There Is No Such Thing As A Future The Antichrist.

JAG

Active member
There Is No Such Thing As A Future The Antichrist.
By JAG
October 5, 2021

(1) Intelligent extraterrestrials have visited Earth. (2) There will be a future The Antichrist. (1) and (2) are in the same category. Both are bald assertions without a shred of credible evidence in support. Its impossible to produce even one (1) Bible verse that says there will be a future The Antichrist. There were/are antichrists (little a, plural) in the world, but there is no such thing as an evil political world ruler, in our future, to be known as The Antichrist ~ try to find a Bible verse that says that.

So where did the notion of a future evil world political ruler come from? It came from unrestrained human imaginations and speculations. By the way, various people who have predicted a future antichrist, are on record in the public square, identifying The Antichrist as being: Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler, Henry Kissinger, Mikhail Gorbachev, Saddam Hussein, Pope John Paul ll, and Yasser Arafat ~ to name just a few of their many proven-wrong prophecies. Further identifications of The Antichrist by these folks have been microchips, bar codes, and zip codes.

Questions: Does the fact that they have been wrong every time they have publicly identified The Antichrist stop them from continuing to make more public identifications? No. And does their long history of being proven wrong cause their students to stop taking them seriously? No. It is difficult to break free from addiction to end times sensational exciting scary fear fiction ~ believing it, stimulates the blood, and stirs up the imagination and large numbers of humans are drawn to that kind of excitement.

Some have speculated that Daniel 7:8's "little horn", and Rev.13:1's "beast", and 2 Thess. 2:3's "man of lawlessness" is somehow connected to John's antichrists (little a, plural). But there is not one (1) single Bible verse in Daniel or in Revelation or in Paul's epistles that is connected in any way whatsoever with John's antichrists. Any alleged connection is nothing more than emotion-based end times dramatic sensational speculation.

The first century was plagued with false teachers. Jesus warned His disciples that "many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many." Matt. 24:5. Jesus also said, "many false prophets will arise and mislead many" Matt. 24:11. And He warned that, "false Christs and false prophets will appear" Matthew 24:24. WHEN did Jesus say ALL this would take place? He said it would ALL take place in the first century. "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened." Matt. 24:34. And it was in this context that John's antichrists were mentioned.
1 John 2:18 - 26
"18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."
Interpretative Analysis Of 1 John 2:18 -26
John's first century readers had heard that antichrists were coming in their time of the first century. John says, "even now many antichrists have come" 1 John 2:18.
John says these first century antichrists "went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us, but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." John's antichrists were first century Christian apostates that were at one time with John and the other Christians of the first century, but who turned against John and against Christ and became antichrists. There is no future evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist anywhere in John's epistles or anywhere else in the Holy Bible.
These first century Christian apostates had denied that Jesus was the Christ and John says "such a person is the antichrist." John is writing this to first century Christians to warn them about these first century antichrists "who are trying to lead you astray." The antichrists (little a, plural) of the first century was an evil false-doctrinal movement and not an individual. "even now many antichrists have come." 1 John 2:18 And this movement was made up of "many deceivers" 2 John 7
1 John 4:1-6
"1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."
Interpretative Analysis Of 1 John 4:1-6
John says "many false prophets have gone out into the world" (of the first century). John identifies these false prophets as "the spirit of antichrist" and says even now they are "already in the world" (of the first century.) Then John says to those first century Christians (who are reading 1 John) that they (there in the first century) have "already overcome" these antichrists because the one who is in them is greater than the one who is in the world. So? So there is no evil political world ruler in our future that will come to be known as The Antichrist ~ a notion that is imaginative speculation unsupported by any credible evidence.

