The Trinity

[God's Truth]

Many people are puzzled by this title because the Messiah, God's Son, is distinguished in the Trinity from God the Father.

God calls Himself a Son because Jesus came from Him. That is what one is called when they come from one. One is called a son, or a daughter.

How can the Son be the Father. Several things must be noted in this regard. First, the Messiah being the second person of the Trinity is in His essence God.

You should say what the essence is when discussing this with me so I understand you better.

Therefore He has all the attributes of God including eternality. Since God is one (even though he exists in three persons), the Messiah is God. Second, the title "Everlasting Father is an idiom used to describe the Messiah's relationship to time, not his relationship to other members of the Trinity.
He is said to be everlasting just as God (the Father) is called the Ancient of Days. The Messiah will be a fatherly ruler. Third, perhaps Isaiah had in mind the promise to David about the forgiveness of the kingdom which God promised would come through David's line. The Messiah, a descendant of David will fulfill the promise for which the nation had been waiting. From the Bible Knowledge Commentary (Old Testament)

The scripture says plainly that Jesus will be called Father and God.
We must believe what is written and do not change it to fit our beliefs.

 

[God's Truth]

It's always been about the thread topic.

I never stated a single opinion about you.

She didn't ever say you were wrong for your beliefs either.

You are simply making things up at this point.

You distinctly calling three different people workers of satan because they attempt to speak to you about the topic at hand is a sign for all.
It's always been about the thread topic.

I never stated a single opinion about you.

She didn't ever say you were wrong for your beliefs either.

You are simply making things up at this point.

You distinctly calling three different people workers of satan because they attempt to speak to you about the topic at hand is a sign for all.

Job: 9. 20. If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Ephesians: 4. 1. I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2. With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3. Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20. But ye have not so learned Christ; 21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24. And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27. Neither give place to the devil. 28. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32. And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Luke: 6. 39. And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? 40. The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. 41. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42. Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. 43. For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. 46. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47. Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48. He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke: 13. 25. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. 32. And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. 33. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. 34. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35. Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Ephesians: 4. 1. I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2. With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3. Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20. But ye have not so learned Christ; 21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24. And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27. Neither give place to the devil. 28. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32. And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

There is a difference between Lord GOD/ LORD GOD/ LORD God which refers to GOD almighty, and Lord, King, Lord of lords, King of kings Son OF GOD which are references to Jesus the annointed of GOD.

As far as you pretending any are doing some great harm by not agreeing with you on every little point;

Matthew: 12. 7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 18. Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. 19. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. 20. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. 21. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust. 23. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? 25. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. 43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Perhaps you are perfect and the fruits you produce here are just contrary to that...wait, nope; according to scripture that just isn't the case.

Now if you can see past yourself then you might notice some good points being made about the topic at hand, but I'm certain you won't see them.

People who think they are perfect also think they are above correction.

I did not read all this, but I did see how you were still denying things that you did do.

Could you please stop trying to tell me about myself? This thread is not for you to do that.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I was called a worker of Satan last week because I was appealing to Christ's command to love one another even in discussions like these. Not for myself, but concerning someone else she was attacking.



If we can speak on topic, how many references to Jesus as Lord God, LORD God, and/or LORD God Almighty would it take for "Jesus is our God" to be up for your consideration? Can you give me a concrete number to aim for? Thanks in advance.

I can easily and honestly say that I will never consider any man to be the fullness of the One Creator GOD, but that I understand the Spirit that was in the man Jesus to be the utter fullness of GOD as far as man is concerned.

Basically I'm saying the anointed of GOD isn't GOD, but the Spirit given to them by GOD is the fullness of GOD in as much as man can discern with their limited capacities and mortality.

To say Christ is the fullness of GOD is too correct to me though, as Jesus the flesh man is no longer, but the Spirit of GOD which did wholly fill His vessel is still GOD.

The Spirit isn't limited to the vessel once it is released from it.


I take issue with proclaiming man to be GOD.

I do not take issue with the words Christ, and GOD being synonymous. I take issue with any proclaiming perfection as a man, of themselves. When we conflate mortal man with eternal god terrible things are made easily possible.

