The "without cause" hermeneutic.

[Nathon Detroit]

Why is OK to harshly rebuke some folks yet it's not OK to harshly rebuke other folks? Why does the Bible instruct us to rebuke with all authority yet also instruct us to "avoid foolish disputes"? And why does God tell us that the fruit of the Spirit is "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness", yet He also tells us we should abhor what is evil?

I think the key to understanding this is the phrase... "without cause".

We shouldn't rebuke, condemn, argue, or otherwise divide WITHOUT CAUSE.

Yes, folks it's the "without cause" hermeneutic.

Matthew 5:22 “But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Yet if there is cause...

Luke 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

1Timothy 5:20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,

Titus 2:15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. ​

 

[Lighthouse]

:thumb:

 

[Sozo]

I've been told that insulting someone for their outright contradiction of the truth is being a "bad witness". If that's true, then Jesus was a horrible witness to the Pharisees.

 

[Delmar]

yup!

 

[Maximeee]

Awesome! Gotta love those hermeneutics..

 

[CabinetMaker]

Why is OK to harshly rebuke some folks yet it's not OK to harshly rebuke other folks? Why does the Bible instruct us to rebuke with all authority yet also instruct us to "avoid foolish disputes"? And why does God tell us that the fruit of the Spirit is "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness", yet He also tells us we should abhor what is evil?

I think the key to understanding this is the phrase... "without cause".

We shouldn't rebuke, condemn, argue, or otherwise divide WITHOUT CAUSE.

Yes, folks it's the "without cause" hermeneutic.

Matthew 5:22 “But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Yet if there is cause...

Luke 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

1Timothy 5:20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,

Titus 2:15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. ​

Who are we supposed to rebuke, all men our our brother in Christ? Most of those verses are directed at believers to rebuke believers.

When dealing with a non-believer is the only thing we are to do is rebuke them? Not according to 2Timothy 4:2.

The recent thread started by Persephone66 is a classic example of rebuke. A great many believers jumped right in a rebuked the hell out of him for being gay. Did all that rebuke have the desired intent? Depends on what the intent was. If it was to drive Presephone66 further away from Christ then it was spot on. If was intended to soften his heart and make him more willing to truly hear what God has to say then it fail miserably.

I have been here long enough to know the Presephne66 intentions for starting the thread are more than likely aimed at gaining ammunition to prove how mean and hateful Christians are. I would think we played right into his hands. If he did start the thread for that purpose, so what. Remember 2Timothy 4:2? Where is our example of convincing and exhorting and longsuffering in sharing the Gospel with him? Is he unsalable because he is gay? No. Is it our job to stop him from sinning before he can come to Christ? No.

Look at Christ's rebuking of the Pharisees. It was harsh and very confrontational. Why? Because they were teachers and they were not teach God's law as it was intended. They needed a harsh rebuking. He called them hypocrites and that was a very harsh thing to say at that time. Christ used the word not so much as an insult but as a accurate description of the Pharisees. Now look at the woman at the well. Did Jesus firmly rebuke her? Yes. Did he use epitaphs and insults when He rebuked her. No. Why? He knew they would serve no purpose. To be Christian is to be Christ like.

Yes, we are to rebuke eachother and unbelievers as well. But if rebuke is the onlytool you have to reach people for Christ, then you are a very shallow Christian. To be Christian is to be Christ like.

 

[Sozo]

In the case of this website, it does not take a great deal of discernment to determine who is here to hear the truth and who is here to promote wickedness. Persophone is here to flaunt his perversion. If it were not so, we would be as in the dark about it as he claims his students are.

 

[Lighthouse]

Who are we supposed to rebuke, all men our our brother in Christ? Most of those verses are directed at believers to rebuke believers.

When dealing with a non-believer is the only thing we are to do is rebuke them? Not according to 2Timothy 4:2.

The recent thread started by Persephone66 is a classic example of rebuke. A great many believers jumped right in a rebuked the hell out of him for being gay. Did all that rebuke have the desired intent? Depends on what the intent was. If it was to drive Presephone66 further away from Christ then it was spot on. If was intended to soften his heart and make him more willing to truly hear what God has to say then it fail miserably.

I have been here long enough to know the Presephne66 intentions for starting the thread are more than likely aimed at gaining ammunition to prove how mean and hateful Christians are. I would think we played right into his hands. If he did start the thread for that purpose, so what. Remember 2Timothy 4:2? Where is our example of convincing and exhorting and longsuffering in sharing the Gospel with him? Is he unsalable because he is gay? No. Is it our job to stop him from sinning before he can come to Christ? No.

Look at Christ's rebuking of the Pharisees. It was harsh and very confrontational. Why? Because they were teachers and they were not teach God's law as it was intended. They needed a harsh rebuking. He called them hypocrites and that was a very harsh thing to say at that time. Christ used the word not so much as an insult but as a accurate description of the Pharisees. Now look at the woman at the well. Did Jesus firmly rebuke her? Yes. Did he use epitaphs and insults when He rebuked her. No. Why? He knew they would serve no purpose. To be Christian is to be Christ like.

Yes, we are to rebuke eachother and unbelievers as well. But if rebuke is the onlytool you have to reach people for Christ, then you are a very shallow Christian. To be Christian is to be Christ like.

I think the word you're looking for is "epithets." Epitaphs are what is written on tombstones.

And, just because Jesus didn't say the exact word, he practically called her an adulteress and a slut.

