ECT The thing MAD can't grasp about the plot of the NT

Interplanner

New member
It is not that God decided to change programs from a theocratic Israel to the mission of the Gospel during Christ's ministry. He always was going to the nations, but he wanted as many in Israel to help as possible. Thus Pentecost, Acts 15 and 26 show the mission to be the direction of the whole work of God during this time. Amos 9 is quoted because the mission shows through in it.

D'ism and J. V. McGee on Mt 21 (just aired yesterday) is mistaken about handling this. They don't realize the mission was always there, and is one end of Acts to the other. But will Israel get on board?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
It is not that God decided to change programs from a theocratic Israel to the mission of the Gospel during Christ's ministry. He always was going to the nations, but he wanted as many in Israel to help as possible. Thus Pentecost, Acts 15 and 26 show the mission to be the direction of the whole work of God during this time. Amos 9 is quoted because the mission shows through in it.

D'ism and J. V. McGee on Mt 21 (just aired yesterday) is mistaken about handling this. They don't realize the mission was always there, and is one end of Acts to the other. But will Israel get on board?

Could you break this down a wee bit? It appears to be somewhat confusing.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
It is not that God decided to change programs from a theocratic Israel to the mission of the Gospel during Christ's ministry. He always was going to the nations, but he wanted as many in Israel to help as possible. Thus Pentecost, Acts 15 and 26 show the mission to be the direction of the whole work of God during this time. Amos 9 is quoted because the mission shows through in it.

D'ism and J. V. McGee on Mt 21 (just aired yesterday) is mistaken about handling this. They don't realize the mission was always there, and is one end of Acts to the other. But will Israel get on board?

Indeed Israel did get on board and preached the Gospel in all nations beginning at Jerusalem as was commanded.

It is ridiculous to believe that the Apostles of Acts ch 1 had disobeyed the Lord.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

LA
 

Danoh

New member
If I know Interplanner, he is going to make mincemeat out of your incorrect use of Romans 10:18 :chuckle:

Then again, he too might prove just as clueless, once more...

We'll see...
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Indeed Israel did get on board and preached the Gospel in all nations beginning at Jerusalem as was commanded.

It is ridiculous to believe that the Apostles of Acts ch 1 had disobeyed the Lord.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

LA

As usual, you have it ALL wrong. The Apostles preached the "Kingdom Message." The Apostle Paul alone preached the Grace Message. You see, your problem is, you don't have a clue how to "Rightly Divide" the written word of God. Unfortunately, you're all messed up and lost in a "Maelstrom of Confusion and Ignorance."
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
LA, every time you post something, your credibility goes down a notch or two. If you're not careful, someday you'll end up sounding like Letsargue. I'm only trying to help you seem more intelligent. Although, at this point, it appears to be an "Exercise in Futility."

Again, stay off that LA Freeway, it's bumper to bumper with false doctrine and confusion. It's not your fault. Oh, wait a second, it is your fault.
 

Interplanner

New member
Indeed Israel did get on board and preached the Gospel in all nations beginning at Jerusalem as was commanded.

It is ridiculous to believe that the Apostles of Acts ch 1 had disobeyed the Lord.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

LA


Not the leadership of Israel!
 

Interplanner

New member
As usual, you have it ALL wrong. The Apostles preached the "Kingdom Message." The Apostle Paul alone preached the Grace Message. You see, your problem is, you don't have a clue how to "Rightly Divide" the written word of God. Unfortunately, you're all messed up and lost in a "Maelstrom of Confusion and Ignorance."



Peter did not preach a message about a theocracy. The terms in the ch 3 sermon that sound like that were about the refreshing work of the Spirit in taking the gospel to all nations. It also happens that by doing so a very serious problem would solved in that generation: the problem of a liberation revolt against Rome. There would simply be no need or interest if the work of the mission of the Gospel was pursued.

So there is no 'gospel' about a theocracy. There is however, the reign of God to proclaim to all the earth but it is enacted or empowered by the same redemptive Gospel of God's love, which is the power of God.

As you can see this is why Acts 2's sermon has no "Israel" attachments to it. It is to Israel because the audience is primarily Jews at Pentecost. But it is the same forgiveness message as Act 13 etc. It is also proclaiming the reign of Christ already; not one waiting for or dependent on Israel's response. The response of Israel that awaited was merely to the mission work.
 

Interplanner

New member
GM, I won't be answering any posts where you just talk about the person, not the exegesis. It is a waste of time. So figure out how to talk about the text itself.
 

