heir
TOL Subscriber
Made up.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Of course, you erected another straw man, slanderous reporter.
ECT There is one Gospel/salvation, Heb 2:3
- Thread starter Interplanner
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2 Timothy 3:16-17
Christian.
dodge
New member
I understand that what Jesus taught is considered a straw man by the world but never expected that nonsense from those that name the name of Christ Jesus.
No matter how you cut it Jesus taught that He was there for the salvation of the gentiles before Paul ever got saved.
Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Proving yet again that MAD is a fraud.
And Jacob was not Jewish by birth or by religion.
God's Truth
New member
Jews are the blood relatives of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Jews are the people who were given the law.
Moses was a Hebrew. Exodus 2:11 One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people.
Abraham was a Hebrew. Genesis 14:13 A man who had escaped came and reported this to Abram the Hebrew. Now Abram was living near the great trees of Mamre the Amorite, a brother of Eshkol and Aner, all of whom were allied with Abram.
The Jews were Hebrews.
Jesus says salvation is from the JEWS. We know that Jesus was a Jew, and that as to his earthly side he was related David, who was related to Moses, and they were related to Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham.
Read how Paul says he himself was a Jew.
Acts 21:39 Paul answered, "I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Please let me speak to the people."
Read how Paul's people THE JEWS were ISRAEL, and WERE CUT OFF.
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race,
Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.
Ezekiel 37:15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 37:18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 37:20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Daniel 9:7 O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
In short, dodge...
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
Interplanner
Well-known member
What was Abraham the moment before he believed? Was he already a Hebrew? Or was he Persian? Interesting how Paul focuses on his faith, not his origin, as what is replicated among Gentiles.
You're really hopeless...
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
That right there is a contrast between Believing literal, physical sons of Jacob, and Unbelieving literal, physical sons of Jacob.
The same contrast between those two, literal, physical sons of Jacob, he points out in the following...
Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
The Lord Himself had noted this distinction between those two literal, physical sons of Jacob...
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Why did Paul even bring that distinction up, in Romans 4?
Towards silencing those who view the issue as one of ethnicity.
Which is NOT what Dispensationalism does (other than in yours and northwye's incompetence, Interplanner).
Paul brought that up towards silencing those who view this issue as one of ethnicity - towards silencing them through pointing out who of the right ethnicity (Israelite) and who not of the right ethnicity (Gentiles) are counted for the seed, and on what basis, this side of all that is laid out Romans 1 thru 3 by the time Paul gets to the following...
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Israelites were also blood relatives of Israel's fathers.
And Paul was a "Jew" only by religion if we consider adherents of Judaism as Jews. His bloodline was Hebrew through Benjamin, Joseph's younger brother.
God's Truth
New member
Are you saying his descendants breeding out what he was?
God's Truth
New member
You said that to my saying this: "Jews are the blood relatives of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
The Israelites fathers are Abraham, Jacob, Isaac.
Acts 7:32 I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.' Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.
And, Hebrews are related to Moses and Abraham.
All Jews are blood related to Abraham.
The one fold is this:
Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
As well as Israel.
God's Truth
New member
The Jews were called the people of Israel.
dodge
New member
Good morning Steko.
That would work if Jesus and David were the same person,which they aren't.
What you quoted in Ezekiel was partially fulfilled in David and will be fulfilled and completed in Jesus when He returns.
Where Jesus says He will have one fold with one Shepherd is Jesus speaking to bringing the gentiles into the one fold.
Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
If as many believe that Jesus was referring to scattered Jews don't you believe He would have just said that and not use the "other sheep", "not of this fold", and "one" shepherd" ?
1. Jesus as the descendant of David is who is being spoken about.
2. David is not the eternal ruler of Israel Jesus as His descendant is.
3. The eternal prince of Israel is Jesus, who was before David and David's descendant through the tribe of Judah, NOT David.
4. David was spoken of as the eternal prince only because Jesus as His descendant is the"eternal prince".
By looking back to this as proof of Jesus not speaking to bring the gentiles into the fold,which He did,Jesus has been removed from His own ministry and His own Gospel.
Jesus' ministry was universal or HE was a charlatan and a liar !
Jesus said ,"come unto me you who are heavy laden and I will give "you"rest take my yolk etc.etc. NOT once did Jesus make reference to Israel in many "universal" promises and instructions for those who go to Him.
Jn. 3:16 is another example of what folks have to dismiss to believe Jesus was only sent to and for Israel: For God so loved the "world" that He gave His only begotten Son that "whosoever" ( no reference to Israel )believes in Him etc.
.
Except Israel was captured long before Judah.
The Jews are only a small part of the nations of Israel today.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The nations? Plural? lol
Please get back to the plain meaning of the Bible before you are taken any further adrift from sensibility.
Was Abram's name changed to Abraham? If so, why?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Proving yet again, that YOU don't know what you are talking about: Gentiles are not referred to as "sheep" in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but "dogs"!
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
...
Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.