2 John 4 -11
"4It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
7I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work."
Interpretative Analysis of 2 John 4 - 11
John writes to his first century readers that they are to walk in love and he says "I say this because many deceivers . . . have gone out into the world" (of the first century). John says "any such person" is the deceiver and the antichrist. John then tells his first century readers not to welcome these antichrists into their homes. So? So John's antichrists (little a, plural) were first century Christian apostates. The Bible the word of God nowhere says there will be a future evil political world ruler that will become known as The Antichrist, and the notion that there will be such a person is pure fiction with no credible Biblical evidence in support.

___________________

Regarding The Antichrist:
The word antichrist appears only five times in the entire word of God ~ Genesis to Revelation. And none of these verses say a single word about an end time evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist ~ we're dealing here with pure imaginative speculation. Here are the five verses: 1 John 2:18,22 (see 1 John 2:18-26 for context) . . . 1 John 4:3 (see 1 john 4:1-6 for context) . . . 2 John 4:3 (see 2 John 4-11 for context.

John's antichrists are:
(1) not in our future, but in our past (the first century some 2000 years ago)
(2) not one individual, but a multitude (of antichrists-false-teachers who denied that Jesus was the Christ)
(3) not a person but a heresy ~ ( a false-doctrine movement that was active in the first century.)

Many modern end times prophets believe The Antichrist is alive today. One of them in an interview said, "In my personal opinion, he's alive somewhere right now." Compare Tertullian's assertion over 1700 years ago that The Antichrist "is close at hand."

Many modern day prophets have wildly speculated that Paul's "the man of lawlessness" (2Thess.2:1-12) is a reference to The Antichrist. However, there is not a shred of credible evidence in 2 Thess.2:1-12 that connects "the man of lawlessness" to John's "antichrists" (little a, plural). Paul's "the man of lawlessness" is the first century's evil-insane Nero Caesar, who is also John's "the beast" of Revelation 13. For a vigorous argument defending this view, see Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion, pages 386-394 on "the man of lawlessness." See the Subject Index "beast of Revelation" regarding Nero Caesar as Revelation 13's "the beast."

The far fetched speculation that there is to be, in our future, an evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist, is one element in a larger defeatist system of end times eschatological teaching that the Lord Jesus and His Christian Church FAILS to be successful in carrying out The Great Commission to "go and make disciples of all nations." You've heard of JESUS SAVES, well this defeatist eschatological system teaches that JESUS FAILS ~ that the Lord Jesus' command to His Christian Church to "go and make disciples of all nations" FAILS to be successfully carried out, even though Jesus boldly says, "ALL authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. THEREFORE go and make disciples of all nations." (Matthew 28:16-20) JESUS FAILS (His Great Commission fails) sends the message of pessimism and defeatism to both the whole world and worse, to the Christian Church who becomes evangelistically paralyzed when repeatedly told we will FAIL in our God assigned task to evangelize the world. Can you imagine an NFL coach spending several hours before the upcoming football game repeatedly telling his team that there is no possible way they can win. This defeatist pessimistic eschatological system repeatedly tells the Christian Church that we will FAIL to successfully carry out her Lord's Great Commission to make disciples of all nations. So? So this far fetched speculation built around The Antichrist has far reaching ramifications of pessimism and defeatism for the Christian Church. This defeatist eschatological system teaches that the Christian Church will NOT grow to become a worldwide good influence on people and nations before Jesus returns, and that human history will eventually collapse into worldwide chaos before Jesus returns, and that therefore there is no need to labor to achieve Great Commission victory worldwide for all men and all nations before Jesus returns

So? So the far fetched imaginative speculation that there will be a future evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist ~ is a notion that is not in the best interest of the Christian church.

[]
 

marke

Well-known member
There Is No Such Thing As A Future The Antichrist.
By JAG
October 5, 2021

(1) Intelligent extraterrestrials have visited Earth. (2) There will be a future The Antichrist. (1) and (2) are in the same category. Both are bald assertions without a shred of credible evidence in support. Its impossible to produce even one (1) Bible verse that says there will be a future The Antichrist. There were/are antichrists (little a, plural) in the world, but there is no such thing as an evil political world ruler, in our future, to be known as The Antichrist ~ try to find a Bible verse that says that.

