The Timelessness of God
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Is that a dodge? Not impressive.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So it completely left the mind of the LORD?
That's wasn't sarcasm.
Now you're fighting dirty. You came in here with a simple answer that held no weight, whatsoever. But, you are insinuating deeper theological perceptions.
Are you associating this with God "being Sinful", or with God "knowing evil"?
I see your seriousness... and have placed you on respect probation.
Just playing by your particular set of theological rules.
If God created man and man is inherently sinful...then God created sin.
Basic logic.
Okay...
Full disclosure. We have been enjoying discussion on this matter for sometime. I refused to let you get away with hit and run.
Hence, I shined you on.
But... I fully disagree with you that on your incineration that God has "Never Existed" at any point. God has "always existed", from my perspective.
I will concede my point to you if you can logically disprove me through simple questions of logic that require yes or no answers. You are welcome to shoot first. Do you accept this challenge of logic?
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Indeed.... hmmm... More to come on that later..., but task at hand.
I'm warming up to the way you communicate.
Honestly... I'm genuinely excited. Thank you. Happy working. And... first question deferred to me. Unexpected.
Are you comfortable trying to disprove that God has "always existed" with a linear approach to "time"?
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I was asking you based on your interpretation of what I believe.
I think He does what He says He will do. Or do you think He lied when He said He would forget the sins?
An attribute? No.
An aspect of His existence, YES.
I think God had some idea that Abraham loved God, and as you say, God knows what is on a man's heart. But I think God likes to confirm things, instead of just look and see.
No, But I think that in the Garden He formed an image for Adam and Eve to look at so He could communicate with them on a personal level. Whether it 'walked' or not is a different matter.
God could have, but chose to do it in 6 days, and rested on the 7th, so that He could admire His work. He wanted to intimately know what He was creating.
It is illogical for something to exist outside of time.
Yes.
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This is sidebar... Unless a person ascribes to "theological rules" before your very eyes, it is best to empty of self and empty of self perception... before one engages in the discourse of spiritual things.
I'm not being sarcastic now. I'm saying that "balance" is very important, and human wisdom is incapable of bringing "true balance". Thus, I assert, my "theological rules" are simple.
God is Love
God is the Origin of "Everything", yet He is without Origin
God is not a Tyrant and thus FreeWill is a gift of God purchased with His Love that we might each come to know Him uniquely and sincerely... as He clearly knows us.
Mankind is utterly "nothing" without Him, but utterly "everything" to Him.
Now you know my rules.
: )
Re-post of my first question to you:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
A big " IF."
According to your ideas God makes men sinful and then He punishes them for the very thing which He alone is responsible.
That is not the God that I worship!
Besides that, consider what is said about the LORD:
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all" (1 Jn.1:5).
According to your ideas the LORD is full of the things of darkness and He is spreading those things all over the earth.
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First my view regarding God:
I view God as a construction, an idea constructed in an effort to understand our mysterious and uncertain lives, evident by the pantheon of historically existing, primarily irrelevant, gods. As such the question of God's existence between existing as a mere idea against His presumed ontological being maintains a wider gap than the average believer will comfortably admit to.
With this in mind....the answer to your question is, no...quite to the contrary.
This is where I freak out...
#nope
I'm honored to be able to debate with you. When you came back, immediately after I threw sarcasm your way, I knew you would contribute to this discussion well.
I fully understand and respect your perspective. I'm not here to make you follow "These foreign laws of God and man." Nor do I desire to "Wrest their neighbor to their will".
I hope we may discuss this still.
If I have not ears to hear my neighbor, how can I open mouth towards my neighbor?
Your turn to "shoot". [MENTION=2365]quip[/MENTION]
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So the LORD didn't even know if Abraham revered Him even though He knew His heart? And He did not even know earlier when He credited him with righteousness?:
"And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:5-6).
How could the LORD credit Abraham with righteousness if he didn't even know if he revered Him or not?