Things that are different are not the same that includes God and Jesus Christ.

[oatmeal]

. . And what do you do with the glory God gave Jesus, the glory God said He would share with no one, nor could He for that matter? How was it possible that HE could?

Why do you refuse to read and believe the scripture I provided for your learning?

It doesn't fit with your teacher's theology, does it?

Your teachers failed you.

 

[Cross Reference]

If context means nothing to you, then you cannot learn much from scripture.

Context means everything to me. It is you who, by your willful obtuseness, mean nothing to me.

When we let scripture, not our pet theology, do the talking, then we learn, until then, we are nothing but experts at guessing, guessperts!

I gave you two scriptures verse that go hand in glove. You twisted one and refuse to consider the other. To me, you are a spiritual non-Christian phoney-fraud who would have Jesus Christ to be a created being..

When you read the context, then you will learn much, much more

Your context is no context.

 

[achduke]

You should read John 10 for yourself sometime.

John 10:31-39
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 

[Cross Reference]

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." . . . Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)

Oats would have it that Jesus was never called by these names. He is wrong. He was called by one even greater [if that is possible] but only after it was understood by His disciples that they could then write of it being as they beheld His Glory:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." . . "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and [*because of His being in flesh form] we beheld his glory, . . . .[but limited to] . . . being the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-5-14 (KJV)

*[Emphasis mine]

Context? Ah, yes. It is everything.

 

[oatmeal]

Context means everything to me. It is you who, by your willful obtuseness, mean nothing to me.



I gave you two scriptures verse that go hand in glove. You twisted one and refuse to consider the other. To me, you are a spiritual non-Christian phoney-fraud who would have Jesus Christ to be a created being..



Your context is no context.

You have yet to reply to my points

Since God gave Jesus glory, then Jesus did not have glory.

If Jesus was God, then God would not have to give God glory that God did not have, for God would have already have that glory.

Why would Jesus ask God for glory that he already had?

Are you suggesting that Jesus was ignorant of the glory that he already had? maybe Jesus forgot that he is God and that he already had glory?

Did God glorify you or not. Romans says He did.

Why not believe the scripture?

Since God glorified you, you must have God's glory, why do you not claim to be God? After all, you have been glorified by God. Romans 8:30

Did God justify you? God says He did. Romans 5:1 and other places.

Since He justified you, He likewise glorified you. Is Romans 8:30 wrong or is Isaiah 48:11 wrong? or is our understanding of those scriptures in error? Have we learned from the context of Isaiah 48:11 what God is talking about?

Why do you not answer these questions?

Why do you call the scripture I supplied bilge?

Don't you believe that scripture is God's word?

If not, I can understand that, you may have not been taught enough from scripture to actually believe that.

God's word is pure. Psalm 12:6

Jesus Christ considered scripture to be God's word. John 17:17

Note that Jesus refers to God's word, not to his words, Jesus Christ did the Father's will, not his own will.

Thus we have two different wills, thus God and Jesus are different, therefore they are not the same.

Take your time. This maybe quite a shock to your previous learning.

Things you thought were true for many years are unravelling before your eyes. That is not an easy adventure to live.

Yet, even Saul of Tarsus had to relearn a few things.

He did and lived a life worthy of God

 

[oatmeal]

Thank you for those scriptures.

"theos" and "elohim" and other words used in scripture refer to more than just the Creator by God's design.

If people would learn that simple truth, how great that would be!

 

[genuineoriginal]

we worship Christ as God.

Jesus never told you to do that.

 

[Cross Reference]

You have yet to reply to my points

Since God gave Jesus glory, then Jesus did not have glory.

If Jesus was God, then God would not have to give God glory that God did not have, for God would have already have that glory.

I will not chase your rabbits. Forget it.


And Jesus could NOT have received the Glory of God if He had not been equal to God!!!!! God cannot share His glory with anyone less equal to Himself. If it was possible it would mean anyone in sin could share His glory as He saw fit. That absolutely, can't happen!! His attributes would not permit it!!