I look forward to your response and ask that you excuse my vagueness. If something is unclear turn please ask and I will attempt to clarify.

Humbly, yet rushed;

peace

 

[Rosenritter]

I can easily and honestly say that I will never consider any man to be the fullness of the One Creator GOD, but that I understand the Spirit that was in the man Jesus to be the utter fullness of GOD as far as man is concerned.

I might understand what you mean, but in that light how do you understand this passage?

Colossians 2:8-9 KJV
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Basically I'm saying the anointed of GOD isn't GOD, but the Spirit given to them by GOD is the fullness of GOD in as much as man can discern with their limited capacities and mortality.

If I were the leader of the free world, with total dictatorial powers, with total power at my discretion, am I able to appoint myself as the chief supreme judge of the world court? If I were to do so, am I still the leader of the free world?

Now in that question, substitute God for leader of the free world, and anointedfor appointed.

To say Christ is the fullness of GOD is too correct to me though, as Jesus the flesh man is no longer, but the Spirit of GOD which did wholly fill His vessel is still GOD.

The Spirit isn't limited to the vessel once it is released from it.

Are you thinking of John 14:28?

I take issue with proclaiming man to be GOD.

I do not take issue with the words Christ, and GOD being synonymous. I take issue with any proclaiming perfection as a man, of themselves. When we conflate mortal man with eternal god terrible things are made easily possible.

Now this sounds confusing. You take issue with the anointed of God being called God, but no issue with Christ (anointed of God) and God being synonymous...

Christ definition. A title by which Christians refer to Jesus. The word is a Greek translation of the Hebrew messiah, meaning “the anointed one.”

Christ | Define Christ at Dictionary.com

www.dictionary.com/browse/christ

...

I look forward to your response and ask that you excuse my vagueness. If something is unclear turn please ask and I will attempt to clarify.

Humbly, yet rushed;

peace

Sometimes it sounds like you take issue with only the usage of a couple words. So a question, if you met me on the street, and we somehow started to talk about Theology Online, would Rosenritter have been the utter fullness of the person that you met on the street that day? Is this what you meant, or something else?

 

[popsthebuilder]

I might understand what you mean, but in that light how do you understand this passage?

Colossians 2:8-9 KJV
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



If I were the leader of the free world, with total dictatorial powers, with total power at my discretion, am I able to appoint myself as the chief supreme judge of the world court? If I were to do so, am I still the leader of the free world?

Now in that question, substitute God for leader of the free world, and anointedfor appointed.



Are you thinking of John 14:28?



Now this sounds confusing. You take issue with the anointed of God being called God, but no issue with Christ (anointed of God) and God being synonymous...



...



Sometimes it sounds like you take issue with only the usage of a couple words. So a question, if you met me on the street, and we somehow started to talk about Theology Online, would Rosenritter have been the utter fullness of the person that you met on the street that day? Is this what you meant, or something else?

Collossians 2: 8-9 within context is speaking of the Spirit of GOD/ Christ, and had nothing to do with the material man.

Your question about a dictator doesn't really relate in a way I can tell. It really makes very little sense to me.

Of course GOD can give authority and power to whomever HE so wills. Does it make that man utterly equal to GOD whom created, formed, or begot said anointed? Not logically nor for any reason that seems logical. Could you explain your point please?

John 14: 28 too seems to be speaking of the Spirit of GOD/ Holy Spirit/ Christ that will comfort and guide and perfect, not to be confused with the man Jesus of Nazareth coming again in his same flesh body He was crucified in.

I didn't mean to confuse; the anointed of GOD has the Spirit of GOD within them; this spirit is the fullness of GOD as far as man can know. It is the Spirit I equate to GOD and not the physical vessel it dwells in.

Please do respond with any further questions or issues. I'm trying to be more concise in my responses bit am having a lot of trouble with a new version of tapatalk.

I'm not too tech savvy these days; please bear with me.

To keep confusion down you could ask or reference singular questions in your posts.

