The Trinity

The Trinity


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Rosenritter

New member
The Triune God IS one God.

Sounds like you are fighting a strawman of your very own creation.

I bet that you can't even tell us what you think The Trinity even is.....

According to James White, whom members of this thread confirm has a "correct understanding" the Trinity is simply a group of individuals of the same God-species. Just like we may have 1,000,000 dog individuals of one dog kind, and we would say "Hear O Israel, Fido is One Dog" and we would refer to all dogs as "Fido." James White didn't use "dog" as the example, but he actually used "cat" and "rock" as examples.

Never have heard anyone explain how this differs from polytheism. Can anyone deal with this elephant in the room, or is it preferable to continue to tear at each other and accuse each other of being demon possessed, needing to repent, not interested in truth, etc?
 

God's Truth

BANNED
Thank you for the verses, gt.



Matthew 11:28 --- Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.



Matthew 11:28 --- Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.



Matthew 11:28 --- Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Jesus gives us teachings, teachings he says you must obey.
 

God's Truth

BANNED
You, gt, have done absolutely nothing YET!

You, gt, have not entered into His rest so that you can then do the good works, which God has ordained specifically for you to be able to do. (Ephesians 2:10)

To obey Him, you have to enter into His rest FIRST.

You are so entrenched into 'I, gt, obey, everything Jesus say, but really, I, gt, can't', that you have forgotten to OBEY Him by coming and entering into His rest.

Obey Him, gt, 'come' to Him so that He can give you 'His rest'; otherwise, you are presenting the works of your own hands which have already been rejected.

How can you not obey Jesus' beautiful powerful words? How can you NOT obey but still think you are saved?
 

marhig

New member
The issue is how does the spirit of God comes into our hearts.
It has absolutely nothing to do with us, absolutely nothing.

So, do you believe that people can live as they please, and they will receive the holy spirit regardless? and not only receive him, but he will remain with them, even if they don't live right before God? Even if they and disobeying God?

I just don't get what you mean by its nothing you so with us. If we're not living right before God and we're not obeying him, then we won't receive the holy spirit, and if we have got the Holy Spirit within, then he would be helping us to overcome, cleansing our hearts, and we would be turning from sin.

Jesus wouldn't have taught us that we are to deny ourselves if we didn't have to do anything at all. I believe that we are to deny our sinful lusts of our flesh and also deny temptation, this is being tried by fire, and as we deny ourselves, and as the spirit cleanses our hearts, and he strengthens us. but God can't cleanse our hearts if we're disobedient. And as the spirit of God is working within us, we should be carrying those works out in our lives, and the fruits of the spirit should be seen in and through us and the works of the flesh should be dying, thus the life of Christ is seen through us.
 

steko

Well-known member
Never have heard anyone explain how this differs from polytheism. Can anyone deal with this elephant in the room, or is it preferable to continue to tear at each other and accuse each other of being demon possessed, needing to repent, not interested in truth, etc?

Polytheism posits three separate 'beings' as gods.

Trinitarianism posits one 'being' as GOD, subsisting in three persons, all three the same 'being/essence'.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Polytheism posits three separate 'beings' as gods.

Trinitarianism posits one 'being' as GOD, subsisting in three persons, all three the same 'being/essence'.

James White said that there are many individual cats but that they comprise one cat, because that cat is one being. In shocked amazement at this type of explanation I presented it to this board, and the Trinitarians here asserted that his description was not incorrect. To me this sounds like Orwellian doublespeak. It's the same thing as worshiping multiple Gods with a different label slapped on top of it.

Like if I said "I have no cows on my farm" but decided to call all of my horses "cows" ... or better yet, if I report to the government "I only have one Cow" and when I am audited I say I was just using the Trinitarian definition of "Cow" as "Cow Beings" (One Cow being, 500 head of cattle).
 

Right Divider

Body part
James White said that there are many individual cats but that they comprise one cat, because that cat is one being. In shocked amazement at this type of explanation I presented it to this board, and the Trinitarians here asserted that his description was not incorrect. To me this sounds like Orwellian doublespeak. It's the same thing as worshiping multiple Gods with a different label slapped on top of it.

Like if I said "I have no cows on my farm" but decided to call all of my horses "cows" ... or better yet, if I report to the government "I only have one Cow" and when I am audited I say I was just using the Trinitarian definition of "Cow" as "Cow Beings" (One Cow being, 500 head of cattle).
Nice vacuous drivel.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Nice vacuous drivel.

That description is in accord with that given by the current High Priest of The Trinity, James White. I know it sounds like absurd drivel, but the Trinity advocates on this board said it was accurate. If you disagree, then please provide a proper description, one that isn't self-contradictory or merely a game of word play.