Danoh

New member
It is not that God decided to change programs from a theocratic Israel to the mission of the Gospel during Christ's ministry. He always was going to the nations, but he wanted as many in Israel to help as possible. Thus Pentecost, Acts 15 and 26 show the mission to be the direction of the whole work of God during this time. Amos 9 is quoted because the mission shows through in it.

D'ism and J. V. McGee on Mt 21 (just aired yesterday) is mistaken about handling this. They don't realize the mission was always there, and is one end of Acts to the other. But will Israel get on board?

Wrong.

Salvation was never "the mission."

The Glory of God in His Son by the Spirit is.

From Genesis thru Revelation.

The reconciling of man back unto Himself is merely one aspect of God's intent to reconcile the Heavens and the Earth back unto Himself to His Glory in His Son by the Spirit.

That aspect concerning the Earth was Prophesied throughout and was the focus throughout.

While, that Heavenly aspect which will make the Prophesied Earthly aspect possible; had been a Mystery hid in God.

Thrown off by God's Prophesying and focusing on the Earthly aspect; the Adversary walked right into the very aspect by which he chekmated himself: the Mystery aspect.

The war is over real estate - over who will reign over all creation; in the end.

Until then, the whole creation has been made subject to vanity - until now (to this very day).

Understand that, and you'll begin to see how off you are on all your above, Interplanner.

You'll begin to see you why even your above description of what you think is what; is skewed.

Because your perception is.

Because you think the whole issue is about you; about man's redemption.

Get over glorying in this notion of yourself; of what you think God is doing for you/mankind.

When ever the redemption of man is made the focus of either Prophecy or Mystery; all sorts of other notions follow.

You are not the issue. None of us are.

God's glory in His Son by His Spirit...is.

Any other focus is a catering, in one form or another, to the Adversary's "I will be like the Most High."

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

"We" are not...the issue.
 
Last edited:

Interplanner

New member
Wrong.

Salvation was never "the mission."

The Glory of God in His Son by the Spirit is.

From Genesis thru Revelation.

The reconciling of man back unto Himself is merely one aspect of God's intent to reconcile the Heavens and the Earth back unto Himself to His Glory in His Son by the Spirit.

That aspect concerning the Earth was Prophesied throughout and was the focus throughout.

While, that Heavenly aspect which will make the Prophesied Earthly aspect possible; had been a Mystery hid in God.

Thrown off the by God's Prophesying and focusing on the Earthly aspect; the Adversary walked right into the very aspect by which he chekmated himself: the Mystery aspect.

The war is over real estate - over who will reign over all creation; in the end.

Until then, the whole creation has been made subject to vanity - until now (to this very day).

Understand that, and you'll begin to see how off you are on all your above, Interplanner.

You'll begin to see you why even your above description of what you think is what; is skewed.

Because your perception is.

Because you think the whole issue is about you; about man's redemption.

Get over glorying in this notion of yourself; of what you think God is doing for you/mankind.

When ever the redemption of man is made the focus of either Prophecy or Mystery; all sorts of other notions follow.

You are not the issue. None of us are.

God's glory in His Son by His Spirit...is.

Any other focus is a catering, in one form or another, to the Adversary's "I will be like the Most High."

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

"We" are not...the issue.



But the Son is defined as being the one willing to redeem us. The icon of God--the logo--is the Son on the cross. Not creating. Not doing the deluge. Not vanquishing the earth at the end of time. Not cuddling children in Jerusalem. But being a Lamb looking as if slain.

You do not have perspective.
 

Interplanner

New member
Wrong.

Salvation was never "the mission."

The Glory of God in His Son by the Spirit is.

From Genesis thru Revelation.

The reconciling of man back unto Himself is merely one aspect of God's intent to reconcile the Heavens and the Earth back unto Himself to His Glory in His Son by the Spirit.

That aspect concerning the Earth was Prophesied throughout and was the focus throughout.

While, that Heavenly aspect which will make the Prophesied Earthly aspect possible; had been a Mystery hid in God.

Thrown off the by God's Prophesying and focusing on the Earthly aspect; the Adversary walked right into the very aspect by which he chekmated himself: the Mystery aspect.

The war is over real estate - over who will reign over all creation; in the end.

Until then, the whole creation has been made subject to vanity - until now (to this very day).

Understand that, and you'll begin to see how off you are on all your above, Interplanner.

You'll begin to see you why even your above description of what you think is what; is skewed.

Because your perception is.

Because you think the whole issue is about you; about man's redemption.

Get over glorying in this notion of yourself; of what you think God is doing for you/mankind.

When ever the redemption of man is made the focus of either Prophecy or Mystery; all sorts of other notions follow.

You are not the issue. None of us are.

God's glory in His Son by His Spirit...is.