I will try to figure out some finer points about the usage of the software.

it is refreshing to be able to speak without being alienated as some evil force or deceiver or accuser of siblings.

peace

 

[marhig]

It's always been about the thread topic.

I never stated a single opinion about you.

She didn't ever say you were wrong for your beliefs either.

You are simply making things up at this point.

You distinctly calling three different people workers of satan because they attempt to speak to you about the topic at hand is a sign for all.
It's always been about the thread topic.

I never stated a single opinion about you.

She didn't ever say you were wrong for your beliefs either.

You are simply making things up at this point.

You distinctly calling three different people workers of satan because they attempt to speak to you about the topic at hand is a sign for all.

Job: 9. 20. If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Ephesians: 4. 1. I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2. With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3. Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20. But ye have not so learned Christ; 21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24. And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27. Neither give place to the devil. 28. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32. And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Luke: 6. 39. And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? 40. The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. 41. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42. Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. 43. For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. 46. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47. Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48. He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke: 13. 25. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. 32. And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. 33. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. 34. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35. Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Ephesians: 4. 1. I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2. With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3. Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20. But ye have not so learned Christ; 21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24. And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27. Neither give place to the devil. 28. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32. And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

There is a difference between Lord GOD/ LORD GOD/ LORD God which refers to GOD almighty, and Lord, King, Lord of lords, King of kings Son OF GOD which are references to Jesus the annointed of GOD.

As far as you pretending any are doing some great harm by not agreeing with you on every little point;

Matthew: 12. 7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 18. Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. 19. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. 20. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. 21. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust. 23. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? 25. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. 43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Perhaps you are perfect and the fruits you produce here are just contrary to that...wait, nope; according to scripture that just isn't the case.

Now if you can see past yourself then you might notice some good points being made about the topic at hand, but I'm certain you won't see them.

People who think they are perfect also think they are above correction.

Hiya pops,

Don't worry about people calling us workers of Satan, Jesus told us that this will happen. And he said

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

And 1 Peter 3

But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

So have no fear, let people say what they will about us, that's between them and God. As long as we don't act the same, but forgive. Our lord Jesus said, show good for evil. Love one another, even if they hate us and speak evil of us we show love, kindness and forgiveness, bless those that curse us, show love for hate. Because our father in heaven loves others just as much as he loves us, he loves everyone and wants us all back, that's why the gospel is to be preached to every creature throughout the world. Christ Jesus loved all, and if we truly belong to him then we will be the same. Just think of what Paul was like before he met Jesus, and what he was like once he witnessed the truth. So we don't revile, but speak the truth in love.

And Paul said this

Romans 12

Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rathergive place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good

Those born of God, have the same heart as their father in heaven and as our Lord Jesus Christ whom they follow. Because we are at one with them.

 

[marhig]

How about marhig answer this question, or anybody?

Jesus is not the father GT, the father was in him, he had the full power of the Holy Spirit, thus he was in the express image of God, he was Emmanuel "God with us" because he was in the fullness of God bodily. When you see Christ, you see the father, because he only spoke what the father gave him to speak, and he lived as the father commanded him to live, it says in the Bible that God was in him. And God lived and loved fully through him, because he loved not his flesh unto death, and he lived not to do his will, but the will of him that sent him, the Almighty God the father and the father never left him, because he always did what pleased him.

That's what I believe to be the truth, if you don't agree, then so be it. But that's what I believe regardless!

 

[marhig]

You say that God has placed Jesus in a place of worship, but Jesus said you are to only worship the Lord your God. Why do you say that God placed Jesus in a place of worship?

Luke 4:8 KJV
(8) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

We are to worship the creator and the creator only.

Revelation 14:7 KJV
(7) Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Spoiler

Colossians 1:14-16 KJV
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:1-3 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:10-11 KJV
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Could you explain further please?

Hebrews 1:1

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, WHOM HE HATH APPOINTED HEIR TO ALL THINGS, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The father is the highest in heaven and he had exalted Christ Jesus and set him at his right hand, to be over all the heavens and the earth and the only way to the father is through his holy son.

 

[lifeisgood]

Go away, accuser.