So where did the notion of a future evil world political ruler come from? It came from unrestrained human imaginations and speculations. By the way, various people who have predicted a future antichrist, are on record in the public square, identifying The Antichrist as being: Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler, Henry Kissinger, Mikhail Gorbachev, Saddam Hussein, Pope John Paul ll, and Yasser Arafat ~ to name just a few of their many proven-wrong prophecies. Further identifications of The Antichrist by these folks have been microchips, bar codes, and zip codes.

Questions: Does the fact that they have been wrong every time they have publicly identified The Antichrist stop them from continuing to make more public identifications? No. And does their long history of being proven wrong cause their students to stop taking them seriously? No. It is difficult to break free from addiction to end times sensational exciting scary fear fiction ~ believing it, stimulates the blood, and stirs up the imagination and large numbers of humans are drawn to that kind of excitement.

Some have speculated that Daniel 7:8's "little horn", and Rev.13:1's "beast", and 2 Thess. 2:3's "man of lawlessness" is somehow connected to John's antichrists (little a, plural). But there is not one (1) single Bible verse in Daniel or in Revelation or in Paul's epistles that is connected in any way whatsoever with John's antichrists. Any alleged connection is nothing more than emotion-based end times dramatic sensational speculation.

The first century was plagued with false teachers. Jesus warned His disciples that "many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many." Matt. 24:5. Jesus also said, "many false prophets will arise and mislead many" Matt. 24:11. And He warned that, "false Christs and false prophets will appear" Matthew 24:24. WHEN did Jesus say ALL this would take place? He said it would ALL take place in the first century. "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened." Matt. 24:34. And it was in this context that John's antichrists were mentioned.
1 John 2:18 - 26
"18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."
Interpretative Analysis Of 1 John 2:18 -26
John's first century readers had heard that antichrists were coming in their time of the first century. John says, "even now many antichrists have come" 1 John 2:18.
John says these first century antichrists "went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us, but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." John's antichrists were first century Christian apostates that were at one time with John and the other Christians of the first century, but who turned against John and against Christ and became antichrists. There is no future evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist anywhere in John's epistles or anywhere else in the Holy Bible.
These first century Christian apostates had denied that Jesus was the Christ and John says "such a person is the antichrist." John is writing this to first century Christians to warn them about these first century antichrists "who are trying to lead you astray." The antichrists (little a, plural) of the first century was an evil false-doctrinal movement and not an individual. "even now many antichrists have come." 1 John 2:18 And this movement was made up of "many deceivers" 2 John 7
1 John 4:1-6
"1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."
Interpretative Analysis Of 1 John 4:1-6
John says "many false prophets have gone out into the world" (of the first century). John identifies these false prophets as "the spirit of antichrist" and says even now they are "already in the world" (of the first century.) Then John says to those first century Christians (who are reading 1 John) that they (there in the first century) have "already overcome" these antichrists because the one who is in them is greater than the one who is in the world. So? So there is no evil political world ruler in our future that will come to be known as The Antichrist ~ a notion that is imaginative speculation unsupported by any credible evidence.

2 John 4 -11
"4It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
7I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work."
Interpretative Analysis of 2 John 4 - 11
John writes to his first century readers that they are to walk in love and he says "I say this because many deceivers . . . have gone out into the world" (of the first century). John says "any such person" is the deceiver and the antichrist. John then tells his first century readers not to welcome these antichrists into their homes. So? So John's antichrists (little a, plural) were first century Christian apostates. The Bible the word of God nowhere says there will be a future evil political world ruler that will become known as The Antichrist, and the notion that there will be such a person is pure fiction with no credible Biblical evidence in support.

