The Trinity

The Trinity


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keypurr

Well-known member
You could not be more WRONG!



1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)



1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—



2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—



Jesus is ETERNAL! He was from the beginning. Get it right here or you will always be confused thinking that He may be created. He is not created, He is ETERNAL!


Jesus was BORN in Bethlehem, do we agree on that?

1 John1-2 speaks of the spirit that created the world, it was in Jesus. The flesh son held the spirit son.

Jesus was not eternal from the beginning for God is not a man, he is a spirit. Jesus is a man.

If Jesus is the IMAGE of God he has to be a creation, you need a subject to be an image of it BR. Think about that my friend. The express image, not Jesus, was with God at the beginning. God used this image, his spirit son, to create everything. Only the Father is eternal for one the Father is the true God.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
You are biblically illiterate. You like Keypurr refuse to believe the truth of the bible. You are snared by the heresy of unitarianism. Jude 4 speaks of those like you.


Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.​


Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness refers to antinomianism that comes from believing in OSAS.
I do not believe in OSAS, do you?

Denying the only Lord God?
God is my Lord, and I do not deny that.

Denying our Lord Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ is also my Lord, and I do not deny that, either.

God is the Lord of my Lord Jesus Christ, as it is written:

1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.​


Do you believe that the head of Christ is God?
Or are you still denying that the head of Christ is God?
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You have a lot to learn friend. Jesus did not come down from heaven. The true son is a spirit like his father. The EXPRESS image of God and he was given powers you can not imgine he has. Man did not create the Universe, the spirit of God did. God created all things through this spirit. The spirit son came down to dwell in the body prepared for him in Heb 10:5. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing. Your theology is shallow church theology, go deeper RD. The Lamb of God needed to be a man. Jesus was that man. But God sent his true son to live and speak through him.

Then where was He before He became flesh friend

John 1:14 English Standard Version (ESV)

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

You have yet to have been able to put the pieces of the bible together into a coherent whole. Start with this. What does it tell you?

Genesis 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
 

keypurr

Well-known member
My point concerned the firstborn of the dead. Keypurr believes Christ was created because scripture says he is the firstborn.


No, I believe he is a creation because he is the expressIMAGE of the Father. ALL IMAGES are creations. Also Col 1:15 say he is a creature. All things were made by God through this spiritual son on God. He is firstborn of all creation/creatures.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame

Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.​


Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness refers to antinomianism that comes from believing in OSAS.
I do not believe in OSAS, do you?

Denying the only Lord God?
God is my Lord, and I do not deny that.

Denying our Lord Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ is also my Lord, and I do not deny that, either.

God is the Lord of my Lord Jesus Christ, as it is written:

1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.​


Do you believe that the head of Christ is God?
Or are you still denying that the head of Christ is God?

Christ is God. You do not believe 1 John 1:1-2 which clearly states the eternality of the Lord. You are a non-believer. You believe that there are untruths in the scriptures.
 

Bright Raven

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
No sir, and it's sad so many are letting themselves be taken to the spiritual cleaners.:devil:

There are verses in the New Testament which might appear to support the traditional doctrine of the trinity, but good research in the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine has brought me and many others to the conviction that "the case for the trinity rests on questionable treatment of the biblical documents" (stated by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting in their interesting book, The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound).

The case for the trinity "ignores the massive evidence for unitary monotheism--the belief in one God as a single person, the Father of Jesus Christ--and relies heavily on inference from a few select verses." It isolates certain texts and forgets that their context is the whole of Scripture.

Doctrines must be built upon plain, straightforward texts. After much research by a number of Biblical experts, many of them now admit that the trinity doctrine cannot be documented in the Bible, and is truly a distortion of Bible teachings. It is my desire, and that of other non-trinitarians, that people will examine the evidence that counters the trinity doctrine with an open mind.