Any other focus is a catering, in one form or another, to the Adversary's "I will be like the Most High."

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

"We" are not...the issue.



There is no prophesied earthly aspect, not on this earth. it's going to be NHNE, sort of a counterpart to contrast with the deluge (2 Pet 3).

We are the issue that matters in the Bible. God is the kind of guy who drops the 99 and rescues the 1 lost one.
 

Interplanner

New member
Wrong.

Salvation was never "the mission."

The Glory of God in His Son by the Spirit is.

From Genesis thru Revelation.

The reconciling of man back unto Himself is merely one aspect of God's intent to reconcile the Heavens and the Earth back unto Himself to His Glory in His Son by the Spirit.

That aspect concerning the Earth was Prophesied throughout and was the focus throughout.

While, that Heavenly aspect which will make the Prophesied Earthly aspect possible; had been a Mystery hid in God.

Thrown off the by God's Prophesying and focusing on the Earthly aspect; the Adversary walked right into the very aspect by which he chekmated himself: the Mystery aspect.

The war is over real estate - over who will reign over all creation; in the end.

Until then, the whole creation has been made subject to vanity - until now (to this very day).

Understand that, and you'll begin to see how off you are on all your above, Interplanner.

You'll begin to see you why even your above description of what you think is what; is skewed.

Because your perception is.

Because you think the whole issue is about you; about man's redemption.

Get over glorying in this notion of yourself; of what you think God is doing for you/mankind.

When ever the redemption of man is made the focus of either Prophecy or Mystery; all sorts of other notions follow.

You are not the issue. None of us are.

God's glory in His Son by His Spirit...is.

Any other focus is a catering, in one form or another, to the Adversary's "I will be like the Most High."

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

"We" are not...the issue.



There is no place where an earthly theocracy is the mystery. Not in the NT. Just in mysterious D'ism.


But back to your first denial. 'Salvation was never the mission.' What have you been reading. There isn't any other interest in Acts than the mission. The silence about 'restoring Israel' is quite intentional, except to those with other intentions!

So you can't say never, because the Son was declared to be reigning since and through his resurrection in the first sermon as the victorious savior who provided righteousness. You are simply bringing in one foreign concept after another and trying to make a consistent message out of them--the foreign concepts, not actual blocks of NT materials.
 

Interplanner

New member
As the OP says, the reason for picking Amos 9 is because the mission to the nations is what the 'restoration of David's fallen tent' is about. Instead of putting 2 and 2 together, you put 1 foreign idea here and 1 there and think they are a more intelligent system. I've heard you brag about your intelligence, yes indeed. You know so much more than anyone here, it takes our breath away.
 

Danoh

New member
But the Son is defined as being the one willing to redeem us. The icon of God--the logo--is the Son on the cross. Not creating. Not doing the deluge. Not vanquishing the earth at the end of time. Not cuddling children in Jerusalem. But being a Lamb looking as if slain.

You do not have perspective.

The Cross is the means by which He will reconcile all things back unto Himself - whether they be things in Earth or things in Heaven - all things were made by Him and for Him - and His they will be.

How is the Cross said means - it proves He is not only Who He claims He is, but that what He claims is rightfully His...is - as God is not some Authoritarian (one who unjustly asserts a thing is so).

Man's redemption by the Cross is merely one small aspect of that.

Actually, a mere side benefit within all that...

That aspect that is "to the praise of HIS Glory - where-IN HE hath made us accepted IN the Beloved..."

You just think you know what I am going on about that you then conclude you have refuted...

This last assertion on my part of which you often take personal offence to?

Fact of the matter is...

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

"The preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the Mystery" - Rom. 16:25 *

_____

* Rom. 16:26 refers to Paul's writings, Rom. 15:15-16; 1 Cor. 14:37; Gal. 1:20; etc.
 

Danoh

New member
There is no place where an earthly theocracy is the mystery. Not in the NT. Just in mysterious D'ism.


But back to your first denial. 'Salvation was never the mission.' What have you been reading. There isn't any other interest in Acts than the mission. The silence about 'restoring Israel' is quite intentional, except to those with other intentions!

So you can't say never, because the Son was declared to be reigning since and through his resurrection in the first sermon as the victorious savior who provided righteousness. You are simply bringing in one foreign concept after another and trying to make a consistent message out of them--the foreign concepts, not actual blocks of NT materials.

One, I never asserted the Mystery is about the Earth - that is your sloppiness read into another's words, as usual.

Two, I place "the mission" in quotes because I was referring to YOUR assertion - to what YOU refer to as "the mission."

You continue to prove yourself one heck of a sloppy reader...
 
Last edited:
Top