___________________

Regarding The Antichrist:
The word antichrist appears only five times in the entire word of God ~ Genesis to Revelation. And none of these verses say a single word about an end time evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist ~ we're dealing here with pure imaginative speculation. Here are the five verses: 1 John 2:18,22 (see 1 John 2:18-26 for context) . . . 1 John 4:3 (see 1 john 4:1-6 for context) . . . 2 John 4:3 (see 2 John 4-11 for context.

John's antichrists are:
(1) not in our future, but in our past (the first century some 2000 years ago)
(2) not one individual, but a multitude (of antichrists-false-teachers who denied that Jesus was the Christ)
(3) not a person but a heresy ~ ( a false-doctrine movement that was active in the first century.)

Many modern end times prophets believe The Antichrist is alive today. One of them in an interview said, "In my personal opinion, he's alive somewhere right now." Compare Tertullian's assertion over 1700 years ago that The Antichrist "is close at hand."

Many modern day prophets have wildly speculated that Paul's "the man of lawlessness" (2Thess.2:1-12) is a reference to The Antichrist. However, there is not a shred of credible evidence in 2 Thess.2:1-12 that connects "the man of lawlessness" to John's "antichrists" (little a, plural). Paul's "the man of lawlessness" is the first century's evil-insane Nero Caesar, who is also John's "the beast" of Revelation 13. For a vigorous argument defending this view, see Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion, pages 386-394 on "the man of lawlessness." See the Subject Index "beast of Revelation" regarding Nero Caesar as Revelation 13's "the beast."

The far fetched speculation that there is to be, in our future, an evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist, is one element in a larger defeatist system of end times eschatological teaching that the Lord Jesus and His Christian Church FAILS to be successful in carrying out The Great Commission to "go and make disciples of all nations." You've heard of JESUS SAVES, well this defeatist eschatological system teaches that JESUS FAILS ~ that the Lord Jesus' command to His Christian Church to "go and make disciples of all nations" FAILS to be successfully carried out, even though Jesus boldly says, "ALL authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. THEREFORE go and make disciples of all nations." (Matthew 28:16-20) JESUS FAILS (His Great Commission fails) sends the message of pessimism and defeatism to both the whole world and worse, to the Christian Church who becomes evangelistically paralyzed when repeatedly told we will FAIL in our God assigned task to evangelize the world. Can you imagine an NFL coach spending several hours before the upcoming football game repeatedly telling his team that there is no possible way they can win. This defeatist pessimistic eschatological system repeatedly tells the Christian Church that we will FAIL to successfully carry out her Lord's Great Commission to make disciples of all nations. So? So this far fetched speculation built around The Antichrist has far reaching ramifications of pessimism and defeatism for the Christian Church. This defeatist eschatological system teaches that the Christian Church will NOT grow to become a worldwide good influence on people and nations before Jesus returns, and that human history will eventually collapse into worldwide chaos before Jesus returns, and that therefore there is no need to labor to achieve Great Commission victory worldwide for all men and all nations before Jesus returns

So? So the far fetched imaginative speculation that there will be a future evil political world ruler that will come to be known as The Antichrist ~ is a notion that is not in the best interest of the Christian church.

[]

Don't be deceived, brethren, the Lord Jesus has not yet returned as He promised, but He will, and these events will also happen before then, although they have not yet happened:

2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

JAG

Active member
Don't be deceived, brethren, the Lord Jesus has not yet returned as He promised, but He will, and these events will also happen before then, although they have not yet happened:

2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Thank you for your comments.

Best Regards.

JAG


``
 

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
I read a few Ken Gentry books several years ago: The Greatness of the Great Commission; The Christian and Alcoholic Beverages; and House Divided (with the late Greg Bahnsen. Man, God took him home way too young).
 
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marke

Well-known member

Thank you for your comments.

Best Regards.

JAG


``
I think Mr. Gentry is wrong. He does not seem to think the great tribulation is something that will take place before the Lord Jesus returns to earth to judge sinners and set up His kingdom. I doubt he understands who the 144,000 sealed Jews are, why they were sealed, or what they were sealed against.