James White writes (in blue):
"It is necessary here to distinguish between the terms "being" and "person." It would be a contradiction, obviously, to say that there are three beings within one being, or three persons within one person. So what is the difference? We clearly recognize the difference between being and person every day. We recognize what something is, yet we also recognize individuals within a classification. For example, we speak of the "being" of man---human being. A rock has "being"---the being of a rock, as does a cat, a dog, etc. Yet, we also know that there are personal attributes as well. That is, we recognize both "what" and "who" when we talk about a person.


The Bible tells us there are three classifications of personal beings---God, man, and angels. What is personality? The ability to have emotion, will, to express oneself. Rocks cannot speak. Cats cannot think of themselves over against others, and, say, work for the common good of "cat kind." Hence, we are saying that there is one eternal, infinite being of God, shared fully and completely by three persons, Father, Son and Spirit. One what, three
who's."

Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is One LORD,
translates to,
"Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is multiple god-persons of the same God-classification-of-being"

And is of the same form as,

Hear, O Israel, your COW-herd of cattle is One COW.

Please provide a better explanation that doesn't use doublespeak. If you cannot do so, please consider abstaining from accusing others that have difficulty swearing allegiance to seeming contradiction.
 

Right Divider

Body part
That description is in accord with that given by the current High Priest of The Trinity, James White. I know it sounds like absurd drivel, but the Trinity advocates on this board said it was accurate. If you disagree, then please provide a proper description, one that isn't self-contradictory or merely a game of word play.

James White writes (in blue):
"It is necessary here to distinguish between the terms "being" and "person." It would be a contradiction, obviously, to say that there are three beings within one being, or three persons within one person. So what is the difference? We clearly recognize the difference between being and person every day. We recognize what something is, yet we also recognize individuals within a classification. For example, we speak of the "being" of man---human being. A rock has "being"---the being of a rock, as does a cat, a dog, etc. Yet, we also know that there are personal attributes as well. That is, we recognize both "what" and "who" when we talk about a person.


The Bible tells us there are three classifications of personal beings---God, man, and angels. What is personality? The ability to have emotion, will, to express oneself. Rocks cannot speak. Cats cannot think of themselves over against others, and, say, work for the common good of "cat kind." Hence, we are saying that there is one eternal, infinite being of God, shared fully and completely by three persons, Father, Son and Spirit. One what, three
who's."

Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is One LORD,
translates to,
"Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is multiple god-persons of the same God-classification-of-being" Please provide a better explanation that doesn't use doublespeak.
Your attempted "guilt by association" FAILS.

I don't really care what James White thinks. The Bible says that God is three persons. I believe the Bible.

I'm sure that you know, because you're super smart, that the word ONE in Duet 6:4 is a one of UNITY and not a one of absolute singularity.
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

Like many of those that try "prove" your point with ONE verse, you need to read more and let it ALL speak.
Gen 3:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:22) ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (3:23) Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Same word ONE used here as "one of US".

Go back to the Bible and learn the truth.
 

Lon

Active member
According to James White, whom members of this thread confirm has a "correct understanding" the Trinity is simply a group of individuals of the same God-species. Just like we may have 1,000,000 dog individuals of one dog kind, and we would say "Hear O Israel, Fido is One Dog" and we would refer to all dogs as "Fido." James White didn't use "dog" as the example, but he actually used "cat" and "rock" as examples.
Here is his Trinitarian doctrinal stance. It looks orthodox to me. I'd be more than surprised to see him saying anything different. Note, however, that he does often quote heresy statements word-for-word without a lot of fanfare. Missing the quote marks, I think, has led to a few misquotes of him.
Never have heard anyone explain how this differs from polytheism. Can anyone deal with this elephant in the room, or is it preferable to continue to tear at each other and accuse each other of being demon possessed, needing to repent, not interested in truth, etc?
Correct. This would be tri-theism and is a heresy.
 

lifeisgood

New member
So, do you believe that people can live as they please, and they will receive the holy spirit regardless? and not only receive him, but he will remain with them, even if they don't live right before God? Even if they and disobeying God?

Absolutely not!
The Holy Spirit is the one Who will help us to be obedient.
The Holy Spirit is the one Who will help us to live right before God.

However, He will do nothing for anybody unless He sees the blood on the door posts of your heart.
No blood, you're on your own.

I just don't get what you mean by its nothing you so with us. If we're not living right before God and we're not obeying him, then we won't receive the holy spirit, and if we have got the Holy Spirit within, then he would be helping us to overcome, cleansing our hearts, and we would be turning from sin.

You can only receive the Comforter when He sees you washed in the blood of the Lamb.
No blood, no Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit only works within the confines of the Cross of Calvary because there Jesus paid the debt that you cannot even come close to even coming close to thinking about paying.

If the Holy Spirit does not see Jesus' blood on the door posts of your heart, you're on your own for He only works on your behalf within the confines of the finished legal work afforded on the Cross of Calvary.

