ECT The Value of Righteousness

Cross Reference

New member
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
. . . . . . . . Romans 3:10-11 (KJV)


However, Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn."

Hmmm? Something doesn't add up when discussing issue of mans righteousness, correct?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
. . . . . . . . Romans 3:10-11 (KJV)


However, Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn."

Hmmm? Something doesn't add up when discussing issue of mans righteousness, correct?

I've found there is a problem trying to make such direct comparisons across Testamental borders. Witness the following similar (apparent) conundra (wink) :

Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Exodus 23:7

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:4-5

And what about this one :

When a man's ways please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
Proverbs 16:7

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2 Timothy 3:12

Clearly, the expressions of Moses and Solomon present difficulty when one tries to reconcile them with the letters of Paul. But the first supposed conflict looks even to hold the key to the verses you quoted. Not only does God justify the ungodly, but they are credited with righteousness! Both literally in conflict with readings of passages in the OT. But isn't the understanding of righteousness at issue? So if there are none righteous yet the OT assumes some righteousness, can it not be that the standards being used are different?

When the rich young ruler went to Jesus and called Him good, Jesus questioned his use of the term and said that none were good but God. He proceeded to show that he had fulfilled the commandments handed down through Moses - but Jesus made it clear that the man's righteousness wasn't sufficient to win him eternal life. But what of a ruler? What is considered righteousness in that case? If a man rules fairly, with justice in mind and with mercy toward all, is he not a righteous ruler? But does that mean he will be granted eternal life because of that righteousness? David is called righteous by his son (I Kings 3:6) but was clearly guilty of some serious sin. Paul even quotes this same David :

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 4:6-8

And this is right after he cites Abraham being justified by faith - that righteousness was imputed to him by faith. And it is made crystal clear that they who try to justify themselves (before God) according to their own deeds (righteousness) have only the law by which to call themselves righteous. They make faith of none effect :

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 4:13-16

So it all depends on the standard you use. Man's standard? Sure...there are quite a few righteous men (and good rulers). But by God's standard? None are righteous according to the Law.

EDIT : Not sure why, but I totally forgot to include that verse in Jeremiah having something to do with our righteousnesses and filthy rags...
 

revpete

New member
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
. . . . . . . . Romans 3:10-11 (KJV)


However, Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn."

Hmmm? Something doesn't add up when discussing issue of mans righteousness, correct?

I think that there's a certain morality in man's righteousness but of course it has no value in God's sight. However, when we have moral leadership, Biblical example could be Artaxerxes in the time of Nehemiah, who was possessed of a certain moral righteousness and gave leave for Nehemiah to return Ch 1:6. All in the Sovereignty of God of course.

The verse you quote from Romans is part of Paul's argument as he shows that not one can claim to be righteous Jew or Gentile in God's sight. You have two sorts of righteousness in view here. However, I think you knew that. 😉

Pete 👤
 

Cross Reference

New member
I think that there's a certain morality in man's righteousness but of course it has no value in God's sight. However, when we have moral leadership, Biblical example could be Artaxerxes in the time of Nehemiah, who was possessed of a certain moral righteousness and gave leave for Nehemiah to return Ch 1:6. All in the Sovereignty of God of course.

The verse you quote from Romans is part of Paul's argument as he shows that not one can claim to be righteous Jew or Gentile in God's sight. You have two sorts of righteousness in view here. However, I think you knew that. ��

Pete ��

Why do you suppose it has "no value in God's sight"? Why believe that? AND Paul's argument?? It wasn't his argument at all but something he was referring to he was using to make his point.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
. . . . . . . . Romans 3:10-11 (KJV)


However, Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn."

Hmmm? Something doesn't add up when discussing issue of mans righteousness, correct?


Hi and we have seen for the last 8 years , have we not !!

It seems like not to many MOURNERS but many free loaders !!

dan p
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
I believe all righteousness comes from God through Christ by the Holy Spirit.

"and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith" (Philippians 3:9).

The law was to make man aware of sin. Many Jews believed they could obey the law on their own. Not possible. Only Christ could fulfill the law as He was sinless.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
. . . . . . . . Romans 3:10-11 (KJV)


However, Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn."

Hmmm? Something doesn't add up when discussing issue of mans righteousness, correct?

Proverbs was written to the House of Israel, and Romans was written
to the Body of Christ. Paul, the Apostle to the gentiles wrote Romans.

It's very important to "Rightly Divide" the word of God.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
. . . . . . . . Romans 3:10-11 (KJV)


However, Proverbs 29:2 says, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn."

Hmmm? Something doesn't add up when discussing issue of mans righteousness, correct?

The passage in Romans is talking about unbelievers....the fool who has said in his heart there is no God.

Paul is quoting from the Psalms. From the beginning, believers (my people) are known as the righteous, and unbelievers as fools, the wicked, and workers of iniquity.

Psalm 14:1-5
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord. There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.​
 

Cross Reference

New member
Why don't you all try something different by sticking to the OP and explain how it is that people can be righteous absent the new birth and unrighteous while being indwelt through disobedience:

From OT:

"If the righteous is repaid on earth, how much more the wicked and the sinner!" Proverbs 11:31 (ESV)


And

"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die." Ezekiel 18:24 (ESV)


Now, Peter here speaking of the born again sealed by the promise, doing the ungodly thing in their ranks:

"For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And *“If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
1 Peter 4:17-18 (ESV)

*Notice here that Peter quoted the OT just like Paul did to make his point.
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
Why don't you all try something different by sticking to the OP and explain how it is that people can be righteous absent the new birth and unrighteous while being indwelt through disobedience...

It is obvious they can't.

"...righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.." (Romans 3:22).
 

Cross Reference

New member
It is obvious they can't.

"...righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.." (Romans 3:22).

Yes and having such faith in Him tested from time to time is what becoming as Jesus, is all about. Point is, the OT saints, after having their faith tested, died with but the promise because their righteousness, because they believed for a righteous God, though good enough to find favor with Him, was not good enough to cancel out Adam's transgression which kept them in bondage to separation from God upon their mortal death. Jesus broke that bondage, the power of death, because He was qualified to do so.
 
Top