Revelation 7

7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
 

marke

Well-known member
Revelation the last book of the New Testament!
The Book of the Revelation tells us about future events that are yet to take place on earth. There are deceived kings, false prophets, and the beast and the false prophet. I am not sure which of these specifically refers to the man of sin that will be revealed.

Revelation 19

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
 

JAG

Active member
I think Mr. Gentry is wrong. He does not seem to think the great tribulation is something that will take place before the Lord Jesus returns to earth to judge sinners and set up His kingdom. I doubt he understands who the 144,000 sealed Jews are, why they were sealed, or what they were sealed against.

Revelation 7

7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Thank you for your interest in the thread and for your comments.

Generally people who change their views about the Christian future, do so very slowly.

When I write OP's on Christian Eschatology, one of my purposes is to look for people who are looking.

A lot of people are not looking.
And that's okay.

However there are some out there that are looking.
They are looking for a way to actually come to believe, based upon the teachings of the Bible, that
the Christian Church is going to actually be successful in carrying out her Lord Jesus' Great commission to
go and make disciples of all nations.

Postmillennialism correctly teaches that the Christian Church is going to be successful in Christianizing
the world BEFORE Jesus returns . . . however in my opinion, the very best way for the seeker to come
to know that and to believe that is to be willing to spend a few dollars and some time to study the
massive amount of Biblical evidence supporting this victorious Christian eschatology.

If one decides that one does not desire to do that, and wants to stay where he is ~ that is their choice and I respect
that.

Then there are those who after doing their private study, still are unconvinced. We Postmillennialists try to
reach as many as we can ~ but we don't convince everybody.

But we are making steady progress.

In my view, if you are interested in a private study, the very best place to start is here:

Its a very popular book and its not cheap. You'll pay for it. $39.95 Free S/H
About the cost of one meal in a nice restaurant for 2 people.

My view is Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion is well worth the $39.95.

I have bought I think about 5 or 6 copies at that price to give away to family and friends.

I will gladly fan out the filthy lucre to push forward what I am convinced is the message of
victory for Jesus' Christian Church. We really are going to Christianize the world BEFORE
Jesus returns. And Gentry's 600 + page work is a massive argument that presents the
evidence for that PLUS answers all the problem passages that at first glance, appear
to contradict that proposition.

Best Regards.

JAG

``
 

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
My view is Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion is well worth the $39.95.
When I bought that book sometime in the 90s my jacket cover says I paid $19.95 for it. Yikes! Inflation. Another Gentry book I have that I forgot to mention is Before Jerusalem Fell. That was during my theonomic/postmillenial years when I think I read literally everything by Gary North including all of his newsletters. Then I got blown away by The Plot by Bob Enyart which resulted in me dropping postmillenialism but keeping theonomy.
 

Jefferson

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Did you buy into Gary North's Y2K doom-saying?
Yep. And I have an unbelievable confession regarding Y2k.

The world-wide Y2K paranoia was caused by...

Me.

Here's what happened. If memory serves we were well into the year 2000 and there was still no national news about the Y2k bug. Month after month passed, midnight December 31st, 1999 was getting closer and closer and still very few people were talking about it. Just Gary North and his few thousand subscribers to his newsletter. What changed? Well, one night around 3am I'm driving home or to somewhere listening to the late night national Coast to Coast with Art Bell show. I hear Art say, with desperation in his voice, "Does anyone out there know how to get a hold of Gary North? This guy is more difficult to contact than the pope."

Well, I'd been reading everything Gary North wrote since he was in junior highschool practically and somehow was one of the few people who had his email address. I figured the reason Art Bell was wanting to interview him was the Y2K issue although he didn't say so at the time because no one in his audience knew what Y2K was. Almost no one knew what it was. So I emailed Gary with the subject, "Gary, you HAVE to read this."

I told him that Art Bell's national radio show was wanting to interview him.

