theocracy

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billwald

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From another thread, "I don't know any Christian who supports the US becoming a theocracy."

See www.freebooks.com

Gary North, all Reconstructionists, many leaders of the OPC want the US and the world to be come a theoracy. All Post Tribs.
 

Rolf Ernst

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There is a great difference between theonomy and a theocracy. This nation is unfit to be a theocracy. A true theocracy requires that God Himself identify the nation as His peculiar people.

Those who are anti-Christ delight in false comparisons of theonomists with nations whose leaders are followers of their god who bears no similarity to the God of scripture.

Theonomy maintains the crown rights of King Jesus which means that no earthly power has the right to place upon its people any laws or restrictions which are contrary to the Word of God. That means that all men have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (that is, property rights). This reserve of power is God's, and every person--president as well as peon--is bound by the same law. Theonomists DO NOT BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE REQUIRED TO PAY HOMAGE TO THE GOD OF SCRIPTURE CONTRARY TO THEIR OWN PERSONAL BELIEFS. ALL MEN ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO HIM, BUT NO MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO IN ANYWAY COERCE THE CONSCIENCE OF MEN IN REGARDS TO MATTERS OF FAITH. Coercion in matters of faith is absurd on the face of it, and totally contrary to the directions of
Christ who said in essence, if you come to a city and they don't receive you, shake the dust of that town off your feet; in other words, just depart from it. Leave it alone. THAT IS THE CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE IN REGARDS TO PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS WHO HAVE NO INTEREST IN CHRIST, but Christ haters will never cease their accusations that if this nation became more Christian, they would be in danger of being slaughtered. For some reason, they are unable to grasp the reality that it is those who are against Christ, those who are not willing to live under a system of biblical law who are the murderers; primarily I speak of atheists and arbortionists.

Reconstructionists would not coerce the conscience of any man, but would be willing to live under the same system of laws which all others would live under, and that system is briefly comprehended by the Ten Commandments. Now if you want to murder, commit adultery against your spouse, lie and steal go ahead and stand up against such a system of law. Just be honest enough to ADMIT WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.
 

Granite

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Bull. Reconstructionists are on record saying they'd be more than willing to use coercion and oppression.
 

The Berean

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Re: theocracy

Originally posted by billwald

From another thread, "I don't know any Christian who supports the US becoming a theocracy."

See www.freebooks.com

Gary North, all Reconstructionists, many leaders of the OPC want the US and the world to be come a theoracy. All Post Tribs.

The person said he/she didn't know any christians that want a theocracy. I'm sure this person may not have known about Gary North. I'm sure there some a-fundies that want an atheistic nation as well but I don't know any personally...
 

Rolf Ernst

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Alright, Granite. You say they are on record, so CITE YOUR SOURCES.
I am not saying that it is impossible that some of them may have the floor and a venue to express ERRONEOUS views. The REAL ISSUE, Granite, is what Christ said. Do you dispute His teachings on the matter? His teachings alone carry weight and we will all be judged according to what HE says, not what some misguided dreamer might say. Again, since you say they are on record, publish your sources as widely as you have published your accusation. SOURCES, PLEASE!
 

Granite

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Originally posted by Rolf Ernst

Alright, Granite. You say they are on record, so CITE YOUR SOURCES.
I am not saying that it is impossible that some of them may have the floor and a venue to express ERRONEOUS views. The REAL ISSUE, Granite, is what Christ said. Do you dispute His teachings on the matter? His teachings alone carry weight and we will all be judged according to what HE says, not what some misguided dreamer might say. Again, since you say they are on record, publish your sources as widely as you have published your accusation. SOURCES, PLEASE!

Rolf, I really wish you would settle the heck down.

Remember, I'm not a Christian any longer, so what Christ supposedly said doesn't amount to anything, as far I'm concerned. I am, however, a former Christian Reconstructionist, so believe it or not, I know what I'm talking about.