Translation: I, gt, do NOT admit I, gt, am flawed. :carryon:

 

[God's Truth]

Translation: I, gt, do NOT admit I, gt, am flawed. :carryon:

Hello lifeisgood, nice to see you. I hope your time lessened here was okay.

 

[God's Truth]

Hiya pops,

Don't worry about people calling us workers of Satan, Jesus told us that this will happen. And he said

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

And 1 Peter 3

But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

So have no fear, let people say what they will about us, that's between them and God. As long as we don't act the same, but forgive. Our lord Jesus said, show good for evil. Love one another, even if they hate us and speak evil of us we show love, kindness and forgiveness, bless those that curse us, show love for hate. Because our father in heaven loves others just as much as he loves us, he loves everyone and wants us all back, that's why the gospel is to be preached to every creature throughout the world. Christ Jesus loved all, and if we truly belong to him then we will be the same. Just think of what Paul was like before he met Jesus, and what he was like once he witnessed the truth. So we don't revile, but speak the truth in love.

And Paul said this

Romans 12

Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rathergive place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good

Those born of God, have the same heart as their father in heaven and as our Lord Jesus Christ whom they follow. Because we are at one with them.

Pops needs to stop doing that to the saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Collossians 2: 8-9 within context is speaking of the Spirit of GOD/ Christ, and had nothing to do with the material man.

Your question about a dictator doesn't really relate in a way I can tell. It really makes very little sense to me.

Of course GOD can give authority and power to whomever HE so wills. Does it make that man utterly equal to GOD whom created, formed, or begot said anointed? Not logically nor for any reason that seems logical. Could you explain your point please?

John 14: 28 too seems to be speaking of the Spirit of GOD/ Holy Spirit/ Christ that will comfort and guide and perfect, not to be confused with the man Jesus of Nazareth coming again in his same flesh body He was crucified in.

I didn't mean to confuse; the anointed of GOD has the Spirit of GOD within them; this spirit is the fullness of GOD as far as man can know. It is the Spirit I equate to GOD and not the physical vessel it dwells in.

Please do respond with any further questions or issues. I'm trying to be more concise in my responses bit am having a lot of trouble with a new version of tapatalk.

I'm not too tech savvy these days; please bear with me.

To keep confusion down you could ask or reference singular questions in your posts.

I will try to figure out some finer points about the usage of the software.

it is refreshing to be able to speak without being alienated as some evil force or deceiver or accuser of siblings.

peace

You should make it refreshing for me and stop trying to tell me what you think of me, you and rosenritter both.

You two should get along great in your sin.

 

[God's Truth]

There is only one Spirit, unlike marhig saying we can receive many different spirits/angels.

I must say, I have been debating for many years and have heard all kinds of false beliefs, and the one where marhig says we receive the spirit of angles instead of the Spirit of God Himself is just creepy and bizarre.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is not the father GT, the father was in him, he had the full power of the Holy Spirit, thus he was in the express image of God, he was Emmanuel "God with us" because he was in the fullness of God bodily. When you see Christ, you see the father, because he only spoke what the father gave him to speak, and he lived as the father commanded him to live, it says in the Bible that God was in him. And God lived and loved fully through him, because he loved not his flesh unto death, and he lived not to do his will, but the will of him that sent him, the Almighty God the father and the father never left him, because he always did what pleased him.

That's what I believe to be the truth, if you don't agree, then so be it. But that's what I believe regardless!

You didn't address anything that I said.

I asked if you should call Jesus what God the Father says to call Jesus.

I gave scripture where God the Father says Jesus will be called the Spirit, and Father.

Are you going to obey God and let those who know the truth call Jesus the 'Spirit' and 'Father'?

Are you going to admit for yourself that it is the thing we are supposed to do?

 

[popsthebuilder]

You should make it refreshing for me and stop trying to tell me what you think of me, you and rosenritter both.

You two should get along great in your sin.

Who is even speaking of you?

Nothing is about you....nothing.

If you have a guilty conscience then take it up with yourself.

Don't ask me to leave you alone and then jump me and blindside me with your overly defensive nonsense.

You said you are perfect and you insinuate it again here.