Jesus wouldn't have taught us that we are to deny ourselves if we didn't have to do anything at all. I believe that we are to deny our sinful lusts of our flesh and also deny temptation, this is being tried by fire, and as we deny ourselves, and as the spirit cleanses our hearts, and he strengthens us. but God can't cleanse our hearts if we're disobedient. And as the spirit of God is working within us, we should be carrying those works out in our lives, and the fruits of the spirit should be seen in and through us and the works of the flesh should be dying, thus the life of Christ is seen through us.

You can't deny yourself without the help of the Holy Spirit.
You can't come unless the Holy Spirit pulls you when you hear the gospel.
You can't obey without the help of the Holy Spirit.

And you cannot receive the Holy Spirit unless He sees the blood of the Lamb of God on the door posts of your heart for He only works within the confines of the finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary and I'm not talking about the piece of wood.

No blood, you're on your own.
 
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lifeisgood

New member
How can you not obey Jesus' beautiful powerful words? How can you NOT obey but still think you are saved?

You haven't obeyed Jesus because you yourself have stated that you cannot, even though you vociferously say that you do.

"Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone.....We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says....I obey everything Jesus says...."— Courtesy of Saint John W
 

Right Divider

Body part
You haven't obeyed Jesus because you yourself have stated that you cannot, even though you vociferously say that you do.

"Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone.....We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says....I obey everything Jesus says...."— Courtesy of Saint John W
She's a complete psycho
 

Rosenritter

New member
Your attempted "guilt by association" FAILS.

I don't really care what James White thinks. The Bible says that God is three persons. I believe the Bible.

I'm sure that you know, because you're super smart, that the word ONE in Duet 6:4 is a one of UNITY and not a one of absolute singularity.
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

Like many of those that try "prove" your point with ONE verse, you need to read more and let it ALL speak.
Gen 3:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:22) ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (3:23) Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Same word ONE used here as "one of US".

Go back to the Bible and learn the truth.

Dear Divisive One, I have a question for you.

1. When were the angels created? Before the creation of man, or after the creation of man?
2. Do you allow for angels to have free moral agency? That is, unlike dogs, cats, and rocks, can they make choices for good or evil?


Because if it was before the creation of man, then it is obvious whom God is speaking to, when he says "Let us create man in our own image" and when the LORD God says "Behold, the man has become as one of us." Likewise, when man becomes "as one of us" knowing both good and evil, do you not think that the angels also had this knowledge of good and evil?

Genesis does not mention a Trinity, and its plain reading does not require multiple God-individuals (even if one says they are one Being.)
 

Rosenritter

New member
Here is his Trinitarian doctrinal stance. It looks orthodox to me. I'd be more than surprised to see him saying anything different. Note, however, that he does often quote heresy statements word-for-word without a lot of fanfare. Missing the quote marks, I think, has led to a few misquotes of him.

Correct. This would be tri-theism and is a heresy.

For clarification, if I understand what you just said, saying that "One God" means "One God being" in the same sense that there is "One Cat being" and "One Rock Being" or "One Angel Being" composed of three individuals is both "tri-theism" and "heresy?" In the sense that the "God being" has three persons, the Cat being has about three billion non-persons, and the Angel being has who knows how many persons?

Could I just have a yes or no on that please?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Dear Divisive One, I have a question for you.
I don't care what names you call me. Jesus and Paul were called divisive by people like you.

1. When were the angels created? Before the creation of man, or after the creation of man?
2. Do you allow for angels to have free moral agency? That is, unlike dogs, cats, and rocks, can they make choices for good or evil?
What do THESE have to do with the POST that you QUOTED? Stay on the SUBJECT, oh Divisive One.

Because if it was before the creation of man, then it is obvious whom God is speaking to, when he says "Let us create man in our own image" and when the LORD God says "Behold, the man has become as one of us." Likewise, when man becomes "as one of us" knowing both good and evil, do you not think that the angels also had this knowledge of good and evil?
Nowhere in the BIBLE will you find that the angels are made in the image of God and NO I do not think that they had the knowledge of good and evil. Please show the scripture that says that they did.

Did you not understand the that the word ONE there has a meaning of UNITY and NOT SINGULARITY?

Try this ONE:
Gen 2:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Same thing. Are a man and his wife singularly one flesh or a unity of two into one (it's the second one, in case you can't figure it out).

Genesis does not mention a Trinity, and its plain reading does not require multiple God-individuals (even if one says they are one Being.)
According to your bogus theory. Thanks for nothing.

P.S. Stop trying to be an "administrator" here with your neg reps.
 

Lon

Active member
For clarification, if I understand what you just said, saying that "One God" means "One God being" in the same sense that there is "One Cat being" and "One Rock Being" or "One Angel Being" composed of three individuals is both "tri-theism" and "heresy?" In the sense that the "God being" has three persons, the Cat being has about three billion non-persons, and the Angel being has who knows how many persons?

Could I just have a yes or no on that please?

I was saying 'tritheism' is heresy. I have a thread on this topic where PPS and others have went the extra-mile to expound the problem if such would be of service to you. Between tritheism and monotheism is the Trinitarian view.
 
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