The Trinity

The Trinity


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7djengo7

New member
I find it amusing you threaten to keep reminding Dartman of these questions when on another thread you refuse to answer mine! It's a little hypocritical of you to expect and state you'll keep asking them when you won't do the same for others, don't you think?

Firstly you cannot demand someone to answer your questions with a yesor no when most of the questions are not yes or now questions.

[1.]Do Trinitarians claim that Jesus, the Son of God, is God? Yes or No?

Yes. They claim he is one of the three persons who are the one God.

[2.]Is Jesus, Who is the Son of God, God? Yes or No?

He is not almighty God but is God/god in a sense separate from the Father ontologically. Since your question and scripture states he is the Son of God, he obviously isn't the God who he is the Son of.

[3.]Is Jesus a FALSE GOD? Yes or No?

No, he is not a false God anymore than Moses is a false God when he was called God (Exodus 7:1), as with Men (John 10:34), and as with Angels and Satan when they are called Gods (Psalms 8:5, 2 Cor 4:4).

Why all your gobbledygook? Just deal with the syllogism:

Major Premise: Every person that is NOT God, but is claimed to be God, is a FALSE GOD,
Minor Premise: Jesus is a person that is NOT God, but is claimed to be God,
Therefore,
Conclusion: Jesus is a FALSE GOD.

What do you say about the Major Premise? Is it TRUE, or is it FALSE?
What do you say about the Minor Premise? Is it TRUE, or is it FALSE?

Since the syllogism is a VALID argument, then, were the premises both TRUE, the syllogism were necessarily a SOUND argument, and the conclusion, in that case, must be TRUE.

When I asked Dartman "What (if anything) do you mean by your phrase, "False God"?" and "To whom, or to what, would you apply your phrase, "False God", and why would you so apply it?" His response was that what he calls a "False God" is:

Anything that people claim is God, other than Christ's God.... which is "the ONLY true God".

Christ-haters, like you and Dartman, deny that Jesus Christ is Christ's God.
Christians--that is to say, Trinitarians--on the other hand, affirm (that is, claim) that Jesus Christ IS Christ's God.

So, the problem Dartman has created for himself is that, by his assertions, he has necessarily implied that Jesus is to be called a "False God", and yet, as a hardened enemy of logic, Dartman absolutely refuses to own the implication of his own affirmations, by refusing to call Jesus a "False God".

It's astounding to observe the antics of Christ-haters like you and Dartman, who go about denying and blaspheming God the Son, and yet make this pathetic show of loathing to call Him a "False God"!
 

7djengo7

New member
[3.]Is Jesus a FALSE GOD? Yes or No?

No, he is not a false God anymore than Moses is a false God when he was called God (Exodus 7:1), as with Men (John 10:34), and as with Angels and Satan when they are called Gods (Psalms 8:5, 2 Cor 4:4).

I told Dartman that his phrase, "False God", is not from Scripture, and that, that being the case, I needed Dartman to tell me what (if anything) HE meant by HIS phrase, "False God". And, he told me. By his phrase "False God", he means:

Anything that people claim is God, other than Christ's God.... which is "the ONLY true God". Do you not understand that the opposite of "True God" is "False God"??
Are you REALLY unaware the number of Scriptures that discuss OTHER "Gods", which are "false"????

So now, YOU have used the phrase, "false God", and, since I find the phrase nowhere in Scripture, I must ask you, What (if anything) do YOU mean by your phrase, "false God"? I don't assume that you mean something by it. I don't assume that you mean by it what Dartman means by his phrase "False God", especially inasmuch as you are not Dartman, and, so far as I can tell, Dartman is not a JW, as you are. In short, I definitely do not assume that you and Dartman are on the same page about everything.

So, to WHAT (if anything) would YOU apply your phrase "false God"? About whom or what would you say "He/she/that is a false God", and why would you say so?

Interesting, also, that you've already--in the quote above--declared that you do not apply your phrase "false God" to Satan. So, to WHAT, to WHOM, would YOU apply your phrase "false God"? In the quote from Dartman, above, it appears that he would be willing to apply his phrase, "False God", to one or more things "discussed" in a "number of Scriptures". What about you? Would you be willing to apply your phrase, "false God", to one or more things written about in Scripture? If so, please specify WHICH things, and why.
 

NWL

Active member
Major Premise: Every person that is NOT God, but is claimed to be God, is a FALSE GOD,
Minor Premise: Jesus is a person that is NOT God, but is claimed to be God,
Therefore,
Conclusion: Jesus is a FALSE GOD.