I have no desire to speak to you whatsoever if you cannot even see a problem with you thinking you are perfect.

If you were then your words would be true and you would be working to edify the congregation of GOD; not repeatedly condemning it while maintaining a blind eye to your own faults.

 

[God's Truth]

Who is even speaking of you?

Nothing is about you....nothing.

If you have a guilty conscience then take it up with yourself.

Don't ask me to leave you alone and then jump me and blindside me with your overly defensive nonsense.

You said you are perfect and you insinuate it again here.

I have no desire to speak to you whatsoever if you cannot even see a problem with you thinking you are perfect.

If you were then your words would be true and you would be working to edify the congregation of GOD; not repeatedly condemning it while maintaining a blind eye to your own faults.

I can comment on anything here that I want and I commented on your recent comment to another member where you once again tried to insult me. Not everyone is blind to your false judgments and insults. If you have no desire to speak to me, then stop speaking to me and about me.

 

[Rosenritter]

Hebrews 1:1

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, WHOM HE HATH APPOINTED HEIR TO ALL THINGS, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The father is the highest in heaven and he had exalted Christ Jesus and set him at his right hand, to be over all the heavens and the earth and the only way to the father is through his holy son.

Yet Jesus still said that we should worship only the Lord our God. Your explanation has God and Jesus contradicting each other, and the angels in heaven rather confused with contradictory instructions.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Since Satan through pops and Rostenritter wants to hinder this discussion, even marhig herself; let's continue with the discussion anyway.

Marhig, you say you want to obey God the Father, correct?

Okay then, God the Father says Jesus is to be called 'Father'.

Will you obey Him?

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


Did you see that scripture? God the Father says that Jesus the SON will be called God and Father.

So then, can we call Jesus that? Can we call Jesus 'God' and 'Father' without rebuke and attempted correction from you?

Isaiah: 22. 20. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: 21. And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. 22. And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23. And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house. 24. And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons. 25. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

What does that mean GT, could you explain it to me.

Didn't you say the new covenant was mysteries revealed? Why then are we referencing the OT?

Just wondering and trying to stay on topic

peace

 

[KingdomRose]

Yet Jesus still said that we should worship only the Lord our God. Your explanation has God and Jesus contradicting each other, and the angels in heaven rather confused with contradictory instructions.

Jesus said we should worship only the Lord our God, and that Lord is Jehovah, whom Jesus called "my Father and my God." (John 20:17) When he said to Satan that we should worship and serve only "the Lord our God," he was quoting from Deuteronomy where God's name, Jehovah, is included. (Deut.6:13)

But of course you understand that. It's nothing new.

 

[KingdomRose]

If people have been following this thread from the beginning, they probably saw several of my posts concerning "The Doctrine of the Trinity/ Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound" by Anthony Buzzard and Charles Hunting. They have made some excellent points in favor of rejecting the Trinity altogether. I think many of us forum-examiners know who Michael Servetus was, and who the Dutch Anabaptists were. To them, as well as the whole community of Polish Anabaptists, the Trinity was a deviation from biblical monotheism, a mistaken attempt to translate apostolic belief in one God, the Father, into the language of Greek metaphysics. Worse still, the creeds and the Councils of Nicea and Chalcedon were used in coercive and destructive ways to force belief in these dogmas. This was all the more regrettable since the terminology of the discussion on Christology was itself a jumble of ambiguous terms---in sharp contrast to the Bible's plainly unitarian creed.

An interesting comment on John 1:1. The Gospel of John, particularly that first verse, had been allowed a more than proportionate influence in the formation of Christology. Could this have been because the style of John's writing, while actually very Hebraic, appealed to the speculative Greek mind, and could be easily misunderstood and distorted by Gentiles? Excellent question!!

The important point to be noted is that developed Trinitarianism cannot be traced back to the New Testament, through the earliest Church Fathers. These Fathers always thought of Christ as subordinate to the One God.
Some believed the Son had a beginning.

So much for the belief that the earliest Church Fathers believed in the Trinity. They did not. For more comments on the Trinity, see the book mentioned above. It is copyright 1998, International Scholars Publications.