The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

What does this mean?

Hebrews 14:4

KJV

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

NIV

In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Hebrews 12:4 you meant.

And I think it means that they haven't been through the worst if trials and chastening yet. They need to be prepared for more.

 

[Rosenritter]

Here is the passage to which you refer...

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

•Father
•Son (Truth)
•Spirit








Salvation has always been reserved for those who worship God as Triune.....even in the OT.


Enoch worshiped The Triune God...

Gen 5.22 - 24

And Enoch walked with HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’)three hundred years after he fathered Methuselah. And he fathered sons and daughters. And all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty five years. And Enoch walked with HaElohim. Then he was not, for God took him.

Noah worshiped The Triune God...

Gen 6.9

These are the generations of Noah. Noah, a righteous man, had been perfected among his family. Noah walked with HaElohim(literal.. ‘all the Gods’).

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob worshiped The triune God...

Gen 48.15

And he blessed Joseph and said, HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’)before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, HaElohim who has fed me since I was born until today;






Satan was bound at The Cross, according to scripture.

Scripture states that our battle is now with the demons, not The Devil.






It is your scriptural ignorance that judges you...

Before you accuse others of scriptural ignorance...

1 Peter 5:8 KJV
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Correction. Our battle IS with the devil. Who told you he was bound at the cross? Certainly not scripture. The devil isn't bound until Christ's return per Revelation.

 

[lifeisgood]

You convinced yourself, not me. Your just following your past teaching which are lacking much.

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Keep on following your 'new revelation' that came to you NOT from God. You will not like where it leads you.

You still have time to come back to the true God and abandon your twice possessed 'a god' you now serve. You have abandoned the true God for 'a god'. How foolish!

How dreadfully, horribly foolish indeed, swallowing hook, line, and sinker without questioning your 'new revelation' in the 'night' when you were not looking.

You, keypurr, are serving a twice possessed 'a god'. (notice the very little 'g')

 

[lifeisgood]

Before you accuse others of scriptural ignorance...

1 Peter 5:8 KJV
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Correction. Our battle IS with the devil. Who told you he was bound at the cross? Certainly not scripture. The devil isn't bound until Christ's return per Revelation.

Not to defend Apple7, but I understood him saying that the Devil was defeated at the Cross (even though he said 'bound'), but I can see how you understood it also.

 

[jamie]

How does that say "God doesn't die?" God can die as many times as he wants seems to me. Make sure your absolute declarations are grounded.

The gift of God is eternal life, how could God give something he doesn't have?

 

[Rosenritter]

Not to defend Apple7, but I understood him saying that the Devil was defeated at the Cross (even though he said 'bound'), but I can see how you understood it also.

Here was what he said:

Satan was bound at The Cross, according to scripture.
Scripture states that our battle is now with the demons, not The Devil.
It is your scriptural ignorance that judges you...

I could understand "defeated at the Cross" in the prophetic sense such as the way your home team "wins" the game at the beginning of the last quarter. But he was very specific that "our battle is now with the demons, not the Devil." It's the combination of that with accusing others of "scriptural ignorance."

The rest of his post claiming that Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshiped a "Triune God" wasn't supported either. It's a rather circular logic to claim that any mention of God, truth, or spirit somehow represents a "Triune God."

 

[Rosenritter]

The gift of God is eternal life, how could God give something he doesn't have?

Just out of honesty, if the Gift of Rosenritter is one hundred dollars, and I have one thousand dollars, I can give that gift away 10 times before I don't have it anymore. Or if you have all the grains of sand on the sea shore and the gift of Jamie is a grain of sand (and one grain per person) you can still leave the beach and be away from the sand. For those reasons alone I would insist that you have a proper passage saying that "God cannot die" before attempting to apply that assumption like you have been.

For clarification, I believe God does have eternal life. He is from everlasting to everlasting. That does not mean that he lacks the power to enter his creation in the same manner as one of his creations, and also experience the same process of death of which he sentenced every man.