What do you say about the Major Premise? Is it TRUE, or is it FALSE?
What do you say about the Minor Premise? Is it TRUE, or is it FALSE?

Since the syllogism is a VALID argument, then, were the premises both TRUE, the syllogism were necessarily a SOUND argument, and the conclusion, in that case, must be TRUE.

Major premise: I would say the "Major premises" and accompanying question are loaded in relation to the topic, thus unanswerable. God is not a unique title to YHWH but can be referred to many others, despite this the "major premise" is worded in such a way to suggest there is only one God, when this is not true, there are many Gods, YHWH being the only almighty one out of them. No one is a false God unless scripture states so, despite this we can still determine ones who are "so called gods" (1 Cor 8:5) or in other words "false gods" depending if they are working in line with Gods will or not.

Minor Premise: Jesus is a God, as I'm sure you'll agree, this is clear according to scripture (see Isaiah 9:6, John 20:28). However, Jesus is not the "Most High", "Almighty", or the "One God", only the Father is.

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..we know.. there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father.."

(Psalm 83:18 compared with Like 1:32) "..May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.." "..[Jesus] will be called Son of the Most High.."
 

NWL

Active member
[3.]Is Jesus a FALSE GOD? Yes or No?

NWL said:
No, he is not a false God anymore than Moses is a false God when he was called God (Exodus 7:1), as with Men (John 10:34), and as with Angels and Satan when they are called Gods (Psalms 8:5, 2 Cor 4:4).
I told Dartman that his phrase, "False God", is not from Scripture, and that, that being the case, I needed Dartman to tell me what (if anything) HE meant by HIS phrase, "False God". And, he told me. By his phrase "False God", he means:

So now, YOU have used the phrase, "false God", and, since I find the phrase nowhere in Scripture, I must ask you, What (if anything) do YOU mean by your phrase, "false God"? I don't assume that you mean something by it. I don't assume that you mean by it what Dartman means by his phrase "False God", especially inasmuch as you are not Dartman, and, so far as I can tell, Dartman is not a JW, as you are. In short, I definitely do not assume that you and Dartman are on the same page about everything.

So, to WHAT (if anything) would YOU apply your phrase "false God"? About whom or what would you say "He/she/that is a false God", and why would you say so?

I used the phrase "false God" because YOU used it in your question, thus the burden is on you to to express what "false God" means in relation to your question, not me. Despite this I will answer regardless but expect you to give you definition of what a false God is, if you cannot answer that question then tell me what type of God the ones spoken in Psalms 8:5 or psalms 82:1-2, 6, are they true Gods? If so then why does scripture say there is only one true God, namely the Father (See John 17:3)?

A false God to me and most relates to anyone who is a spoken of as a God in scripture who opposes the one God the Father or works contrary to his will. Satan is a rightly a God, these are not my words but that of the bible, 2 Cor 4:4 rightly calls Satan "The God (ho theos) of this world", Thus Satan is a God according to scripture. I would say false Gods refer to idols that are worshiped as gods that are in truth non-existent. If I for instance claim as I am writing this that the God "Pursky Tut Tut" is a God, and I began worshiping this imagery creation, and made idols of "Pursky Tut Tut" it is a false God since there is no being that could rightly be referred to as a God/god, thus it is a "false God", even then scripture simply refers to these ones as "gods" or "so called gods" in 1 Cor 8:5. I have no issue with not using the term "false god" nor would I knock other people for using the term, since its often used innocently to denote anyone who is against the one God the Father.

In short, there are many Gods/gods but only "One God" almighty, namely the Father.

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.."

As we can see above, the are "so called gods" just as there are "many gods" (v5), despite this "there is no God but one" (v4), who is this one God according to scripture? "The Father" (v6).

7djengo7 said:
Interesting, also, that you've already--in the quote above--declared that you do not apply your phrase "false God" to Satan. So, to WHAT, to WHOM, would YOU apply your phrase "false God"? In the quote from Dartman, above, it appears that he would be willing to apply his phrase, "False God", to one or more things "discussed" in a "number of Scriptures". What about you? Would you be willing to apply your phrase, "false God", to one or more things written about in Scripture? If so, please specify WHICH things, and why.

Why would I apply the term "false God" to Satan when scripture clearly shows him as a God? I am not like you Djengo, I do not deny what is clearly expressed in scripture. Satan is a God according to 2 Cor 4:4, again, these are not my words but the inspired words of YHWH.
 