One week later Gary was interviewed on Art Bell's show and for the very first time Y2K received a national audience. A few days after that interview, BOOM! ABC, NBC, CBS were all over it and the rest is history.

If I would have just not sent that email.

Sorry everyone.

But I partially made up for it by causing the congressional Waco hearings to take place. But that's a different story for a different time. Both of these stories go to show how much influence just one person can have.
 

marke

Well-known member
Thank you for your interest in the thread and for your comments.

Generally people who change their views about the Christian future, do so very slowly.

When I write OP's on Christian Eschatology, one of my purposes is to look for people who are looking.

A lot of people are not looking.
And that's okay.

However there are some out there that are looking.
They are looking for a way to actually come to believe, based upon the teachings of the Bible, that
the Christian Church is going to actually be successful in carrying out her Lord Jesus' Great commission to
go and make disciples of all nations.

Postmillennialism correctly teaches that the Christian Church is going to be successful in Christianizing
the world BEFORE Jesus returns . . . however in my opinion, the very best way for the seeker to come
to know that and to believe that is to be willing to spend a few dollars and some time to study the
massive amount of Biblical evidence supporting this victorious Christian eschatology.

If one decides that one does not desire to do that, and wants to stay where he is ~ that is their choice and I respect
that.

Then there are those who after doing their private study, still are unconvinced. We Postmillennialists try to
reach as many as we can ~ but we don't convince everybody.

But we are making steady progress.

In my view, if you are interested in a private study, the very best place to start is here:

Its a very popular book and its not cheap. You'll pay for it. $39.95 Free S/H
About the cost of one meal in a nice restaurant for 2 people.

My view is Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion is well worth the $39.95.

I have bought I think about 5 or 6 copies at that price to give away to family and friends.

I will gladly fan out the filthy lucre to push forward what I am convinced is the message of
victory for Jesus' Christian Church. We really are going to Christianize the world BEFORE
Jesus returns. And Gentry's 600 + page work is a massive argument that presents the
evidence for that PLUS answers all the problem passages that at first glance, appear
to contradict that proposition.

Best Regards.

JAG

``
I do not see the influence of Christianity increasing in today's world. What I see is an increase of Christians living like the devil and thinking they are pleasing God. Jesus addresses that problem in Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:20-22

King James Version


20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Well,
just what religion still rejects Jesus Christ today as they did since the early church times?

It is not hard to work out is it.

LA
 

JAG

Active member
I do not see the influence of Christianity increasing in today's world. What I see is an increase of Christians living like the devil and thinking they are pleasing God. Jesus addresses that problem in Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:20-22​

King James Version​

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.​

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

It sounds like you're satisfied to stay where you are
with regard to what lies ahead in the Christian future.
Okay.

Best Regards.

JAG
 

User Name

Well-known member
One week later Gary was interviewed on Art Bell's show and for the very first time Y2K received a national audience. A few days after that interview, BOOM! ABC, NBC, CBS were all over it and the rest is history.
I offer you my condolences. Even the lower level computer geeks I spoke with at the time told me the whole Y2K thing was nonsense.

But I partially made up for it by causing the congressional Waco hearings to take place. But that's a different story for a different time. Both of these stories go to show how much influence just one person can have.
I would have thought you'd have been glad that the Wacko from Waco and his wacky followers got whacked.
 

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
I would have thought you'd have been glad that the Wacko from Waco and his wacky followers got whacked.
I'm not suprised at all you adopted the government's narative.

You actually think I believe all leaders of what I think are cults should be executed along with all of their followers?
 

User Name

Well-known member
I'm not suprised at all you adopted the government's narative.

You actually think I believe all leaders of what I think are cults should be executed along with all of their followers?
I don't think that, but isn't there something in the Old Testament somewhere about false prophets and their wicked followers meeting destructive and evil ends?

An eternity of endless horrible tortures in hell would seem like a picnic in comparison with what happened to the Branch Davidians.
 
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