ECT the Sixth Hour in John 19:14.

[0scar]

Jason just closed the thread " Explaining the Sixth Hour in John 19:14" because he run out of arguments

Jesus was at the Gabbatha, that is the Judgemnet Hall of Pilate; and was at the sixth hour, wich is noon in Roman, Jew, Greek and whatever time system existed in the I Century.
At noon Jesus was not yet sentenced to be crucified... and NEXT DAY at the third hour, that is before 9am, Jesus was already crucified.

 

[0scar]

John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. 29Pilate then went out unto them, and said,

33Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again,

19:9And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus,

13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! 15But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

16Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

17And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18Where they crucified him,

at the sixth hour Jesus WAS at the Judgment Hall
NOT yet crucified.

offcourse, there is not any sign at all of any flash forward. can you show in John 19 the indication of a possible flash forward?

KJV

 

[0scar]

Christian scholars have made up many LIES in order to make John 19:14 say some different. One of the inventions was making believe that Romas counted hours from midnight and form noon. In that case the sixth hour would be 6am.
The fact is that secular historians know very well that all ancient civilizations counted hours from sunrise to sunset; being the Roman no exception. They know that time counted from midnight commenced only with the mechanical clocks.
What the Christians scholars have is the text of the marthyry of Policarp. In that document it is recorded the time and date of his marthyry. The year, the month,and the day are given in Roman terms; and there is no doubt that the hour is also given in Roman terms.
The given hour is the eight hour. That is all they have. Is it corresponding to our 8am, or is it 2pm? Every other document we have concerning Roman time keeping indicate that the eight hour is always our 2pm. What makes the Christian scholars believe that it is 8am?

The sixth hour is 12noon. All documents we have point to that. There is not a single document sugesting that the sixth hour is other than 12noon.

In fact, the word siesta comes from latin sista, wich is sixth in latin

 

[Jacob]

Jason just closed the thread " Explaining the Sixth Hour in John 19:14" because he run out of arguments

Jesus was at the Gabbatha, that is the Judgemnet Hall of Pilate; and was at the sixth hour, wich is noon in Roman, Jew, Greek and whatever time system existed in the I Century.
At noon Jesus was not yet sentenced to be crucified... and NEXT DAY at the third hour, that is before 9am, Jesus was already crucified.

Do you have a verse that shows a passing of a day or the coming of a new day? I don't. I haven't found any.

 

[Jacob]

Would midnight be half of the way between sunset and sunrise?

 

[0scar]

Do you have a verse that shows a passing of a day or the coming of a new day? I don't. I haven't found any.

Would midnight be half of the way between sunset and sunrise?

What we all have is that firstly Jesus was at the Gabbatha at the sixth hour and later, not yet sentenced to crucifixion
What we all have is Jesus already crucified at the Golgotha at the third hour
What we know is that the sixth hour is 12noon, and that the third hour is 9am.

 

[Jacob]

What we all have is that firstly Jesus was at the Gabbatha at the sixth hour and later, not yet sentenced to crucifixion
What we all have is Jesus already crucified at the Golgotha at the third hour
What we know is that the sixth hour is 12noon, and that the third hour is 9am.

I don't know that Jesus was at the Gabbatha at the sixth hour.

 

[0scar]

John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. 29Pilate then went out unto them, and said,

33Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again,

19:9And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus,

13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! 15But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. 16Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

17And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18Where they crucified him,

at the sixth hour Jesus WAS at the Judgment Hall
NOT yet crucified.

offcourse, there is not any sign at all of any flash forward. can you show in John 19 the indication of a possible flash forward?

KJV

 

[Jacob]

John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. 29Pilate then went out unto them, and said,

33Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again,

19:9And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus,

13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! 15But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

16Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

17And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18Where they crucified him,

at the sixth hour Jesus WAS at the Judgment Hall
NOT yet crucified.

offcourse, there is not any sign at all of any flash forward. can you show in John 19 the indication of a possible flash forward?

KJV

Jesus was at the Gabbatha before He was crucified.

 

[0scar]

John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. 29Pilate then went out unto them, and said,

33Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again,

19:9And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus,

13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! 15But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. 16Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

17And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18Where they crucified him,

at the sixth hour Jesus WAS at the Judgment Hall
NOT yet crucified.

offcourse, there is not any sign at all of any flash forward. can you show in John 19 the indication of a possible flash forward?

KJV

Jesus was at the Gabbatha before He was crucified.

 

[Jacob]

Jesus was at the Gabbatha before He was crucified.

The question is when, and I don't agree with Oscar.

 

[0scar]

The letter of the Smyrnaeans or the Martyrdom of Polycarp

Polycarp 21:1
Now the blessed Polycarp was martyred on the second day of the first part of the month Xanthicus, on the seventh before the calends of March, on a great Sabbath, at the eighth hour.

21:1 Now the blessed Polycarp was martyred on the second day of the month Xanthicus, on the twenty-fifth of April, on the great Sabbath, at the eighth hour.

1 Now the blessed Polycarp was martyred on the second day of the first half of the month of Xanthicus, the seventh day before the kalends of March, a great sabbath, at the eighth hour.

