The Trinity

The Trinity


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God's Truth

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That is not the same as being called "the Father." "I AM" is the name of God as first revealed to Abraham and also introduced to Moses, also claimed by Jesus in the Gospels.

It is the same. Just because you say it is not does not make is so.

Why don't you answer the question?

Is Jesus the I AM in the Old Testament?

Can you please show me where the Lord (that is, God) is called "The Father" in the Old Testament?

I can show you more, but are you trying to diminish the scripture where God says Jesus will be called 'Father'?

How many scriptures do you need?

If you do not understand little, how will you understand much? You already do not understand that Jesus is the I AM in the Old Testament and that the I Am is God the Father.
 

Rosenritter

New member
It is the same. Just because you say it is not does not make is so.

Why don't you answer the question?

Is Jesus the I AM in the Old Testament?



I can show you more, but are you trying to diminish the scripture where God says Jesus will be called 'Father'?

How many scriptures do you need?

If you do not understand little, how will you understand much? You already do not understand that Jesus is the I AM in the Old Testament and that the I Am is God the Father.

You haven't shown any scripture showing that God is called "the Father" in the Old Testament. I am asking because I looked specifically for that and didn't find anything except Isaiah 9:6.

As for the "question" that you are repeating, please don't be obtuse. I said that Jesus claimed the title "I AM" in the gospels, so of course that means that Jesus is "I AM." Just focus on showing evidence for what you claimed previous. If its not actually there just say so and there's no hard feelings. I used to assume the same thing until I went and really looked.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Can you please clarify then, which of these two items you dispute??

a) Jesus is the Son of God.
b) The book of Hebrews is inspired scripture.

Hebrews 1:1-4 KJV
(1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(3) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(4) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
I dispute neither, what I dispute is your understanding of the verses. Jesus was born into the world, He is a man, God's flesh son. He is the body that was prepared for the spirit son. The spirit son is the express image of God. God sent this spirit son, the son of man, to us to bring light and become flesh to be the Lamb of God. This godlike spirit went into Jesus at his anointing. Remember the dove. Acts 10.38 tells you that is when Jesus received the power or fullness of the Father. Jesus was given power, he did not have it. Proof that Jesus was not God. He is the son of God, not God. He is the Lord made so by his God.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

God's Truth

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You haven't shown any scripture showing that God is called "the Father" in the Old Testament.

There are many scriptures in the Old Testament where God is called the Father.


I am asking because I looked specifically for that and didn't find anything except Isaiah 9:6.

That is about Jesus coming in the flesh.

I have more scriptures than that, but you do not deserve more than that. You cannot put any scripture aside.

Why don't you accept all the scriptures?

As for the "question" that you are repeating, please don't be obtuse. I said that Jesus claimed the title "I AM" in the gospels, so of course that means that Jesus is "I AM." Just focus on showing evidence for what you claimed previous. If its not actually there just say so and there's no hard feelings. I used to assume the same thing until I went and really looked.

There are many scriptures that say God in the Old Testament is the Father.

Go look harder and come back to discuss.
 

God's Truth

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Right Divider, please do not get into proving the truth about the Son of God to someone who does not even get that much.

Just talk to me for awhile about calling Jesus the Father.
 

Rosenritter

New member
You haven't shown any scripture showing that God is called "the Father" in the Old Testament. I am asking because I looked specifically for that and didn't find anything except Isaiah 9:6.

As for the "question" that you are repeating, please don't be obtuse. I said that Jesus claimed the title "I AM" in the gospels, so of course that means that Jesus is "I AM." Just focus on showing evidence for what you claimed previous.

Edit: Found this already posted back from yesterday I think. Malachi 2:10. So we have one passage where "unto us a child is born" is called "the Everlasting Father" and one passage in Malachi where God is called a "father" but perhaps not quite in the sense of a title or a name:

Malachi 2:10 KJV
(10) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

What I am looking for is where the Lord (or God) is called "the Father" as a name or a title in the Old Testament. Not like an adjective in metaphor such as Psalm 89:26, etc. Do you have anything else?

If you continue to evade and say "go find it yourself" you are pretty much admitting that it's not there.
 

God's Truth

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You haven't shown any scripture showing that God is called "the Father" in the Old Testament. I am asking because I looked specifically for that and didn't find anything except Isaiah 9:6.

As for the "question" that you are repeating, please don't be obtuse. I said that Jesus claimed the title "I AM" in the gospels, so of course that means that Jesus is "I AM." Just focus on showing evidence for what you claimed previous.

Edit: Found this already posted back from yesterday I think. Malachi 2:10. So we have one passage where "unto us a child is born" is called "the Everlasting Father" and one passage in Malachi where God is called a "father" but perhaps not quite in the sense of a title or a name:

Malachi 2:10 KJV
(10) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

What I am looking for is where the Lord (or God) is called "the Father" as a name or a title in the Old Testament. Not like an adjective in metaphor such as Psalm 89:26, etc. Do you have anything else?

God is called the Father many times in the Old Testament.

God the Father created us and that scripture in Malachi proves God is called the Father.

I will give you more scriptures but I want to know first why you try to dismiss the scriptures that you know about?
 