Rev 1:17-18 KJV
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 44:6 KJV
(6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Questions, Jamie. Maybe not the question you were expecting, but please answer anyway. In Isaiah 44:6, how many people are speaking? And who is God?
a) the LORD the King of Israel
b) his redeemer the LORD of Hosts
c) both names are referring to the same God, they are just stated in parallel
d) a Divine Duality, this ONE is TWO, the LORD is composed of "two persons"


I ask because you have taken passages with similar structure speaking of God and Christ and said that it proves they are two different people. If you have time, for bonus thought, consider that Revelation 1:8 above contradicts your statement that God cannot die. Jesus identified himself as "The LORD God of Israel ... besides which there is no other God" and also "who was dead" ...

 

[jamie]

I ask because you have taken passages with similar structure speaking of God and Christ and said that it proves they are two different people. If you have time, for bonus thought, consider that Revelation 1:8 above contradicts your statement that God cannot die. Jesus identified himself as "The LORD God of Israel ... besides which there is no other God" and also "who was dead" ...

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."

Jesus relinquished immortality so he could die for the sins of his creation, both humans and angels.

Jesus' Father restored his immortality.

Daniel 7:13-14 "I was watching in the night visions and behold, One like the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed."

In the vision there is the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.

 

[Rosenritter]

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."

Jesus relinquished immortality so he could die for the sins of his creation, both humans and angels.

Jesus' Father restored his immortality.

Daniel 7:13-14 "I was watching in the night visions and behold, One like the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed."

In the vision there is the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.

And you earlier said that only God had immortality. So it sounds like you are admitting that Jesus was God. I'm having trouble finding consistency in your stated belief. You also said that only he who had eternal life could give it, and Jesus gave eternal life.

 

[Apple7]

Before you accuse others of scriptural ignorance...

1 Peter 5:8 KJV
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Peter 5.8 does not refer to The Devil, himself, as it is anarthrous in the Greek to begin with.

Correction. Our battle IS with the devil.

No.

It is not.

Who told you he was bound at the cross? Certainly not scripture.

Scripture clearly, and repeatedly, states that he is presently bound.

The devil isn't bound until Christ's return per Revelation.

The verbs employed in Rev are aorist, completed action.

 

[Rosenritter]

1 Peter 5.8 does not refer to The Devil, himself, as it is anarthrous in the Greek to begin with.
No.
It is not.
Scripture clearly, and repeatedly, states that he is presently bound.

The verbs employed in Rev are aorist, completed action.

Rev 12:11-12 KJV
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(12) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

If scripture "clearly, and repeatedly, states that he is presently bound" then you should be able to show at least three examples of support? I haven't seen you present one yet. I have seen this passage (above) and the previous one that contradict what you just said. For if they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, when was that blood spilled? Before the cross? I think not. The devil is still at large.

I don't know what it is about Church of Christ theology that will argue into the ground that the devil is bound. Actually, I do. The reasoning is that there is no Holy Spirit in the world, and if the devil was out there then how could devils be banished because there is no Holy Spirit. It's a circular logic, to be sure. You aren't disagreeing for any of those reasons, are you?

 

[jamie]

And you earlier said that only God had immortality. So it sounds like you are admitting that Jesus was God. I'm having trouble finding consistency in your stated belief. You also said that only he who had eternal life could give it, and Jesus gave eternal life.

Jesus died. Who raised him from the dead to immortality?

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus died. Who raised him from the dead to immortality?

Jesus said he would raise himself.

John 2:19-21 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. [20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? [21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Peter said God.

Acts 2:32 KJV
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

If we believe Jesus and Peter both, either it was a joint effort of God and Jesus or Jesus is God.

 

[achduke]

Jesus said he would raise himself.

John 2:19-21 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. [20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? [21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Peter said God.

Acts 2:32 KJV
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

If we believe Jesus and Peter both, either it was a joint effort of God and Jesus or Jesus is God.

Both verses are correct. The Spirit of God is in Jesus (temple). Christ said the Father who dwells in him does the work. It is God talking through Christ that says he will raise up the temple or body of Jesus and he does.

 

[jamie]

Jesus said he would raise himself.

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him..."

Do you consider resurrection from the dead to be a miracle, wonder, or sign? If so The Father did it.

The Father told Jesus to rise and shine and Jesus did as he was told.

 

[Apple7]

Rev 12:11-12 KJV
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(12) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

And...?

If scripture "clearly, and repeatedly, states that he is presently bound" then you should be able to show at least three examples of support? I haven't seen you present one yet.

We haven't seen you present one verse showing that he is free, either.

I have seen this passage (above) and the previous one that contradict what you just said.

