The Way That Seems Right Unto A Man

[jamie]

Future event.

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:16-17)​

 

[Robert Pate]

None of that really matters, though, un less the "they" in this case, is YOU. But of course you are assuming that it isn't. Which is exactly what "they" are doing.

Maybe that is why Paul said, "Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith".

 

[PureX]

Maybe that is why Paul said, "Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith".

Yes, but that's another mostly meaningless quote in that everyone thinks their religious beliefs are the truth of God. So that upon self-examination, they will inevitably conclude that they are "in the faith". How could it be otherwise when they are determining what being in the faith, means?

And what do you think Paul means here by "in the faith"? Of course he means that everyone else should believe as he believes, because he, of course, assumes that his beliefs are the truth of God. (Just like everyone else does.) Such that "faith" becomes self-refrencing, and therefor, inevitably self-righteous.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, but that's another mostly meaningless quote in that everyone thinks their religious beliefs are the truth of God. So that upon self-examination, they will inevitably conclude that they are "in the faith". How could it be otherwise when they are determining what being in the faith, means?

And what do you think Paul means here by "in the faith"? Of course he means that everyone else should believe as he believes, because he, of course, assumes that his beliefs are the truth of God. (Just like everyone else does.) Such that "faith" becomes self-refrencing, and therefor, inevitably self-righteous.

There are evidences of the Holy Spirit that determine if one is in the faith. John encourages us to try the Spirits to see if they be of God, 1 John 4:1.

 

[PureX]

There are evidences of the Holy Spirit that determine if one is in the faith. John encourages us to try the Spirits to see if they be of God, 1 John 4:1.

That's actually good advice, but it can also be misconstrued by our own bias.

I have always encouraged Christians to test their faith not against bible quotes or religious dogmas, but against the healing power of love and forgiveness, and of kindness and generosity. If what we believe, and what we do, manifest that healing power (both within ourselves and to others) then we are "in the Spirit",and therefor "in the faith". Because that what faith is: embodying those attributes of God's love/Christ.

Unfortunately, few listen. They would much prefer to be told what to think and do by religious authorities that are no more spiritually based than they are.

 

[Robert Pate]

That's actually good advice, but it can also be misconstrued by our own bias.

I have always encouraged Christians to test their faith not against bible quotes or religious dogmas, but against the healing power of love and forgiveness, and of kindness and generosity. If what we believe, and what we do, manifest that healing power (both within ourselves and to others) then we are "in the Spirit",and therefor "in the faith". Because that what faith is: embodying those attributes of God's love/Christ.

Unfortunately, few listen. They would much prefer to be told what to think and do by religious authorities that are no more spiritually based than they are.

Trouble with that is that there are some cultist that can out shine most Christians because they believe that they are saved by their works. I have known some very sweet Gospel rejecting people that appear to be Christians, but are not.

Evidence of the Holy Spirit is that the Christian is Christ and Gospel centered, John 15:26.

 

[PureX]

Trouble with that is that there are some cultist that can out shine most Christians because they believe that they are saved by their works. I have known some very sweet Gospel rejecting people that appear to be Christians, but are not.

Well, I'd far rather meet the Christians that think they are saved by doing good works than the nasty, mean-spirited Christians that think they are saved by reciting 'magical' religious proclamations, and then continue to live like fascist pigs.

Also, who is and who isn't a Christian isn't really any of our business, is it? Our business is to embody the healing power of God's love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. So that others can experience it in their reality, through us, and understand it in their hearts and minds, and then hopefully choose to do likewise. Who does or doesn't is not up to us. And is not within our place or ability to judge.

 

[Robert Pate]

Well, I'd far rather meet the Christians that think they are saved by doing good works than the nasty, mean-spirited Christians that think they are saved by reciting 'magical' religious proclamations, and then continue to live like fascist pigs.

Also, who is and who isn't a Christian isn't really any of our business, is it? Our business is to embody the healing power of God's love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. So that others can experience it in their reality, through us, and understand it in their hearts and minds, and then hopefully choose to do likewise. Who does or doesn't is not up to us. And is not within our place or ability to judge.

The look at me doctrine is not a good idea. Remember that Paul professed that he was "The Chief of Sinners". The whole idea in witnessing is to bring the unbeliever to something that is totally and completely outside of himself who can forgive his sins. Paul said, "We don't preach ourselves" we preach Jesus Christ.

 

[PureX]

The look at me doctrine is not a good idea. Remember that Paul professed that he was "The Chief of Sinners". The whole idea in witnessing is to bring the unbeliever to something that is totally and completely outside of himself who can forgive his sins. Paul said, "We don't preach ourselves" we preach Jesus Christ.

No one is suggesting that we "preach ourselves". And yet every preacher does exactly that. Because every preacher is preaching his own beliefs to others, whether he invented them himself, or borrowed them from someone else. Which is exactly why we should not be measuring ourselves by what we preach or following other preachers like the blind following the blind. But instead, by the effects of what we do in the world and the people around us.

 

[Robert Pate]

No one is suggesting that we "preach ourselves". And yet every preacher does exactly that. Because every preacher is preaching his own beliefs to others, whether he invented them himself, or borrowed them from someone else. Which is exactly why we should not be measuring ourselves by what we preach or following other preachers like the blind following the blind. But instead, by the effects of what we do in the world and the people around us.

No doubt about it, we can have an influence on others by the way that we live.
But how we live is not the message that we are called to preach.

 

[PureX]

No doubt about it, we can have an influence on others by the way that we live.
But how we live is not the message that we are called to preach.

Any message that does not effect how we live, for the better, is just empty babble, or worse, is encouraging evil.

 

[Robert Pate]

Any message that does not effect how we live, for the better, is just empty babble, or worse, is encouraging evil.

The Gospel of the changed life is more Catholic than it is Christian.

All who hear and believe the Gospel are born again. It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that changes his life and makes him a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

It is all of God.