Church historians have recorded that believers in God as a single person were "at the beginning of the third century still the large majority." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol.23, p.963)

Present-day fundamental Christianity claims to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the authority of Christ, and yet they have never come to believe in a statement made by Christ himself that summed up his feeling & knowledge of his Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." (John 17:3) Are they totally insensitive to the warning issued by Jesus when he said, "In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men"? (Matthew 15:9) Have they fallen under the spell of theological leaders, mainly from the 2nd to the 5th century, when they allowed their Greek philosophy backgrounds to corrupt the Hebrew thought which formed the basis of the young Christian church?

Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament offer evidence for the doctrine of the trinity. A person can establish this fact by a careful, open-minded examination of the Biblical writings. There is no passage of Scripture that asserts that God is three, no authentic verse which claims that the one God is three persons, three spirits, three divine infinite minds, or three anything. Any claim that there are three who make up the Deity must be based on inference, rather than plain statements. The trinitarian concept relies on often tortured logic which lacks solid support in the earliest Christian writings.

:think:
Figure out who Jesus is first. Then let's talk about the Trinity.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Christ is God. . . . You believe that there are untruths in the scriptures.


1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.​


So, why are you are claiming that this verse is an untruth?
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Then where was He before He became flesh friend



John 1:14 English Standard Version (ESV)



14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.



You have yet to have been able to put the pieces of the bible together into a coherent whole. Start with this. What does it tell you?



Genesis 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)



1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.



John 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)



1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.





1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)



1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—


The WORD is the spiritual son of God, the express image of God. God is not flesh, God is a spirit. You fail to understand that the express image of a spirit is another spirit, not a man. This spirit was sent to be in The body God prepared for him. God needed a perfect body to hold the godlike spirit to act and speak for him. The WORD was dwelling in the man Jesus, jesus was flesh, he did not need to become flesh. The spirit however needed to dwell in a body to become flesh. The Lamb of God is flesh.

Come out of the darkness brother, Christ is knocking on your door.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame

1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.​


So, why are you are claiming that this verse is an untruth?

I'm not. You have claimed that 1 John 1:1-2 are. You do not believe in the eternality of Jesus.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
No sir, and it's sad so many are letting themselves be taken to the spiritual cleaners.:devil:

There are verses in the New Testament which might appear to support the traditional doctrine of the trinity, but good research in the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine has brought me and many others to the conviction that "the case for the trinity rests on questionable treatment of the biblical documents" (stated by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting in their interesting book, The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound).

The case for the trinity "ignores the massive evidence for unitary monotheism--the belief in one God as a single person, the Father of Jesus Christ--and relies heavily on inference from a few select verses." It isolates certain texts and forgets that their context is the whole of Scripture.

Doctrines must be built upon plain, straightforward texts. After much research by a number of Biblical experts, many of them now admit that the trinity doctrine cannot be documented in the Bible, and is truly a distortion of Bible teachings. It is my desire, and that of other non-trinitarians, that people will examine the evidence that counters the trinity doctrine with an open mind.

Church historians have recorded that believers in God as a single person were "at the beginning of the third century still the large majority." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol.23, p.963)

Present-day fundamental Christianity claims to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the authority of Christ, and yet they have never come to believe in a statement made by Christ himself that summed up his feeling & knowledge of his Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." (John 17:3) Are they totally insensitive to the warning issued by Jesus when he said, "In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men"? (Matthew 15:9) Have they fallen under the spell of theological leaders, mainly from the 2nd to the 5th century, when they allowed their Greek philosophy backgrounds to corrupt the Hebrew thought which formed the basis of the young Christian church?

Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament offer evidence for the doctrine of the trinity. A person can establish this fact by a careful, open-minded examination of the Biblical writings. There is no passage of Scripture that asserts that God is three, no authentic verse which claims that the one God is three persons, three spirits, three divine infinite minds, or three anything. Any claim that there are three who make up the Deity must be based on inference, rather than plain statements. The trinitarian concept relies on often tortured logic which lacks solid support in the earliest Christian writings.