7djengo7

New member
Why would I apply the term "false God" to Satan when scripture clearly shows him as a God? I am not like you Djengo, I do not deny what is clearly expressed in scripture. Satan is a God according to 2 Cor 4:4, again, these are not my words but the inspired words of YHWH.

No one is a false God unless scripture states so, despite this we can still determine ones who are "so called gods" (1 Cor 8:5) or in other words "false gods" depending if they are working in line with Gods will or not.

So, you refuse to "apply the term "false God" to Satan", since you think that Satan is "working in line with Gods [sic] will"?
 

7djengo7

New member
In short, there are many Gods/gods but only "One God" almighty, namely the Father.

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.."

As we can see above, the are "so called gods" just as there are "many gods" (v5), despite this "there is no God but one" (v4), who is this one God according to scripture? "The Father" (v6).

Not only are you a God-the-Son-hater, because you deny that Jesus is the one God, but you're also a God-the-Father-hater, because you deny that God the Father is the one Lord.
 

7djengo7

New member
Satan is a rightly a God, these are not my words but that of the bible, 2 Cor 4:4 rightly calls Satan "The God (ho theos) of this world", Thus Satan is a God according to scripture.

I have no doubt that, in 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV, the phrase "the god of this world" denotes Satan. But, to me, at least, it seems enormously irrational to think that Paul was being anything but satirical, at Satan's pathetic expense, in applying the term 'theos' to Satan. If you want to cavil at me for taking Paul to have been applying the term 'theos' to Satan in such a way as though Paul were, so to speak, putting quotation marks around 'theos' (as in, 'the "god" of this world'), why, then, we'll just turn around and point out the plank in your own eye, and ask why it is that you not only attribute deity to Satan, but also capitalize the 'G' when you call Satan "God". I'm certainly not going to get on board with your polytheism, nor your blasphemy of Jesus in your making Jesus to be the brother of Satan.
 

Apple7

New member
Get a grip, and a brain...

Get a grip, and a brain...

Satan is a God according to 2 Cor 4:4, again, these are not my words but the inspired words of YHWH.

Satan is NOT Theos in 2 Cor 4.4.

Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.

Satan is nowhere mentioned in 2 Cor 4; but Jesus is, numerous times.

You have a lot at stake wanting to believe that 2 Cor 4.4 refers to Satan, as this then makes your 'argument' for Jesus likewise being referred to as Theos, in other passages, a non sequitur, and you can then dismiss Jesus' deity without any guilt...
 

NWL

Active member
Not only are you a God-the-Son-hater, because you deny that Jesus is the one God, but you're also a God-the-Father-hater, because you deny that God the Father is the one Lord.

Lol, well then you deny your own trinitarian doctrine, since Jesus is the one Lord. The verse states "and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 8:6), if therefore the Father is the one lord who is Jesus, then Jesus and the Father are the same person. The trinity doctrine teaches that Jesus and the Father are two separate persons not the same person as the below picture shows, you've unwittingly contradicted your own doctrine friend.

Moreover I do not deny Jesus is the one God the very scripture does! It clearly states "there is one God the Father", these again are no my words but the inspired writers words.



Interesting. You refer to many things by the word "God" (capital 'G'), AND you refer to many other things by the word "god" (small 'g'). So, what are some of the other things besides YHWH that you call "God"?

Because in truth the small g and capital G are non-existent in the original languages, they are simply translated that way in English for the ease of readers by translators. For example Jesus is called "ho theos" which translates into "the God", in 2 Cor 4:4 it states in regards to Satan that he too is "ho thoes", exactly the same greek word. In most translations of 2 Cor 4:4 they translate ho thoes with a uncapitalized g, "god", whereas in John 20:28 despite it being the same Greek word translate "ho theos" as "God".

The same can be said of the Hebrew scriptures when other beings are referred to as Gods using excatly the same word for God when attributed to YHWH. Translators will translate them with a un-capitalized g despite exactly the same word for God being used (see Psalms 82:1-6, Psalms 8:5)

If you want to examples read through our recent past discussions together, I've clearly given examples. You need to get out this habit of going over the same ground over and over and start trying to understand and take in what I'm writing to you, it's getting boring.
 
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NWL

Active member
So, you refuse to "apply the term "false God" to Satan", since you think that Satan is "working in line with Gods [sic] will"?