Rosenritter

New member
I dispute neither, what I dispute is your understanding of the verses. Jesus was born into the world, He is a man, God's flesh son. He is the body that was prepared for the spirit son. The spirit son is the express image of God. God sent this spirit son, the son of man, to us to bring light and become flesh to be the Lamb of God. This godlike spirit went into Jesus at his anointing. Remember the dove. Acts 10.38 tells you that is when Jesus received the power or fullness of the Father. Jesus was given power, he did not have it. Proof that Jesus was not God. He is the son of God, not God. He is the Lord made so by his God.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

Without clear passages saying what you just said to that effect, that would be called philosophy, rather than scriptural doctrine. There's no mention of a "flesh son" vs. a "spirit son" so that part is of some man's devising.

Look to earlier than the account of his baptism, and you will see that the angels acknowledge him at his birth,

Luke 2:10-11 KJV
(10) And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
(11) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

But according to your earlier statement, it was not until the day of his baptism in which our Saviour, Christ the Lord, appeared. Also, Simeon did not see death until he had seen "the Lord's Christ" in Luke 2:30. Apparently Jesus was the Lord's Christ (the Messiah) from the day of his birth, not the day of his baptism. And according to Isaiah 9:6, the child that is born (not the man that is baptized) is He who shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


It doesn't make much sense to suppose that Isaiah means "his name shall be wrongly called" ... but rather "his name shall be correctly called."
 

Rosenritter

New member
God is called the Father many times in the Old Testament.

God the Father created us and that scripture in Malachi proves God is called the Father.

I will give you more scriptures but I want to know first why you try to dismiss the scriptures that you know about?

Sorry, you failed. You balked too many times at the plate. Seems that there are no scriptures that call the Lord by the name and title "the Father" other than Isaiah 9:6. There may be a passage (or even a second) that uses "a father" like an adjective or metaphor, but Malachi it doesn't call the Lord by a title of "the Father" (or at least not unambiguously.)

Maybe you don't understand the question. Regardless, I already know you can't because I tried that myself once upon a time. Any minute now it should sink into the Trinity crowd why that's a problem. The only passage that uses "Father" like a title also uses the title "God" and is assigned to Christ. That's a little rough on the "three persons" theory that subconsciously substitutes "Father" in place of "God in the Old Testament.

Give up trying to show it. The burden of proof is really on Trinity folks at this point.
 

God's Truth

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Sorry, you failed. You balked too many times at the plate. Seems that there are no scriptures that call the Lord by the name and title "the Father" other than Isaiah 9:6. There may be a passage (or even a second) that uses "a father" like an adjective or metaphor, but Malachi it doesn't call the Lord by a title of "the Father" (or at least not unambiguously.)

Maybe you don't understand the question. Regardless, I already know you can't because I tried that myself once upon a time. Any minute now it should sink into the Trinity crowd why that's a problem. The only passage that uses "Father" like a title also uses the title "God" and is assigned to Christ. That's a little rough on the "three persons" theory that subconsciously substitutes "Father" in place of "God in the Old Testament.

Give up trying to show it. The burden of proof is really on Trinity folks at this point.

I do not debate people who write off the scriptures.

You do not believe the scriptures so there is no use in discussing with you.

You cannot even answer simple questions.
 
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God's Truth

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Rosenritter is a Pentecostal and doesn't like to be told his tongue speaking and prophesies have ceased.

He/she also is proof that I am not a modalist, because he/she is.
 

God's Truth

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Fatherhood of God

Throughout the Bible we read that God is the Father.

Deuteronomy 32:6 Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Isaiah 63:16
But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Fatherhood of God

Throughout the Bible we read that God is the Father.

Deuteronomy 32:6 Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Isaiah 63:16
But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.



Your interpretation is dependent upon specific wording of your bible version. My King James, for example, simply says "thy father" and "our father" as descriptive adjectives (lowercase, not as a title).

Deuteronomy 32:6 KJV
(6) Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?


Isaiah 63:16 KJV
(16) Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

When you say someone is your father, or is your redeemer, that doesn't necessarily mean those are titles. As similar example, Psalm 3:3 says that the LORD is a shield, and glory, but those aren't titles of Shield and Glory as forms of address either.

Psalms 3:3 KJV
(3) But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Rosenritter is a Pentecostal and doesn't like to be told his tongue speaking and prophesies have ceased.

When you make predictions like that, you look pretty dumb when you turn out to be dead wrong. I have no Pentecostal background nor affiliation, past or present. So that just leaves you looking dumb... your prophecy that I was "Pentecostal" failed. Apparently that revelation of yours was of your own imagination, not from God.

Do you have any other irrelevant accusations to make to cover your lack of scriptural support for your "God cannot use prophecy anymore" blanket statement? Or would you rather make peace and talk sensibly? I'd prefer the latter.
 

Notaclue

New member
Without clear passages saying what you just said to that effect, that would be called philosophy, rather than scriptural doctrine. There's no mention of a "flesh son" vs. a "spirit son" so that part is of some man's devising.

Look to earlier than the account of his baptism, and you will see that the angels acknowledge him at his birth,

Luke 2:10-11 KJV
(10) And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
(11) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

But according to your earlier statement, it was not until the day of his baptism in which our Saviour, Christ the Lord, appeared. Also, Simeon did not see death until he had seen "the Lord's Christ" in Luke 2:30. Apparently Jesus was the Lord's Christ (the Messiah) from the day of his birth, not the day of his baptism. And according to Isaiah 9:6, the child that is born (not the man that is baptized) is He who shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


It doesn't make much sense to suppose that Isaiah means "his name shall be wrongly called" ... but rather "his name shall be correctly called."



32This Jesus, hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


It can't be any clearer than this.


Peace.
 
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