:think:
The NASB Bible contains 807,361 words.
Of those, about 807,000 words are clearly Unitarian.

All the words in the scriptures that are used to support a Trinitarian view fall into the remaining 361 or so words.

So, why do most Trinitarians get upset at Unitarians?
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The WORD is the spiritual son of God, the express image of God. God is not flesh, God is a spirit. You fail to understand that the express image of a spirit is another spirit, not a man. This spirit was sent to be in The body God prepared for him. God needed a perfect body to hold the godlike spirit to act and speak for him. The WORD was dwelling in the man Jesus, jesus was flesh, he did not need to become flesh. The spirit however needed to dwell in a body to become flesh. The Lamb of God is flesh.

Come out of the darkness brother, Christ is knocking on your door.

You can't even take three verses and put them together to show an elemental basic truth of the Christian Faith. How do you expect to make sense of the rest?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Some PROOF of that would be wonderful.


1 John 2:7
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.​


1 John 2:24
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.​


I'm not. You have claimed that 1 John 1:1-2 are. You do not believe in the eternality of Jesus.

1 John 1:1-3
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; )
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.​

Nowhere in these two verses does it mention the eternality of Jesus.
From the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, the disciples heard Him, saw Him, and touched Him.

John then goes on to make a very Unitarian statement:

1 John 1:5-7
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.​

 

keypurr

Well-known member
Eternal means that life is everlasting not that it had no beginning.
Only the Father had no beginning.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The NASB Bible contains 807,361 words.
Of those, about 807,000 words are clearly Unitarian.

All the words in the scriptures that are used to support a Trinitarian view fall into the remaining 361 or so words.

So, why do most Trinitarians get upset at Unitarians?
References please.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Eternal means that life is everlasting not that it had no beginning.
Only the Father had no beginning.

WRONG! as usual. Check a reference first. This is from dictionary.com

eternal
[ih-tur-nl]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):
eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless:
eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable:
eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
noun
5.
something that is eternal.
6.
the Eternal, God.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
You can't even take three verses and put them together to show an elemental basic truth of the Christian Faith. How do you expect to make sense of the rest?


I think I clearly stated what I see as truth. I know most do not discard the fables they have been taught to go deep enough to find truth. The truth is right if front of your nose BR. Jesus was born as a man to be the Saviour of mankind. But that is not what makes him God or Godlike. It was the SPIRIT in him that was a created form of God, that spoke through Jesus and brought light into this world. Why do you turn away from the words of your Lord when he says that his Father is the only true God? Who do you wish to please, God or man?
 

Right Divider

Body part
You have a lot to learn friend. Jesus did not come down from heaven. The true son is a spirit like his father. The EXPRESS image of God and he was given powers you can not imgine he has. Man did not create the Universe, the spirit of God did. God created all things through this spirit. The spirit son came down to dwell in the body prepared for him in Heb 10:5. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing. Your theology is shallow church theology, go deeper RD. The Lamb of God needed to be a man. Jesus was that man. But God sent his true son to live and speak through him.
Gnostic nonsense from a pagan. Sorry for you keypurr. You're in for a hell of a shock when you meet the Lord.

As I told you BEFORE, you have NO IDEA what the WORD "express image" means. It's a SINGLE, NON-COMPOUND Greek word.

charaktēr

Nowhere in scripture can you find that Jesus was taken over by a SECOND spirit. He ALWAYS had the Spirit of God because HE IS GOD.
Mat 3:16-17 KJV And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Notice, you heathen idolater, that the Spirit of God lighted UPON Him. It did NOT enter Him or take Him over or any other such thing.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You need to get permission from Knight before posting 807,000 words of the Bible that are Unitarian in viewpoint.

NO, NO, NO. You have no reference for posting what you did and now you have no way to get out of the web you have spun. You should be able to give a simple reference for your work where other scholars agree with you.
 
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