Dr. Gary North--whom I've met and dined with--said:

"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."
--"The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right" in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture, No. 1 (Spring, 1982), p. 25.

The late RJ Rushdoony said in volume one of his "Institutes":

"The chuch today has fallen prey to the heresy of democracy," to which his estranged son-in-law chimed in: "The proper exegetical principle is this: Mosaic law is still to be inforced, by the church or the State or both, unless there is a specific injunction to the contrary in the New Testament," leaving no doubt that political liberty isn't high on a CR list of priorities.

More to come...
 

billwald

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Can't have a theocracy until God personally takes command, not through someone who hears voices in his head.

I've probably read 5,000 pages of Reconstructionist material and agree with 1010
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
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Originally posted by billwald

I've probably read 5,000 pages of Reconstructionist material and agree with 1010
What about the other 3990?



;)
 

Rolf Ernst

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The reconstruction movement which flourished for awhile is pretty much based in Tyler, tx., I think, and they have dwindled in numbers primarily, I think, because the christian community was disagreeing with certain of their stances.

Christ haters will do all they can to label every wrong-headed idea as typical of Christianity, but as I have already said, the ONLY guideline for what christianity consists of is Christ Himself; and He is the one every christ hater will have to deal with--not the reconstructionists.
Every liar against Him will eventually be scrutinized by Christ who will be looking down upon him from the Great White Throne.

I recommend that all those whose intent is to cast aspersions upon Christ wake up long enough to realize the the One whom they accuse is the same one who will cast men into the pit.

Do you have accusations against Christ? Maybe you should consider your own moral estate before attacking the judge of all.
 

Mr. 5020

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Originally posted by Rolf Ernst

The reconstruction movement which flourished for awhile is pretty much based in Tyler, tx., I think, and they have dwindled in numbers primarily, I think, because the christian community was disagreeing with certain of their stances.
Yeah, heresy'll do that.
 

billwald

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Heard a guy on NPR who claimed that Bush is controlled by Reconstructionists. One must admit that he wants to control the world.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by billwald

Heard a guy on NPR who claimed that Bush is controlled by Reconstructionists. One must admit that he wants to control the world.
Could be...

"As Kevin Philips observes, many of the Christian leaders with whom Bush has been associating are connected to a large and influential movement known as Christian Reconstructionism or Dominion Theology. For example, at the 2001 Inaugural Prayer Service at the National Cathedral, Bush chose Reverend Jack Hayford to give the benediction. A charismatic preacher involved with the founding of the "Promise Keepers" men's movement, Hayford is also an important supporter of Christian Reconstructionism.[27] Inspired by Dutch-born theologian Cornelius Van Til and his American student Rousas Rushdoony, Dominion Theology is based on the belief that all human behavior is inherently religious and that Christian law should infuse every aspect of social life. The movement has been controversial for its strong political agenda, which calls for the dominance of the Church in political affairs and the creation of a single kingdom ruled by Christian leaders. According to Rushdoony's institute, the Chalcedon Foundation, "God's law is the divine pattern of sanctification in every area of life…The role of every earthly government—including family government, church government, school government, vocational government, and civil government—is to submit to Biblical law.”[28]As a form of postmillennialism, Dominion Theology teaches that the creation of a Christian society here on earth is necessary before the final return of Christ and the new millennium. " -

from RELIGION AND SECRECY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION
The Gentleman, the Prince, and the Simulacrum
by Hugh Urban
Ohio State University


And of course there's Bush's recent appointment of Reconstructionist Claude Allen as his domestic policy adivsor.

"President Bush announced that he has appointed Claude Allen, who served as an aide to former Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, to be his new domestic policy advisor. Allen, whose appointment to the federal Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals was twice blocked by Democratic filibusters, is the Deputy Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services where he has served since 2001.

