I don't think it's reasonable to make a blanket statement about all atheists. But in some ways I think it might depend on what type of god you are proposing. I think it's more likely people have a gut feeling about a deity of some sort, but not so much a personal savior god like that of the bible or other religions.

 

[Prisca]

Do all atheists know in their heart that God exists yet reject Him?

An honest atheist can't say for sure that he knows there is no God, otherwise he'd have to claim to be "all knowing." But does an atheist know in his heart that God exists?

It seems to me that children generally believe in God until something or someone comes along and tells them otherwise. At that point, they reject their former "knowledge" of God and in that regard, they are rejecting Him.

When I declared myself to be an atheist at the age of 13, I still went looking for the truth. I think I hoped that some day I would be convinced one way or the other. The evidence I gathered finally pushed me in favor of "a god" and later, in favor of the God of the Bible.

 

[Tyrathca]

An honest atheist can't say for sure that he knows there is no God, otherwise he'd have to claim to be "all knowing."

There are actually a lot of atheists such as myself who agree with this, we admit we can only say that we think the existence of god is highly improbable (like 0.00001% chance). Basically the equivalent of fairies existing at the bottom of the garden to borrow a phrase from Richard Dawkins.

It seems to me that children generally believe in God until something or someone comes along and tells them otherwise. At that point, they reject their former "knowledge" of God and in that regard, they are rejecting Him.

Really? I don't recall ever having that belief nor do my parents ever mention it. I did have an imaginary pet dog for a brief time that I "knew" existed (and had gone missing, much to my distress). Though I was not introduced to the god concept until fairly late compared to most children (primary school). Care to explain this assumption to us then?

 

[Ktoyou]

Do all atheists know in their heart that God exists yet reject Him?

An honest atheist can't say for sure that he knows there is no God, otherwise he'd have to claim to be "all knowing." But does an atheist know in his heart that God exists?

It seems to me that children generally believe in God until something or someone comes along and tells them otherwise. At that point, they reject their former "knowledge" of God and in that regard, they are rejecting Him.

When I declared myself to be an atheist at the age of 13, I still went looking for the truth. I think I hoped that some day I would be convinced one way or the other. The evidence I gathered finally pushed me in favor of "a god" and later, in favor of the God of the Bible.

I think you have a point about young children, yet I do not think it is the Christian God, exactly, rather a higher power. I also think it is quite hard not to conceptualize our Christian God, even if ones parents are not religious, that is secular, no church, no Bible, nothing spiritual, as we are exposed to the Christian God in our culture.

At this point, believing in God could be the rebellious thing to do. It is a different case when one is raised in a totally secular culture, such as China; there is no outside reinforcement. From what I have been able to gather, just reviewing attitudes amongst younger Chinese adults, the idea of God makes no sense to them.

I have always believed in God and remained in the church I was brought up; for some reason, I am not sure, I never even considered rebelling against believing in God. I was not the rebellious type until I was almost 30 and then I rebelled over trivial things, such as style and attitudes about women, which, thinking about it, was not all that silly.

 

[Prisca]

There are actually a lot of atheists such as myself who agree with this, we admit we can only say that we think the existence of god is highly improbable (like 0.00001% chance). Basically the equivalent of fairies existing at the bottom of the garden to borrow a phrase from Richard Dawkins.

That makes you an honest, but probably stubborn atheist. But let's see....

1. When presented with evidence for the existence of a higher power, do you stop to think about it or do you automatically go into "mock mode?"

2.Do you ever stop to consider that somewhere in that tiny (0.00001%) void of knowledge, you might really be wrong?

3. Can you honestly say that you don't get some kind of ego boost from claiming atheism?

Really? I don't recall ever having that belief nor do my parents ever mention it. I did have an imaginary pet dog for a brief time that I "knew" existed (and had gone missing, much to my distress). Though I was not introduced to the god concept until fairly late compared to most children (primary school). Care to explain this assumption to us then?

I believe it is remotely possible that you never believed in a higher power, but you would be in the minority. A look at nearly all cultures around the world tell us that it is much more common to believe in a god or gods, than it is not to.

When I first started having children, I vowed that I would not influence their belief for or against a god. I was, after all, a graduate of the public school system! Imagine my surprise when one after the other, they each asked me about God.

I was so conflicted! On the one hand, I was fairly convinced that there was no God, but on the other hand, I didn't want to take away any sense of security they might get from having this belief. I opted to tell them that I didn't know and that they would have to decide for themselves what they thought. Thankfully, my grandchildren will not have to suffer this kind of wishy-washy answer!