Now, digest this very carefully:

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." . . . ."I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols". . Philippians 2:5-8; Isaiah 42:8 (ESV)

[Try seeing yourself in that group of people who were confused about the whole incarnation thing to consider your error in understanding that God will be anything or anyone He needs to be in order to bring about His purposes. That is what "I AM THAT I AM" means. That is what Jesus declared about Himself when stating He was the ""I AM" THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE", when He said this to the Pharisees using the present tense: "Before Abraham was, "I AM"".

And the armed guard who fell back when he declared who He was:
"When Jesus said to them, "I AM" He, they went backwards (drew back, lurched backward) and fell to the ground." John 18:6 (AMP)

He and God were different say? One less glorious than the other??

I would think one more time about that, if I were you.

"I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols".
Isaiah 42:8 (ESV)

 

[Sherman]

So what?



But He is the son, isn't He? And if he learns the ways of His Father will he not qualified to do the business of his father when the day comes his Father hands him his Throne?



What makes them different if they are one in the life they exhibit? Would you be different from your father if you performed your life as he performed his? . . .in union with his?



Again, so what?

I again had to move this thread. Do not open another one in the ECT. I will be deleting the other one.

 

[oatmeal]

Wasn't this thread on the exclusively Christian forum?

I thought so.

Evidently, quoting scriptures is not compatible with that forum!

 

[oatmeal]

I again had to move this thread. Do not open another one in the ECT. I will be deleting the other one.

Does quoting scripture offend you?

Evidently, it does

Especially so if it refutes your foolish doctrines

Your methodical rejection of scripture reminds me of what Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul and other men and women of God had to deal with.

 

[oatmeal]

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." . . . Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)

Oats would have it that Jesus was never called by these names. He is wrong. He was called by one even greater [if that is possible] but only after it was understood by His disciples that they could then write of it being as they beheld His Glory:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." . . "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and [*because of His being in flesh form] we beheld his glory, . . . .[but limited to] . . . being the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-5-14 (KJV)

*[Emphasis mine]

Context? Ah, yes. It is everything.

Did I say context is everything?

No, you deceitful man, I did not.

Without context, you lose too much

 

[oatmeal]

It must be humiliating being a trinitarian

Always making excuses and name calling because you cannot explain why you reject so many scriptures.

Show me where God erred in the scriptures I shared.

 

[oatmeal]

You know, I shouldn't be like that.

Who am I to criticize anyone's unbelief?

Learning takes time, it is not instantaneous.

When people are ready to learn, then they will learn.

That is how it has always been with me.

Until someone is ready to learn, no one can teach them

 

[Cruciform]

The two are different persons, thus they are not the same.

Not the same Person. They ARE, however, the same Being.

God is not Jesus Christ.

God the Father is not Jesus Christ, correct. The two, however, ARE---along with the Holy Spirit---the same Divine Being ("God").

Jesus Christ is not God

Jesus Christ is not God the Father, correct. The two, however, ARE---along with the Holy Spirit---the same Divine Being ("God").



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[oatmeal]

They maybe be similar, even as any male son is similar to his father, but similarity is not identity.

 

[oatmeal]

Are you your own father? Is there a difference between you and your father?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Oatmeal,

behind the views of the Trinitarians is this view planted in their minds by the devil, that Jesus is an individual person who was alive with His Father before the world was created.

who came down from Heaven to become a God- man.

Nothing we can say will remove that from their minds because they do not go to the Lord for their learning.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

What did Jesus mean when he said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

What does God mean when He states that a husband and wife are to become on flesh? Is sex the epitome of marriage or is oneness in loving and serving God first as one flesh what oneness is all about?

 

[oatmeal]

Did I say context is everything?

No, you deceitful man, I did not.

Without context, you lose too much

Context is not everything.

Why read John 3:16 if context is everything? Just read John 3 skipping over verse 16.