As I've already stated, Satan is a God according to scripture (2 Cor 4:4). Satan is not one of the "so called gods" -or as I alternatively put it "false gods"- in 1 Cor 8:5,6, he is one of the "many gods" as mentioned in the verse. The verse has three classes of Gods, "so-called gods", "gods" and the one almighty God "the Father".

(1 Corinthians 8:5, 6) "..For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father.."

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1. Is glorifying Jesus by bending the knee to him "to the glory of God the Father" as Phil 2:11 says?

(Phil 2:10-11) "..that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend... and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.."

2. Who is "Abraham's seed" through, the ones "heirs with reference to a promise" as mentioned in Gal 3:29?

Abraham's seed through Isaac - "..For not all who descend from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s seed; rather, “What will be called your seed will be through Isaac.” (Romans 9:7, 8)

3. Is the word trinity in the bible, if not, do you believe in the trinity? Have you ever used the word trinity before? If you have then why are you using a word not found in the bible?

4. Since Jesus stated "no one come to the father except through me", if we want approach the Father in anything who do we need to direct actions/thoughts through according to John 14:6?
 

NWL

Active member
Satan is NOT Theos in 2 Cor 4.4.

Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.

Satan is nowhere mentioned in 2 Cor 4; but Jesus is, numerous times.

You have a lot at stake wanting to believe that 2 Cor 4.4 refers to Satan, as this then makes your 'argument' for Jesus likewise being referred to as Theos, in other passages, a non sequitur, and you can then dismiss Jesus' deity without any guilt...

And every branch of Christianity that I know of as well as all trinitarian scholars and most if not all here on TOL disagree with you.

Satan is clearly the ruler of the current world as clearly shown in scripture, you were unable to demonstrate how Satan was bound at the cross but instead chose to run at my dissemination of your beliefs allowing question after question to pile up as you were unable to answer the majority of them. If you want I can copy and paste the answers you failed to properly answer and we can pick up where we left off, I doubt you will opt for this option though but will instead run as you have previously done to those specific questions regrading the topic.

Your position is unorthodox and accepted by few but yourself, you are alone, believe what you want in regards to it.
 
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NWL

Active member
I have no doubt that, in 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV, the phrase "the god of this world" denotes Satan. But, to me, at least, it seems enormously irrational to think that Paul was being anything but satirical, at Satan's pathetic expense, in applying the term 'theos' to Satan. If you want to cavil at me for taking Paul to have been applying the term 'theos' to Satan in such a way as though Paul were, so to speak, putting quotation marks around 'theos' (as in, 'the "god" of this world'), why, then, we'll just turn around and point out the plank in your own eye, and ask why it is that you not only attribute deity to Satan, but also capitalize the 'G' when you call Satan "God". I'm certainly not going to get on board with your polytheism, nor your blasphemy of Jesus in your making Jesus to be the brother of Satan.

Paul could have simply referred to Satan as theos without the definite article which would have made Satan "god", the same way Jesus calls the judges of Israel who were speaking to him "gods" in John 10:34, this would fit more in line with what you've expressed above. But Paul doesn't, he explicitly refers to Satan as "ho theos", namely, "The God". So I find your reasoning hard to believe, since why would Paul denote a term which is generally only applied to YHWH to Satan when he could have used a lesser term, that term being, "thoes" with no definite article.

Although we have not been discussing this as yet, but if Satan can be referred to as "The God", then it should make you question why others insist on verses such as John 20:28 as evidence that Jesus is almighty God because he was called "The God" the same as Satan. Arguments must remain consistent for them to be credible, if Satan being called "the God" doesn't make him God, then the same standard needs to be applied when reading "John 20:28", especially when there are only a handful (3 or 4) of undisputed verses that refer to Jesus God. One must ask what type of God/god was Jesus when scripture states there are "so called gods", "many gods", but "one God the Father". We know he isn't the "One God the Father" since obviously the Father is that one God, we know he isn't a "so called god", so what does that leave left for him to be out of the three?

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..4 we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6there is actually to us one God, the Father.."

As yourself, "who is the one God according to v4?" Once you've answered that answer ask yourself if "is your answer in line with the identity of the one God according to v6", if it's not then your answer to the first question isn't in line with the very scripture it was taken from let alone the rest of the bible.
 