1 Peter 5.8 is discussing 'A' devil...not 'The' Devil.

Demons are commonly referred to as devils in the NT.

Regarding your Rev passage.....what would you like it to mean?

For if they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, when was that blood spilled? Before the cross? I think not.

The Cross is where it all occurred.

The devil is still at large.

Not according to scripture.

 

[Apple7]

I could understand "defeated at the Cross" in the prophetic sense such as the way your home team "wins" the game at the beginning of the last quarter. But he was very specific that "our battle is now with the demons, not the Devil." It's the combination of that with accusing others of "scriptural ignorance."

Satan was bound at The Cross.

Satan is defeated at The Second Death.

Two entirely different events.

The rest of his post claiming that Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshiped a "Triune God" wasn't supported either. It's a rather circular logic to claim that any mention of God, truth, or spirit somehow represents a "Triune God."

Its pretty clear for anyone who studies the original languages...you should try it sometime.

 

[Bright Raven]

Satan was defeated at the cross.

 

[keypurr]

Keep on following your 'new revelation' that came to you NOT from God. You will not like where it leads you.

You still have time to come back to the true God and abandon your twice possessed 'a god' you now serve. You have abandoned the true God for 'a god'. How foolish!

How dreadfully, horribly foolish indeed, swallowing hook, line, and sinker without questioning your 'new revelation' in the 'night' when you were not looking.

You, keypurr, are serving a twice possessed 'a god'. (notice the very little 'g')

I do serve the true God but you don't wish to see it. You wallow in what you have been taught. Someday you may see the light that Christ gave to us, as of now you don't. I can never return to the doctrines of men. Trust in him who died for you not the traditions of the RCC that most Protestants follow. Time to see that Babylon is falling, it has been exposed as the phoney church that Satan controls.

I wish you well friend but your on the wrong road.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[marhig]

Hebrews 12:4 you meant.

And I think it means that they haven't been through the worst if trials and chastening yet. They need to be prepared for more.

Yes thanks for putting me right, it was Hebrews 12:4 .... Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

It means that you have not yet suffered and denied yourself, turning away from the lusts of the flesh, Jesus suffered everyday denying his fleshly will and he never sinned. Some look the part and say all the right words but their not partaking in the sufferings of Christ, denying themselves, baring their crosses and following Jesus. This is shedding the blood, it's living it out, denying our sins and taking whatever is put before us and suffer it, and by doing this we deny Satan.

And Jesus shed his blood, he lived it out, every minute of every day, denying his will and suffering to please God, and it says in his suffering he learned obedience. And we, when we deny ourselves to please God we learn to obey. And through that obedience and self denial comes strength and power in the spirit. Because we're not living to please ourselves but living to please God and as the spirit shows us our sins within our hearts we are to strive to deny them daily, fighting against Satan with the strength of Christ through the spirit and we have a perfect example follow, a true way perfected in Christ Jesus who laid down his life to bring us the living word of God, dead to his flesh and having nothing of this world in him he brought the word of God with power through the fullness of the spirit showing us the complete image of God through his life, giving us the love, mercy and compassion of our holy loving merciful father and through denying himself he was able to reconcile us to God and save us through his life and he came preaching to us the gospel of salvation.

It says that Jesus came by water and by blood, this is by the word of God and he lived it out in the flesh, teaching and showing us the only way back to God. He poured out his life.

If we are shedding our blood and resisting sin, then we are truly following Jesus. Living it out and denying our flesh and partaking in the sufferings of Christ to please God. And through Christ, God will bless us with the strength to overcome through his holy spirit within. It's easy to say I repent, but true repentance is to turn from that sin and suffer and deny it and sin no more. God wants us cleansed within, and the holy spirit can't clean a heart that is still full of self will and the love of the world and fleshy lusts. We have to be willing to die the death so that Christ can live through us and we are then through him, baring witness to the truth, and bringing the light of Christ to others.

To to resist unto blood/shed our blood, is to live it out and strive against sin and deny our fleshy lusts and bare whatever is set before us and partake in the sufferings that come with it and show love and mercy in return, and in doing this we follow Jesus Christ and he, through the spirit will strengthen us to overcome. Without him and the holy spirit of God, we have no hope.

If we're not denying ourselves, and we are not baring our crosses, then we're not worthy of Christ and we're still dead in our sins.