CHAPTER XXI -- THE DATE OF THE MARTYRDOM.
Now, the blessed Polycarp suffered martyrdom on the second day of the month Xanthicus just begun, the seventh day before the Kalends of May, on the great Sabbath, at the eighth hour.

21:1
Now the blessed Polycarp was martyred on the second day of the first part of the month Xanthicus, on the seventh before the calends of March, on a great Sabbath, at the eighth hour.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/martyrdompolycarp.html
those are 5 translation of the ONLY document in wich christian scholars found a supposed suport for a roman time keeping from midnigh and from noon, instead of ALL others documents supporting sunset as starting time.

honestly... how do they understand that the eight hour is 8am instead of 2pm?

 

[0scar]

Our 24-hour day comes from the ancient Egyptians who divided day-time into 10 hours they measured with devices such as shadow clocks, and added a twilight hour at the beginning and another one at the end of the day-time, says Lomb.

"Night-time was divided in 12 hours, based on the observations of stars. The Egyptians had a system of 36 star groups called 'decans' — chosen so that on any night one decan rose 40 minutes after the previous one.

"Tables were produced to help people to determine time at night by observing the decans. Amazingly, such tables have been found inside the lids of coffins, presumably so that the dead could also tell the time."

In the Egyptian system, the length of the day-time and night-time hours were unequal and varied with the seasons.

"In summer, day-time hours were longer than night-time hours while in winter the hour lengths were the other around," says Lomb.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/11/15/3364432.htm

 

[0scar]

The Egyptians divided the clock into 12 hours of daytime and 12 hours of night-time (or alternatively 10 hours between sunrise and sunset, an hour for each twilight period and 12 hours of darkness). This is known because of various sundials from the period which have been found to be marked with hours. Interestingly this means that hours started out changing in length with the seasons (as the amount of daylight vs. darkness changes).

There is a more in-depth explanation for the division of night-time into 12 hours which is based on the number of "decan" stars which were seen to rise during summer nights in Ancient Egypt. A "decan" star was a star which rose just before sunrise at the beginning of a 10-day "decade" in Ancient Egypt. 36 "decan" stars marked the passage of a year for the Egyptians (or 36 10 day periods). During summer nights, 12 decan stars rose - one for each "hour".


However, hours did not have a fixed length until the Greeks decided they needed such a system for theoretical calculations. Hipparchus proposed dividing the day equally into 24 hours which came to be known as equinoctial hours (because they are based on 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness on the days of the Equinoxes). Ordinary people continued to use the seasonally varying hours for a long time. Only with the advent of mechanical clocks in Europe in the 14th Century, did the system we use today become common place.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=594

 

[0scar]

Temporal hours were of little use to astronomers, and around 127 CE Hipparchus of Niceae, working in the great city of Alexandria, proposed dividing the day into 24 equinoctial hours. These equinoctial hours, so called because they are based on the equal length of day and night at the equinox, split the day into equal periods. (Despite his conceptual advance, ordinary people continued to use temporal hours for well over a thousand years: the conversion to equinoctial hours in Europe was made when mechanical, weight driven clocks were developed in the fourteenth century.)

http://africanhistory.about.com/od/egyptology/a/EgyptFatherOfTime_2.htm

 

[0scar]

Temporal hours were of little use to astronomers, and around 127 CE Hipparchus of Niceae, working in the great city of Alexandria, proposed dividing the day into 24 equinoctial hours. These equinoctial hours, so called because they are based on the equal length of day and night at the equinox, split the day into equal periods. (Despite his conceptual advance, ordinary people continued to use temporal hours for well over a thousand years: the conversion to equinoctial hours in Europe was made when mechanical, weight driven clocks were developed in the fourteenth century.)

http://africanhistory.about.com/od/egyptology/a/EgyptFatherOfTime_2.htm

the 24 hours time starting at midnigh and noon (12+12) was first proposed by 127 AD. that is 100 years after the Pasion of Christ. but it was adopted only 1.000 years later with the invention of the mechanical clocks.

 

[0scar]

siesta (n.) "mid-day nap," 1650s, from Spanish siesta, from Latin sexta (hora) "sixth (hour)," the noon of the Roman day (coming six hours after sunrise), from sexta, fem. of sextus "sixth" (see Sextus).
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=siesta&searchmode=none

si·es·ta [see-es-tuh]
a midday or afternoon rest or nap, especially as taken in Spain and Latin America.
Origin: 1645–55; < Spanish < Latin sexta ( hōra ) the sixth (hour), midday
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/siesta


the sixth hour is NOON

 

[Jacob]

When the Bible says noon, what time is it talking about?

The first instance of noon is:

Genesis 43:16 NASB - 16 When Joseph saw Benjamin with them, he said to his house steward, "Bring the men into the house, and slay an animal and make ready; for the men are to dine with me at noon."

 

[0scar]

When the Bible says noon, what time is it talking about?

The first instance of noon is:

Genesis 43:16 NASB - 16 When Joseph saw Benjamin with them, he said to his house steward, "Bring the men into the house, and slay an animal and make ready; for the men are to dine with me at noon."

John 19:14 says "sixth hour"

 

[Jacob]

John 19:14 says "sixth hour"

The NKJV does not say noon.