7djengo7

New member
Lol, well then you deny your own trinitarian doctrine, since Jesus is the one Lord.
No, I affirm that Jesus is the one Lord, YHWH, just as I affirm that the Father is the one Lord, YHWH. I affirm that Jesus is the one God, just as I affirm that the Father is the one God. I don't say that the Father is A GOD, and then say that Jesus is ANOTHER GOD. That's what you do. And, although you hate God the Father, you pretend to worship the Father, Whom you say is A GOD, and then, although you hate Jesus, God the Son, you pretend to worship Jesus, Whom you say is ANOTHER GOD:

Where have I said I don't worship Jesus?...I do worship Jesus

You worship NEITHER God the Father NOR Jesus.


The verse states "and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 8:6), if therefore the Father is the one lord who is Jesus, then Jesus and the Father are the same person. The trinity doctrine teaches that Jesus and the Father are two separate persons not the same person as the below picture shows, you've unwittingly contradicted your own doctrine friend.

On the contrary, I affirm that Jesus and the Father are two, separate persons. You fail to observe that, in the center of the diagram, in the circle (whose center is equidistant from the center of each of the three outer circles), it says "GOD"; it does NOT say "PERSON". Only Christ-hating liars and fools can say, with deliberation, what you're saying, which is that the doctrine of the Trinity is "one PERSON in three persons". That's not Trinitarianism at all; that's a straw man created and propagated by Christ-haters with minds of straw. On the contrary, Trinitarianism is "one GOD in three persons"; that is elementary.

if therefore the Father is the one lord who is Jesus, then Jesus and the Father are the same person

All you're doing, here, is trying to sneak your unitarianism into the word 'lord'; this is what you are saying:

if therefore the Father is the one PERSON who is Jesus, then Jesus and the Father are the same person

You're raging against a figment of some ancient heresiarch's imagination. You're not addressing Trinitarianism at all; you're just attacking a straw man.

Moreover I do not deny Jesus is the one God the very scripture does!

That's more idiot language from you. If you think Scripture denies something, then why do YOU refuse to deny what you think Scripture denies? But, Scripture NOWHERE denies that Jesus is the one God. And, of course YOU deny that Jesus is the one God; otherwise, we'd not be having this conversation.
 

7djengo7

New member
As yourself, "who is the one God according to v4?" Once you've answered that answer ask yourself if "is your answer in line with the identity of the one God according to v6", if it's not then your answer to the first question isn't in line with the very scripture it was taken from let alone the rest of the bible.

Here's 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 KJV:

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The referent of the word 'God' in v. 4 is YHWH, so the one God is the Father (Who is YHWH), the Son (Who is YHWH), and the Holy Ghost (Who is YHWH). This is, indeed, in line with the identity of the one God spoken of in v. 6.

Here's what YOU impose upon the passage:

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other [PERSON WHO IS GOD] but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one [PERSON WHO IS GOD], the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one [PERSON WHO IS LORD] Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

What's hilarious is that Christ-haters like yourself are stuck with the embarrassment of having made, for yourselves, AT A MINIMUM, TWO LORDS.

But to anti-Trinitarian Christ-haters such as NWL there is...one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things...BESIDE that OTHER LORD--the SMALL-CAPS LORD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me!!!"

Whom would you say is THE ONE LORD to YOU, NWL? Jesus or Jehovah?
 

7djengo7

New member
But Paul doesn't, he explicitly refers to Satan as "ho theos", namely, "The God".

No, he doesn't. Rather, Paul refers to Satan as ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου, "the god of this world". And, what's funny is that, since, by the word 'god', you, as a unitarian, mean 'person', you're making Paul to refer to Satan as "THE PERSON of this world".
 

NWL

Active member
NWL said:
But Paul doesn't, he explicitly refers to Satan as "ho theos", namely, "The God".
No, he doesn't. Rather, Paul refers to Satan as ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου, "the god of this world". And, what's funny is that, since, by the word 'god', you, as a unitarian, mean 'person', you're making Paul to refer to Satan as "THE PERSON of this world".

Sorry, but you say "No, he doesn't" in reply to my statement that Satan is called "the God", you further say "Paul refers to Satan as ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου, "the god of this world". What are you exactly disagreeing with here, since you seem to disagree with me and then go on to confirm what I say.

Was Satan called "the God" according to 2 Cor 4:4, please bear in mind when I ask this I'm not talking about what Satan is God of, but simply if he is referred to as "the God" according the the Greek scriptures.

Does ὁ θεὸς mean "the God"?
 

NWL

Active member
The referent of the word 'God' in v. 4 is YHWH, so the one God is the Father (Who is YHWH), the Son (Who is YHWH), and the Holy Ghost (Who is YHWH). This is, indeed, in line with the identity of the one God spoken of in v. 6.