And if you think rebuking is merely calling names, or being harsh and insulting, then you need to open a dictionary. Yes, it includes calling wicked people, "wicked." But it also includes telling them how to escape wickedness.

 

[CabinetMaker]

In the case of this website, it does not take a great deal of discernment to determine who is here to hear the truth and who is here to promote wickedness. Persophone is here to flaunt his perversion. If it were not so, we would be as in the dark about it as he claims his students are.

So you think that makes it okay to "throw him away"? I know that most of the non-believers here are here just to taunt believers. As believers, we are held to a standard. Whenever we have a chance, no matter how slim we judge it to be, we should share the Gospel by what ever means necessary to get unbelievers t listen. If that means rebuke then rebuke. If that means stifling your personal opinions about a chosen life stile, then still them.

God wants us to win souls for Him, not make peoples hearts so hard against God that they will never listen.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I think the word you're looking for is "epithets." Epitaphs are what is written on tombstones.

Well, ya, that was the word I was looking for.

And, just because Jesus didn't say the exact word, he practically called her an adulteress and a slut.

But He never used the word. He made clear to her that she was a big time sinner but He did it without insulting her.

And if you think rebuking is merely calling names, or being harsh and insulting, then you need to open a dictionary. Yes, it includes calling wicked people, "wicked." But it also includes telling them how to escape wickedness.

I see lots of the first and very very little of the latter.

 

[Lighthouse]

But He never used the word. He made clear to her that she was a big time sinner but He did it without insulting her.

That's because she accepted Him, immediately.

I see lots of the first and very very little of the latter.

Then you need to pay closer attention.

 

[Sozo]

So you think that makes it okay to "throw him away"?

At this point there are really two options: You either remove him from the opportunity to flaunt what he does, or you continue to rebuke him in the presence of everyone else so that they will know that what he doea is unacceptable behavior.

God wants us to win souls for Him, not make peoples hearts so hard against God that they will never listen.

People harden their own hearts. There are examples of people on this site who have turned from their wickedness or false beliefs because they had a heart that hungered for truth.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That's because she accepted Him, immediately.

So you think Christ would resort to insults if people don't listen to Him? I beg to differ.

Then you need to pay closer attention.

I pay VERY close attention. It is rare.

 

[CabinetMaker]

At this point there are really two options: You either remove him from the opportunity to flaunt what he does, or you continue to rebuke him in the presence of everyone else so that they will know that what he doea is unacceptable behavior.

You cannot remove him from anyplace and rebukes don't work. In fact, the have the opposite effect of what you intend. A definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. Time to change tactics.

People harden their own hearts. There are examples of people on this site who have turned from their wickedness or false beliefs because they had a heart that hungered for truth.

You don't think that nut job Phelps hardens peoples harts against God?! Of course he does! People point to him as the classic example of the judgmental, mean spirited, hateful Christian. Why would anybody want to be like him? Thats what I mean by hardening peoples hearts. All people see is Christians talking about how loving their God is followed immediately by how God wants this or that group of people dead. Where is the hope in that?

The only message the media is reporting from the Christian community is how hateful and judgmental Christians are? Why? That seems to be the only message we are putting out. TBN shows the world Christians as nothing but greedy twits. Pat Robertson portrays Christians as lunatics.

 

[Sozo]

You cannot remove him from anyplace and rebukes don't work.

Rebukes do work. You are wrong. You just think that because you have not seen the desired results on him that someone is doing something wrong. That's just foolish, and a bit self-righteous. Plus, he certainly can be removed from this site. I should know.

You don't think that nut job Phelps hardens peoples harts against God?! Of course he does! People point to him as the classic example of the judgmental, mean spirited, hateful Christian.

So? There has always been people like him and people still come to Christ. You seem to have some kind of hyper-pragmatic view of life.

All people see is Christians talking about how loving their God is followed immediately by how God wants this or that group of people dead.

God wants those who commit capital crimes to be punished by the death, so that people will fear that punishment and either not do those things or repent if they are.

You still lack a basic understanding between the gospel and government. They do not mix, but they are both ordained of God.

 

[eveningsky339]

I've been told that insulting someone for their outright contradiction of the truth is being a "bad witness". If that's true, then Jesus was a horrible witness to the Pharisees.

When people who knew the law well and acted as God's representatives, such as the pharisees, erred in their ways, Jesus rebuked them harshly.

If Jesus encountered a sinful individual who had no knowledge of the law, He was much more gentle.

 

[Cracked]

When people who knew the law well and acted as God's representatives, such as the pharisees, erred in their ways, Jesus rebuked them harshly.

If Jesus encountered a sinful individual who had no knowledge of the law, He was much more gentle.

Quoted for truth, overall. Jesus did ask folks who were sinners to do some difficult things however (sell all you have, sin no more, dead bury dead, etc.) He saved the butt-kickin' for those who consider themselves holy.

 

[Lighthouse]

So you think Christ would resort to insults if people don't listen to Him? I beg to differ.

Not only do I think He would, I know He would. Because He did.

I pay VERY close attention. It is rare.

:yawn:

 

[Lighthouse]

A definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result.

What makes you think we're hoping for a different result? Do you think god was hoping for a different result each time He sent a plague upon Egypt?

You don't think that nut job Phelps hardens peoples harts against God?!

People harden their own hearts. And Phelps is one of those people. He has no effect on people because his own heart is hard.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Not only do I think He would, I know He would. Because He did.


:yawn:

Reference please.