Allen is a staunch opponent of abortion rights. As Virginia’s top health administrator, Allen helped draft the state’s parental notification law and supported a law imposing a 24 hour waiting period and requiring biased information be given to women seeking abortions. In his most recent position at HHS, Allen supported expanding the federal CHIP program to cover fetuses (but not pregnant women) and backed the Bush Administration's decision to remove information about condom effectiveness and teen pregnancy prevention from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) website.

During Helms’ 1984 reelection campaign, the Los Angeles Times reports that Allen accused Helms’ opponent James Hunt, who was serving at the time as the Governor of North Carolina, of having ties to "radical feminists" and "queers," as well as socialists and labor unions. Allen later said he was not referring to gay people, rather Hunt’s "odd" campaign staff."

Abortion Opponent to Serve as Bush's Domestic Policy Advisor

"Besides the single-minded careerism undergirding Allen's racist apologia and homophobia, archconservative theology has had an obvious impact on his political views. So perhaps it is no wonder that he has linked up with some of the most hardcore elements of the Christian right. For instance, on at least on one occasion, Allen has keynoted a gathering hosted by the Rutherford Institute, a legal foundation inspired by Christian Reconstructionist leader RJ Rushdoony, who advocated putting the US under control of biblical law, which would mean executing gays, abortion doctors, pagans, witches and disobedient children, among other heathens. "
Who is Claude Allen Anyway?
By Max Blumenthal
 
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servent101

New member
Zakath
Deputy Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services

They really need to separate these two departments - you cannot expect people to turn a blind eye to the poor, letting them die, and not allowing any statistics to determine how many people in America die of poverty related issues, and have the same people in charge of the hospitals,

In Canada the Department of Health does keep statistics of deaths of people in hospital due to what is called doctor fatigue - ten to twenty thousand people die in Canada each year because the doctors are too tired to do their job properly. The department of health lets the hospitals force each and every person receiving treatment in hospital to sign a disclaimer stating they will not sue if the doctor makes gross error. They do not let anyone know how bad the treatment in hospital is, it is like a clan.

Our culture started with the poor, and now it is the sick that will pay the toll, soon the elderly, and it is the same government department that is in charge of everyone's health. They really need to separate the way they have evolved treating the poor, for they are treating the sick and elderly the same way. At least in Canada anyways.

With Christ's Love

Servent101
 

billwald

New member
Govt people tend to lie with statistics. For example, if anyone every smoked they claim the person died from smoking related diseases even if they got hit by a bus.
 

Jefferson

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Originally posted by granite1010

Bull. Reconstructionists are on record saying they'd be more than willing to use coercion and oppression.
All governments use coercion and oppression to enforce their laws. Just try not paying your taxes in the United States and see what happens to you. Why should a government that is based on the Bible be held to a double standard?
 

Granite

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Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Jefferson

All governments use coercion and oppression to enforce their laws. Just try not paying your taxes in the United States and see what happens to you. Why should a government that is based on the Bible be held to a double standard?

Few stone and flog their opponents.
 

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Originally posted by granite1010

Few stone and flog their opponents.
You are referring to Israel's theocracy. That's not what we are in favor of. We are in favor of an Acts 9 dispensational Bibliocracy which gives men the freedom to either accept or reject Jesus Christ without which freedom salvation itself would not be possible.
 

Granite

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Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Jefferson

You are referring to Israel's theocracy. That's not what we are in favor of. We are in favor of an Acts 9 dispensational Bibliocracy which gives men the freedom to either accept or reject Jesus Christ without which freedom salvation itself would not be possible.

So this is the Christian buffet, Do-It-Yourself-type of Christian Reconstructionism. Uh-huuuuuh.:rolleyes:

Cherrypickers like you, Enyart, and the rest of the brownshirts do an injustice to North and company, who at least have dedicated serious time and scholarship to their convictions.

This whole accepting or rejecting Jesus thing is what Americans are doing already, last time I checked. Maybe you should define "bibliocracy." Somehow I don't think it's a form of government based on books.
 
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