This is actually ridiculous, how can you not see the error your understanding. You state "The referent of the word 'God' in v. 4 is YHWH", but djengo, we're not discussing who the "God" is according to the verse we're discussing who the "one God" is according to the verse. You've further stated that this "God" is the Father, Son and HS. Try and stay one topic and deal with the matter in hand, where does it express the HS or Jesus as being the one God is the issue of 1 Cor 4-6.

"..But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.." (1 Cor 8:6)

Would you agree that the verse does not mention the HS or Jesus in relation to being the "one God" in 1 Cor 8:6, if you disagree with this then please say so and then show me where is states the HS and Jesus are the one God in v6 as it does with the Father? If you can't then how can you claim that the HS and Jesus are to be included?

=7djengo7 said:
Here's what YOU impose upon the passage:

But to us there is but one [PERSON WHO IS GOD], the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one [PERSON WHO IS LORD] Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

No djengo, what I simply say and believe according to the text is that there is one God the Father, why? Because the verse literally says "there is actually to us one God, the Father" (1 Cor 8:6). Believe it or not but I understand the scripture for what it actually says, you do not, instead you imagine the HS and Jesus are also the one God despite the verse clearly stating the Father is the one God.

What's hilarious is that Christ-haters like yourself are stuck with the embarrassment of having made, for yourselves, AT A MINIMUM, TWO LORDS

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me!!!"

Whom would you say is THE ONE LORD to YOU, NWL? Jesus or Jehovah?

You mentioned the word embarrassment, the only one who should be embarrassed here is you as you use arguments that are so basic and easy to overcome that it would put most to shame. On one hand you mock me as you believe I'm am ignorant, yet on the other hand you show you ignorance by using poor arguments, as I will demonstrate.

You quote Isaiah 45:5 which states according to the translation you used "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me". Tell me Djengo, what word was the "LORD" a substitute for in the Hebrew scriptures? It was a substitute to Gods name, YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh! Thus the verse you quoted does not read "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" but rather "I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no God beside me".

Therefore your question fails and does not make sense according to the actual Bible. You should try reading from a Bible that hasn't been corrupted with the removal of the most divine name in existence.
 

NWL

Active member
No, I affirm that Jesus is the one Lord, YHWH, just as I affirm that the Father is the one Lord, YHWH. I affirm that Jesus is the one God, just as I affirm that the Father is the one God. I don't say that the Father is A GOD, and then say that Jesus is ANOTHER GOD. That's what you do. And, although you hate God the Father, you pretend to worship the Father, Whom you say is A GOD, and then, although you hate Jesus, God the Son, you pretend to worship Jesus, Whom you say is ANOTHER GOD:

Don't affirm it, prove it! What scriptures states Jesus is the "one God"? 1 Cor 8:4-6 certainly doesn't, it rather ascribes the identity of the one God to the Father alone. Instead of affirming stuff which you are in a habit of doing and showing no proof, actually show us what you teach. Where does scripture say Jesus is the "one God"? Also, according to 1 Cor 8:4-6 who is the "one God", Jesus or the Father?

7djengo7 said:
That's more idiot language from you. If you think Scripture denies something, then why do YOU refuse to deny what you think Scripture denies? But, Scripture NOWHERE denies that Jesus is the one God. And, of course YOU deny that Jesus is the one God; otherwise, we'd not be having this conversation.

Here you go again arguing from silence. Since the scripture does not say Satan, Jonah, Mary and Judas were not almighty God is that evidence that they are God? No! Such arguments from silence are foolish, it proves nothing. Likewise you saying "Scripture NOWHERE denies that Jesus is the one God" in some type of defense that Jesus is the one God is a stupid mans argument. All you've demonstrated is that your unable to demonstrate what you claim and thus rely on poor argumentative tactics to try and make sense of a non-existent teaching.
 

7djengo7

New member
Was Satan called "the God" according to 2 Cor 4:4, please bear in mind when I ask this I'm not talking about what Satan is God of, but simply if he is referred to as "the God" according the the Greek scriptures.

You'll be pleased to hear that, after some more thinking about it over the last couple days, I no longer think that Paul was referring to Satan by the phrase, "the god of this world".

Does ὁ θεὸς mean "the God"?

No, it doesn't. It means "the god". On the other hand, ὁ Θεὸς means "the God".

Now, does ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου--"the god of this world"--mean "the God"? No. It does not. Rather, it means "the god of this world".
 
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